Addicted to Islam?

[Umar001]

Yea same here in the Uk, I mean being a black young revert matches all the catagories for a potential terrorist, only one being more convising is a young asian/pakistani male. But Alhamdulilah.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Welcome to the forums sis Chris(oh a rhyme!) lol
I read your first, its deep
Anyways I really hope u find what ur looking for, InshAllah.
If your considering Islam, please do not delay.
You never know when ur time may come.
Good luck!
Peace

 

[chris4336]

Can I just post an experience that happened to me tonight that pretty much sums up my experience with Islam?

I was feeling great, at peace, certain that I was getting closer to God...then I'm reading and I find a ruling that woman cannot initiate a divore from their husbands (but, obviously men can). I know its because of the financial responsibilties of the man...but come on.

I have come to terms with some of the major issues I used to have with Islam...the 4 wives, the "beating" verse, the hijab. But WHY is it always something? And its not just Islam...its every religion.

I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone but I'm really upset right now. Why does it feel like I have to give up so much of what I believe in to be accepted by god? How do you guys deal with these major issues in Islam - Sisters, do you in your heart find peace with the idea that if you are not happy in your marriage you cannot leave? Brothers would you really want your sister or mother sitting home alone with her children three nights a week because her husband is with his other wives? I know these are loaded issues and I don't want to start debates, just wondering if there is some way to find peace with these things (and other things that might seem wrong - such as slavery).

Also, do these scholars drive you nuts sometimes??? For every 100 how to make your husband happy lists out there I see mabye 1 about the wife. I actually read a ruling regarding a married man raping his wife??? How can this even be discussed if its commanded to treat them with kindness?

Perhaps its just very very hard for me to distinguish how Islam is supposed to be practices vs. how it is actually practiced.

I feel like I felt something and then it all just slips away.

Sorry to ramble, just kind of emotional right now and need to vent.

 

[جوري]

Yea same here in the Uk, I mean being a black young revert matches all the catagories for a potential terrorist, only one being more convising is a young asian/pakistani male. But Alhamdulilah.

lol... that was actually sort of funny in a dark comedy way imsad ...
it was Jesus peace be upon him who stated (what does it matter if you have gained the world but lost soul?)... I read that in the Arabic bible... I can't think of anything more applicable to today's society. does it really matter who thinks what of you so long as you have found your peace?

When people make hateful comments or give you funny looks, it is because they are uncomfortable with themselves and the world around them, not through any fault of your own. It is prejudices... YES, with all our technologies and advancements, people's brains can be quite primitive and instinctive... they feel threatened but can't get to the root of what threatens them.... It is a big bombastic thing the media creates, like a Pavlov experiment... they hear or see Muslim and it triggers a response, a primitive, ridiculous response.... it is unfortunate for them, because I believe they miss out on some great sincere people......

Not everyone is like that though, and I can see it even if it seems subtle, and negligable by all acounts... people who will not be willed by their govt into a particular thought, will in fact think for themselves and draw appropriate conclusions.......

Your reward is with the one who created you... and G-D must love you to have helped you find a way to him... hold your head high, and be proud of what you are, from your skin color to the religion you chose as a way of life. And never fear........ for G-D insh'Allah will always accompany you!


p.s my best wishes for the original poster, Insh'Allah may you find the right path...... and be an instrument to help those in need.....

I wasn't personally aware that a woman couldn't initiate a divorce? my uncle's wife initiated one, and they brought an imam who tried to make peace between them but it didn't work out, so he gave her one and left lots of things in her name including an Apt for her to live in since she didn't want to go back to her parent's house... ( eventually they got back together Al7mdlilah)

I think in Islam one assumes the best of/and from people but sadly people abuse it. Both men and women are equally guilty. Don't bother yourself with such peripheral details that hopefully will never apply to you.... every life is a subjective experience... live it the best you can.. Walk in the light of G-D and be the best chris you can be, and you will bear only that which your own hands have offered... you are not responsible for all of humanity...chris........ be well, I sincerely wish you the best.....
peace!

 

[chris4336]

Purest - Thanks for the PM, I cannot yet reply because I am not a full member but hopefully we can talk soon.

 

[جوري]

It is my pleasure....

they offer some good advise in that first Aid step up for USMLE... think it might be applicable here?

anyhow... just use your best judgement... ISlam is really easy and meant to help you in all facets of life... from the way you pray to hopefully the way you deal with your patients....

say have you ever wondered why scrubbing for surgery is so very similar to making abultion for prayers? I always found that fascinating? maybe surgeons borrowed a little ha? Think Islam prepares you for so much and Insh'Allah you will find your way to it...


peace!

