Alternative mosque?

[glo]

But now I am made aware of a report about this this group operating in own my backyard that I could possibly do something about it. Thank you Glo.

Those are my thoughts too.

I think it is important to understand what different perceptions (or misconceptions) are floating around in the world about our faiths and our beliefs and our way of life. That's how we know how to defend ourselves and our faith, and how to formulate counterarguments and explain to outsiders.

I appreciated brother ibṉĀdam moving the thread to the Clarifications about Islam section - that's where misconceptions can be clarified and rectified.

 

[Futuwwa]

Do you seriously think the people doing this have ulterior motives?

I see it as a sign of them having taqwa and iman.

If they were selfish people following their whims and desires, they'd take the easy way out and simply ditch Islam altogether and embrace the secular, socially liberal mainstream society. There's no shortage of born Muslims who have become lukewarm at best, renouced their religion at worst, and done that. They'd fit right in and disappear into the crowd.

Instead, they are doing something that will be guaranteed to draw the ire of the Muslim mainstream... and for what possible motivation of self-interest? Do you honestly think there's a secret cabal of NWO conspirators who secretly back them and reward them handsomely for helping corrupt Muslims? ^o)

These people feel rejected and unwelcome by the Muslim mainstream, but still they won't let go of Islam but keep on struggling. That's taqwa. They may be misguided, but it's better to be an imperfect and misguided Muslim than one not at all.

 

[Insaanah]

There is no taqwa in disobedience to Allah and His Messenger :saws:

It may be helpful to know what taqwa is. These are two very brief links.

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=82493
http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/7947

 

[Futuwwa]

I doubt they think they disobey either.

 

[Hulk]

Do you seriously think the people doing this have ulterior motives?

I see it as a sign of them having taqwa and iman.

If they were selfish people following their whims and desires, they'd take the easy way out and simply ditch Islam altogether and embrace the secular, socially liberal mainstream society. There's no shortage of born Muslims who have become lukewarm at best, renouced their religion at worst, and done that. They'd fit right in and disappear into the crowd.

Instead, they are doing something that will be guaranteed to draw the ire of the Muslim mainstream... and for what possible motivation of self-interest? Do you honestly think there's a secret cabal of NWO conspirators who secretly back them and reward them handsomely for helping corrupt Muslims?

These people feel rejected and unwelcome by the Muslim mainstream, but still they won't let go of Islam but keep on struggling. That's taqwa. They may be misguided, but it's better to be an imperfect and misguided Muslim than one not at all.

Read back what you have just said brother, taqwa and imaan comes from from having knowledge and humility. Does this movement reflect that to you? What is questionable is their intention, that doesn't mean someone is backing them up to "corrupt muslims".

Where is the humility in championing a so called cause claiming insinuating that all others are unwelcoming? There is no adab in such things. As I have said if they were truly sincere they would approach mosques to discuss such matters. As far as I am aware there are no mosques that says "ONLY STRAIGHT MALES ALLOWED".

Their leaders are taking advantage of those who might perhaps feel unwelcome.

 

[Insaanah]

If they were selfish people following their whims and desires, they'd take the easy way out and simply ditch Islam altogether and embrace the secular, socially liberal mainstream society. There's no shortage of born Muslims who have become lukewarm at best, renouced their religion at worst, and done that. They'd fit right in and disappear into the crowd.

Muslims can also follow their whims and desires for shaytaan can come to anyone. It doesn't mean that if a Muslim claims to remain a Muslim, that he/she is not following his/her whims and desires. Muslims can convince themselves they are doing something noble and righteous, even if it in blatant opposition to Allah and His Messenger :saws:.

These people feel rejected and unwelcome by the Muslim mainstream, but still they won't let go of Islam but keep on struggling. That's taqwa.

No it isn't. Being unwelcome is merely a guise. Let's assume that that's all it is, that they're unwelcome elsewhere. If that was the case they'd get their own premises/room, and have all the men in the rows at the front, the women in the rows behind, and the male imam leading. But they're not doing that. Their agenda, as per their own website, is gender "justice", and to reform Islam, amongst other things.

They say in their own words that they stand for the exact opposite of most mosques, for gender "justice" (Allah and His prophet :saws: having taught us gender injustice astaghfirullah), for the "reform" of Islam, and "democratisation" of the Qur'an.

The fact that we stand for the exact opposite of the mosques I have known

And it does not conduct salaah in languages that only one culture can understand.

I wanted to find a non-Traditional (and hence non-dogmatic) space to meet my needs for spirituality

This democratisation of Quran reading would facilitate the reform of Islam.

[and to be] be able to worship with him in a mixed prayer space

http://www.inclusivemosqueinitiative.org/faq.htm

They may be misguided, but it's better to be an imperfect and misguided Muslim than one not at all.

There's a difference between being imperfect, and between blatantly opposing Allah and His messenger :saws: legislation, and seeking to change/reform the faith which Allah perfected for us, and to "democratise" His word.

If you are a non-Muslim, everybody knows you are, but when you try to change Islam from "within", and portray it as the right path, and misguide others towards it, that seems worse.

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.
Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray.
And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.
So how [will it be] when disaster strikes them because of what their hands have put forth and then they come to you swearing by Allah , "We intended nothing but good conduct and accommodation."
These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them an effective word to reach their innerselves. (4:59-63)

Say: Shall We inform you who will be the greatest losers by their works? Those whose effort goes astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work. (18:103-104)

Then We put you, [O Muhammad], on an ordained way concerning the matter [of religion]; so follow it and do not follow the inclinations of those who do not know. (45:15)

We have an ordained way in Islam and whoever seeks to change that is going far astray, regardless of how "good" the intention.

May Allah guide them back to the right path, ameen, and may He save them from misguiding and misleading others, ameen.

 

[MustafaMc]

They say in their own words that they stand for the exact opposite of most mosques, for gender "justice" (Allah and His prophet having taught us gender injustice astaghfirullah), for the reform of Islam, and "democratisation" of the Qur'an.

In actuality they stand for the liberalization of Islam and to destroy it piece by piece from within.

 

[جوري]

In actuality they stand for the liberalization of Islam and to destroy it piece by piece from within.

Liberalization using an already faulty premise. We've to subscribe to the western definition of what is good and right and then acquiesce to it and change the religion to please them. These are traitors and hypocrites as stated prior far worse than a defined enemy!

Thanks but no thanks!

 

[Signor]

Peace be with you Glo

Besides this reply:

I think it is important to understand what different perceptions (or misconceptions) are floating around in the world about our faiths and our beliefs and our way of life. That's how we know how to defend ourselves and our faith, and how to formulate counterarguments and explain to outsiders.

I don't know why you posted this thread here.There was a thread made back in days in which similar issues were raised by you.Perhaps,you couldn't get sufficient answers and If you don't Would you like to get clarified on the topics like homosexuals in mosques or Islamic view of Homosexuality or Women prayers in mosques?However,other than that,I want to know where you are coming from?

Regards

 

[glo]

I don't know why you posted this thread here.

Wow, that's an old thread. Thanks for finding it!
Sadly I see that it got out of hand in the end and had to be closed. ^o)

Interestingly I didn't think that homosexuality was the main element of this article. I certainly did not intend to start another lengthly discussion about it. It has a tendency to turn nasty ...

I just raised the fact that this movement does exist and wondered if people had heard about it.

I understand from the thread so far that the conservative Muslim perception is that openly homosexual people and women leading prayers and men and women praying alongside each other in masjids is a no no. I also understand from the article that not all Muslims think that way.

I appreciate hearing people's thoughts and views about it. So thanks for sharing.

 

[Insaanah]

I understand from the thread so far that the conservative Muslim perception is that openly homosexual people and women leading prayers and men and women praying alongside each other in masjids is a no no. I also understand from the article that not all Muslims think that way.

I appreciate hearing people's thoughts and views about it.

At the end of the day, what matters is not what people think, but what Allah and His Prophet (may the peace and salutations of Allah be upon him) have legislated. Even if most Muslims thought it was ok, it would not make it ok. Our religion comes not from people's beliefs or what people think, but from the Qur'an and sunnah.

In Islam, how we should pray has been taught to us right down to the last detail. There is no room for inventing one's own method.

Unlike other religions, in Islam, the truth is one, and the truth is clear, and distinct from falsehood. Praise be to Allah.

 

[faithandpeace]

At a meeting in a basement in north London, the evening prayer led by a woman has just finished.

Those present are now involved in a discussion on Islam and why people choose to stay with it, despite the negative press it gets.

This already sounds outside the fold of Islam. Why would Muslims discuss why they choose to stay with Islam despite negative press? A Muslim should insha'Allah understand that Islam comes from Allah (swt) and is based on the Qur'an and the following of the ways of the Prophet (pbuh). Islam is not based on what non-Muslims in the media have to say about Islam.

It is the initiative of a group of Muslims who want to open alternative mosques in the UK that would allow men and women to pray side-by-side and welcome gay people.

I do not understand this Western agenda to constantly need members of the opposite sex mixing with each other for no logical reason. It doesn't make any sense and is outright ridiculous. Furthermore, masjids as far as I am aware already do welcome everyone as a masjid is a "House of Allah (swt)" and a place of prayer. As long as Muslims (and non-Muslims who wish to visit) conduct themselves appropriately in the masjid, nobody should be prying into people's personal sins or issues as they are between them and Allah (swt). There can be a President of a nation praying directly next to an ex-convict. Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam but if someone is a homosexual then it is between them and Allah (swt). There may be Muslims who drink alcohol or gamble. Why does this need to be an issue inside the masjid? It sounds to me like people want public acceptance of things that are not part of Islam and therefore are trying to rebrand Islam into something that it is not. They then have left the fold of Islam and are no longer Muslims.

The Inclusive Mosque Initiative (IMI) was set up in November last year.