 

[جوري]

Oh and Purest can I ask you a question...grrr this is so annoying that I can't PM you. But what do you make of the verse in Quran that says something about the male's fluid coming from between his back and ribs???? I tried to ask this question here but it got blocked, and I can't really find a satisfying answer.

I am not familiar with such a verse to be honest? maybe you can give me a verse number and a chapter, I'll ask a scholar for an informed response.......

you can have leaky fluids from the umblicus however with a urachus.........

Also when you read embryology you will find out the testes descend from the back to the front they actually hang in the beginning where your kidneys are.... in fact with some children who have mumps or are born prematurely they end up with undescended testes (cryptorchidsm )... in the fetus, the testes descend to the vicinity of the internal ring of the inguinal canal by approximately 28 weeks gestational age. Then, by about 29 weeks gestation, the testes descend into the scrotum. With testicular descent, the lining of the peritoneal cavity extends into the inguinal canal and scrotum. This peritoneal canal is referred to as the processus vaginalis. Each testis descends through the inguinal canal external to the processus vaginalis. In the female fetus, a similar mechanism with descent of the ovaries into the pelvis occurs. So they start from a different location than where they end... and obviousely that is where sperm is stored...

I am not sure if that is what you are asking though? please provide me with a chapter and verse number as I have a feeling the translation is probably misused by whomever is trying to misguide you... I am fluent in Arabic, and read the Quran daily obviousely especially in the month of Ramadan...so it is still fresh in my mind and I don't remember shrugging my shoulders or recoiling from an unusual verse... so perhaps something is lost to you in the translation all together?.... I am certain there is an answer here for you in the refutation section insha'Allah... or at least provide me with chapter and verse and I'll help you through it

peace chris =)

 

[starfortress]

Chris4336^^^

Hi
I suggesting you to read this explanation here about polygamy

When is Polygamy allowed in Islam

Islam does not allow marriage of multiple wives for males' sexual privileges and desires as Anti-Islamics claim. A normal man who makes enough money to keep him surviving in life can not provide a fair quality of life to all his wives, which means that he must not be allowed to marry multiple wives because he will only make his society worse.

Noble Verse 4:3 came to solve social problems. Unfortunately today, some Muslims intensify the Muslim's social problems in the Islamic poor countries by marrying multiple wives and bringing more and more illiterate and poor kids into the society which on the long run will only keep their entire society below the level of poverty. Therefore, Noble Verse 4:3 doesn't allow polygamy just for anyone or any reason and Noble Verse 4:129 certainly nullifies the excuse Allah Almighty gave to Muslim men to practice polygamy. Therefore, unless we have social or personal dilemmas where too many Muslim men were lost, or there is problems with the wife toward her husband, then polygamy should not be allowed nor justified in my Islamic view.

And Allah Almighty knows best, and may He forgive me if I made any mistakes in this article.

 

[al_yaziya]

Hello Christina,

Welcome to the forum . i understand what you are going through! i have recently within the last few months converted to islam, so if u have anything u need to talk about just let me know.

 

[rubiesand]

About women initiating divorce:

Islam does recognize the right of both partners to end their matrimonial relationship. Islam gives the husband the right for Talaq (divorce). Moreover, Islam, unlike Judaism, grants the wife the right to dissolve the marriage through what is known as Khula'..............

In the case of the wife choosing to end the marriage, she may return the marriage gifts to her husband. Returning the marriage gifts in this case is a fair compensation for the husband who is keen to keep his wife while she chooses to leave him. The Quran has instructed Muslim men not to take back any of the gifts they have given to their wives except in the case of the wife choosing to dissolve the marriage:

"It is not lawful for you (Men) to take back any of your gifts except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. There is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah so do not transgress them" (Quran 2:229).

Also, a woman came to the Prophet Muhammad seeking the dissolution of her marriage, she told the Prophet that she did not have any complaints against her husband's character or manners. Her only problem was that she honestly did not like him to the extent of not being able to live with him any longer. The Prophet asked her: "Would you give him his garden (the marriage gift he had given her) back?" she said: "Yes". The Prophet then instructed the man to take back his garden and accept the dissolution of the marriage (Bukhari).

In some cases, A Muslim wife might be willing to keep her marriage but find herself obliged to claim for a divorce because of some compelling reasons such as: Cruelty of the husband, desertion without a reason, a husband not fulfilling his conjugal responsibilities, etc. In these cases the Muslim court dissolves the marriage.

In short, Islam has offered the Muslim woman some unequalled rights: she can end the marriage through Khula' and she can sue for a divorce. A Muslim wife can never become chained by a recalcitrant husband. source


Christina, I worry about the sources you are reading from. What kind of a scholar is going to say that a woman cannot initiate divorce? When they can, and at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him), they did. You may be reading from a site that looks Islamic, but very likely what they are saying is not accepted by the vast majority of Muslims. A good mainstream source of info is islamonline.net. Here is a link to what they have to say on the question of women's right to divorce: here

 

[Malaikah]

To add to what sis rubiesand said, the following are also good websites for islamic knowledge:

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng
www.islamtoday.com

 

[Maimunah]

peace

please check out this site n amy help u find answers

http://www.muslim-answers.org/Introducing-Islam/miscons.htm

peace

 

[chris4336]

Thanks for those links...here is the link that I found (not quite sure how to do this yet)

Due to this spirit of Islam, Allah Most High granted the right of divorce to the husband and not the wife or any other third party. If one was to look at the verses in the Qur’an that deal with divorce, one will see that the address of divorce is directed to the husbands and not the wives.

And this is from http://qa.**************/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1841&CATE=11

How do you guys know who to believe?

 

[Malaikah]

Which website is it from? The wife certainly has a right to divorce, but the way a wife requests divorce is different to the way a husband does it, thats all.

We know who to believe by identifing who is following the way of the prophet pbuh. The prophet allowed women to divorce their husbands, therefore it is wrong for anyone to claim that women cannot initiate divorce.

It is also possible that you misunderstood what the website has actually said.

From the very link that you gave it said:

In conclusion, Shariah primarily give the unilateral right to divorce to the husband. However, under certain conditions, the wife also has a right to seek for the annulment of the marriage. This is the ruling that was chosen for us by our Creator and it is totally in accordance with logic, common sense and the betterment of the society as a whole.

So I think perhaps you did misunderstand. The right of divorce is the husbands, however the wife CAN also divorce her husband.

 

[Malaikah]

Khula’: definition and how it is done

Question:
What is khula and what is the correct procedure? If the husband does not want to divorce the wife, can the divorce still happen? What about in societies like America, where women who don’t like their husbands (in some case, because the husbands are religious). The women think that they have the freedom that if they don’t like the men, they can divorce them.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

Khula’ means the separation of the wife in return for a payment; the husband takes the payment and lets his wife go, whether this payment is the mahr which he gave to her, or more or less than that.

The basic principle concerning this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And it is not lawful for you (men) to take back (from your wives) any of your Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) which you have given them, except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allaah (e.g. to deal with each other on a fair basis). Then if you fear that they would not be able to keep the limits ordained by Allaah, then there is no sin on either of them if she gives back (the Mahr or a part of it) for her Al-Khul‘ (divorce)”

[al-Baqarah 2:229]

The evidence for that from the Sunnah is that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays ibn Shammaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not find any fault with Thaabit ibn Qays in his character or his religious commitment, but I do not want to commit any act of kufr after becoming a Muslim.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her, “Will you give back his garden?” Because he had given her a garden as her mahr. She said, “Yes.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Thaabit: “Take back your garden, and divorce her.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5273).

From this case the scholars understood that if a woman cannot stay with her husband, then the judge should ask him to divorce her by khula’; indeed he should order him to do so.

With regard to the way in which it is done, the husband should take his payment or they should agree upon it, then he should say to her “faaraqtuki” (I separate from you) or “khaala’tuki (I let you go), or other such words.

Talaaq (i.e., divorce) is the right of the husband, and does not take place unless it is done by him, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Talaaq is the right of the one who seizes the leg (i.e., consummates the marriage)” i.e., the husband. (Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 2081; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 2041).

Hence the scholars said that whoever is forced to divorce his wife by talaaq wrongfully, and divorces her under pressure, then his divorce is not valid. See al-Mughni, 10/352.

With regard to what you mention, that a woman in your country might arrange her own divorce through the man-made laws, if this is for a reason for which it is permissible to seek a divorce, such as disliking her husband, not being able to stay with him or disliking him because of his immoral ways and indulgence in haraam actions, etc., there is nothing wrong with her seeking divorce, but in this case she should divorce him by khula’ and return to him the mahr that he gave to her.