[...]

Although they have a small following in the UK, it is part of a growing global network with sites in Srinagar in India and Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia.

They also have support networks in the US, Canada, South Africa, Australia and Sweden. Their ultimate aim is to set up a network of international mosques.

Masjids already are "inclusive" and "international." As a new revert, I haven't been to masjid a whole lot but I do know people from many different countries go to the masjids I have attended. And it seems like most people go there to pray and leave. I don't understand what has to be made so complicated about it.

Ms Tauqir knows that their actions could be seen to be provocative.

She said: "In some people's view it is controversial. For us what we are trying to do is to create a space that is welcoming.

Welcoming of unIslamic behavior. Bars, casinos, and prostitution houses are also welcoming environments. They aren't of course Islamic.

"We want to show the mainstream community that we are not all extremists, we are a variety of people."

And this proves the agenda all along--to define Islam as extremist and then invent a new system that co-opts some Islamic values, ideas, and practices, dilute them, and mix them with secular Western Christian capitalist values, and then relabel it the new Islam. They are threatened by Islam and wish to destroy it through distortions and dilutions. The agenda is very clear to me. In the West, it is "cool" to be Muslim as long as you still party and drink, dress Western, and prioritize pop cultural entertainment over fasting and prayer. If you pray five times per day, read Qur'an, and truly try to live Islamically, then you must be a "radical extremist." And I'm really getting tired of how so many people are so saturated by all the nonsense on television. They can fight Islam all they want but in the end, the truth will ultimately prevail. Allah (swt) knows best.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Although they have a small following in the UK, it is part of a growing global network with sites in Srinagar in India and Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia.

I have been living in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, for more than a year now. No, I haven't heard of such a thing. The other brothers and sisters have supplied ample links to evidence of what's wrong with that movement. Here's my personal take on the matter:

Allah has already completed our religion for us. Allah does not lie and Allah is All-Knowing. So anyone who thinks that Islam needs to be modified, or needs to be reformed or needs to be modernized is simply saying that Allah did not tell the truth and Allah is not All-Knowing.

Seriously speaking, is homosexuality a modern phenomenon? Anyone who thinks so definitely has very, very little knowledge of history. Allah created man. And Allah created woman. So Allah knows best what man and woman should do. Anyone who thinks that he is more knowledgeable than Allah needs to have his head examined.

 

[~Zaria~]

Allah (subhanawata'la) and His beloved prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) has warned us of deviations, innovations and sects that will infiltrate this ummah.

How early in the noble quraan are we reminded of the following people, from amongst our ummah:

"And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.
They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.

And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.

And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not......" (Surat Al Baqarah 8-13)


Our prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) also reminded us:

‘My ummah will divide into 73 sects. All of them will be in Hell except for one’. The sahabah said,
'Which group will that be?’ Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) replied, ‘Those who are on my and my companions way.’ (Tirmizi vol. 2 pg. 89)


In other words, what we are seeing today (as described by our prophet sallalhu alaihi wasalam) is to be expected.

(Which would probably also explain groups such as this: How to take Bayaah via the net and photo: http://www.sheiknazim2.com/Bayyath.html)


In todays age, where the world has become a global community, and information is a mouse-click away, we need to be especially heedful, of holding fast to the teachings of quraan and sunnah.
We need to realise that while it is very easy nowadays to find an interpretation/ ruling courtesy of 'Shaykh Google', we can very easily land onto a deviant site and be misled, ourselves, in this manner.

So, we too, should realise how precious our imaans are and how easily our hearts can be turned away from Allah and His messenger (sallahu alaihi wasalam) - if we do not protect and cherish it as the most important blessing in our lives, and if we are not wary that Shaytaan can mislead us in very many ways as well.

May Allah keep make as all from the group who are saved from these sorts of deviations,that lead to jahannum.

آمين يا رب العالمين

 

[greenhill]

I see 3 main areas,

1) The rule of Allah through the messages of the prophet s.a.w. remains unchangeable.
2) Western(?) agenda trying to change it
3) Sympathisers?

We must remember that Allah works in mysterious ways. He tests us in many ways, through good AND bad. Temptations in so many different ways, and almost impossible to have all our nafs under control. Arrogance was the cause of the downfall of Satan. To blatantly disregard the words because of one's impression of self worth is a heinous crime in the Eyes of Allah s.w.t. like that circled picture of the woman praying amongst the men.

At the end of the day, it boils down to two halves, people who submit or people who do not. I'm not defining it by believers or not. You can believe but do not submit. If you submit, you HAVE to act. At least begin to act and build from it. Never stop. And, be patient in the endeavour.

To conclude I would refer to a line in surah al Fatihah, 'waladdooleeen' or those who go astray. We want 'ihdana siraatal mustaqeem' and the ensuing line.

Peace

 

[Genesis]

Why just Islam and Christianity? Why not Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism and everything else as well ?

 

[Karl]

Obviously a very mixed up woman. She is an assistant professor but still a fool.