But if she is seeking divorce for no reason, then that is not permissible and the court ruling on divorce in this case does not count for anything in terms of sharee’ah. The woman still remains the wife of the man. This gives rise to a new problem, which is that this woman is regarded as a divorcee in the eyes of the (man-made) law, and can re-marry after her ‘iddah ends, but in fact she is still a wife and not a divorcee.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about a similar matter and said:

Now we have a problem. The fact that she is still married to him means that she cannot marry anyone else, but according to the court ruling she is apparently divorced from him, and when her ‘iddah ends she can re-marry. I think that the only way out of this problem is that good and righteous people should get involved in this matter, to bring about reconciliation between the man and his wife. Otherwise she has to give him some payment, so that it will be a proper shar’i khula’.

Liqa’ al-baab al-Maftooh by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, no. 54; 3/174.

Islam Q&A

 

[chris4336]

Right so my understanding of this is that the women ask...but the ultimate authority to initate divorce rests with the husbands.

And you, as a sister, feel that this ruling is completely understandable? If a sister is being beat by her husband, the judge orders the man to divorce her but he refuses then what?

I have read the arguments...that woman are more irrational, ect. I guess my question for all of you..Are there things you accept in Islam that you don't really agree with but accept because they are orders from God? This is really whats keeping me from Islam. Its hard when you learn for your whole life that woman should have the same rights as men, slavery is wrong, and homosexuals should be treated with respect...to leave ALL those beliefs behind. I know Islam gave women lots of rights, slavery was looked down up, but you still CANNOT get around the fact that men have more rights and that slavery is permitted in Quran. It requires a tremendous amount of faith I think to leave your old beliefs behind. People who are born Muslims do not have to struggle like this.

I have spent a lot of time looking for "proofs" in the Quran. If its from God who am I to argue? One of the things I like so much about Islam is that I can really see how its teachings, when PROPERLY put into practice can really help society. Prehaps I just do not fully understand all these rules.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings Chris,

Regarding that thread about the fluids coming from between the ribs, I believe it has been moved here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/32215-production-semen.html

I gave you some links in that thread where you can read more about the issue.

One thing to bear in mind is to take things one step at a time. If you take in everything at once, it might seem overwhelming for someone who has not experienced this before. Go for understanding the basics, and if you understand these well, this is enough to start implementing.

If we look at how the Qur'an was revealed and the life of the Prophet (peace be upon him), things occurred in stages. The early verses were those pertaining to belief in Allaah and strengthening the faith of the believers. Once their faith was firmly rooted, then came the more detailed laws and aspects of Islam. In this way, the laws were gradually revealed to allow people to adapt and take things slowly so as not to drive them away from the truth.

One beautiful example of this was the law for women to observe hijab - perhaps you have already read about this story. This law did not come immediately, but rather some time later when the Prophet (peace be upon him) had emigrated to Madinah. And such was the faith of the women that when the verse (24:31) was revealed, the women tore their aprons and covered themselves in obedience to Allah's Command.

So concentrate on the most important things first, because once you have found God and recognised Him as having the most perfect Knowledge and Wisdom, it will be easy for you to accept His commands and to strive for His sake. Perhaps by doing so, it will not feel like you are giving up what you believe in to be accepted, but rather through submission will be an acceptance on your part to answer His call to success:

Allâh calls to the home of peace (i.e. Paradise, by accepting Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds and abstaining from polytheism and evil deeds) and guides whom He wills to a Straight Path. [Qur'an, 10:25]

Peace.

P.S. We have a couple of threads about slavery here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-jurisprudence/24346-slavery-quran.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/5320-status-women-slavery-islam.html

 

[Malaikah]

And you, as a sister, feel that this ruling is completely understandable? If a sister is being beat by her husband, the judge orders the man to divorce her but he refuses then what?

If that is the case I dont think he has the right to refuse. In the article is said:

From this case the scholars understood that if a woman cannot stay with her husband, then the judge should ask him to divorce her by khula’; indeed he should order him to do so.

It said 'order'. You dont have much option when you are ordered to do something. right?

Are there things you accept in Islam that you don't really agree with but accept because they are orders from God?

Sometimes the only reason we dont agree with things is because we dont understand them. To be honest there were lots of things that confused me, but when I took the time to actually read up on the stuff and understand the wisdom behind everything, it makes more sense and I start to agree with it as well.

Alhamdilillah at the moment there is nothing I disagree with in Islam.

Its hard when you learn for your whole life that woman should have the same rights as men,

JUSTICE is not always the same as equality. You can have equality if you want, but that means we will have no justice. Which is more important? Of course justice is. Women and men are equal in many, many ways in islam. However, in somethings they are not equal and they can never be equal in these things, because if you made them equal then you would be treating the women with injustice!

This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when the speaker attributes this idea of equality to the Qur’aan and to Islam.

One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality”. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

Source (Read the full article, its pretty good).

slavery is wrong,

Inshaallah read up on slavery in Islam, and you will realise that even though it is permissible, there are sooooo many regulations on it. For example, you cant take a free person as a slave, only prisoners of war and stuff, and in reality its for there own good, what else are we gonna do with them? Slaves have so many rights in Islam, the western concept of slavery is just so different to the Islamic one.

and homosexuals should be treated with respect

Would you treat a murderer with respect? A theif? A racist? Homosexuality is a SIN just like any other sin, and there can be no respect for it.

but you still CANNOT get around the fact that men have more rights and that slavery is permitted in Quran.

Men also have many, many duties. Have you ever thought of that? Also, women have all the rights they need already. God will never treat His slaves with injustice. Please make sure you are reading from the proper source, NOT anti-islamic websites and stuff.

For example, check out this link and read the chapter about how a husband must treat his wife, you will see the rights that God has given women, and the magnitude of the duty that the husband has:
http://kalamullah.com/Books/The Ideal Muslim.pdf (page 48 of the pdf file)

It requires a tremendous amount of faith I think to leave your old beliefs behind. People who are born Muslims do not have to struggle like this.

But we are born into western societies, most of us anyway, and we are bombarded with such concepts too. So you are not alone. However, the point is that when you do your research properly, and you get your facts 100% right, you understand things more and you will know that you have the truth in your hands, and that everything else around you is a bunch of man-made lies, supported by none other than the devil himself.

One of the things I like so much about Islam is that I can really see how its teachings, when PROPERLY put into practice can really help society. Prehaps I just do not fully understand all these rules.

Thats good to hear. Hopefully you will soon be able to clear up all your misconceptions and will be ready to be become a Muslim. Ameen.

EDIT- also check out this post (post 13) about the rights/duties of men and women in Islam and how they compare to womens:
http://www.islamicboard.com/marriage-islam/27088-attributes-ideal-muslim-husband.html#post479120

Also, you might be interested in watching the video, "PERFECT JUSTICE: Debunking the Male Bias Myth":
http://kalamullah.com/yasir-qadhi.html

 

[chris4336]

Thanks SO MUCH for your reply. Helped me out a lot. Once I had the same issues with Hijab, but now I understand...hopefully these others things will become clear to me as well. Its good to know that some Muslims go through this as well. Hopefully my faith can be as strong as yours one day.

I'm not seeing the link on how the husband has to treat his wife??? I would be interested to read it.

I agree with the notion of the equality and justice...but in that link there are still some phrases that I don't agree with for example:

because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other’ i.e., because men are superior to women and are better than women.

I don't think the Quran states men are "superior" than woman, rather they excel in certain areas - strength for example and this cannot be denied. And I really don't think that men are smarter than woman, as the article claims, nor do I think that Allah says this in Quran. I guess here my problem here is NOT with the Quraric verse, rather the interpretation.

Thanks a lot and hopefullly I will grow in faith and gain more wisdom to deal with stuff like this better

 

[- Qatada -]

Try checking these lectures out:


http://www.islamicboard.com/marriag...-wife-muhammad-al-shareef-audio-lecture.html?


And also women's rights in islaam by yusuf estes: [he clears lots of misconceptions regarding the 'beating' verse etc. and also aspects such as divorce. Download the one called 'womens rights']

http://www.islamicboard.com/560689-post2.html



One more point i want to clarify is that when islaam came, slavery was so common, as common as we see people selling on the shopping channel. There are many, many ahadith which tell people to free slaves, and the huge reward in return for that. As brother Muhammad said, this slavery couldn't be removed altogether, and therefore had to be done in stages. We know that if a person sins, the expiation for that may be to 'free a slave' whereas in another form of expiation may be to 'free a believing slave.'


I really think you should check this small article on slavery in islaam, because it cleared alot of my misconceptions too alhamdulillah (praise be to Allaah):

The Islamic position on Slavery: A refutation of doubts



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.