America: Is It Reaping What It Has Sown?

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i think at the very least, we will reap bankruptcy from our insane wars. but i am no expert in economics.

Economically, the war is the beginning of the end for the American dollar. This war, which was proposed to be a slam-dunk, pre-emptive strike that will only cost the taxpayers a few billion dollars, has now exceeded $2 trillion. As of today, the war in Iraq alone is costing 8 billion a day. Based on the projection that this “War on Terror” might continue for another 20 years, coupled with the devaluation of the U.S. dollar, it is understood that the future costs of this war will eventually bankrupt our country.

The taxpayer is paying to have our honorable military forces blow up another nation’s infrastructure and then pay to have private U.S. contractors rebuild that infrastructure - while our bridges and highways at home are falling apart.

The expense of this endless war has greatly inflated the price of energy and the overall cost of living. This war has also desecrated the priceless commodity of families all over the world through the countless deaths of loved ones.

Economically, the longer we wage war, the further down we go. Those that don't wish to see will be forced to feel it's effect when the stock market collapses....which, in my estimation, is just around the corner.
 
nations rise and fall... i feel like american democracy is a noble idea... and perhaps the idea will survive. but americans worshipped their idea too much... and in time began to worship themselves... that is why america cannot recognize when it hurts other people.

nations rise and fall... things will be okay in the long run.
 
you speak with the conviction of a person trying to convince people she is convinced, so i do not expect you to be hypercritical of islam's wars and abuses of human dignity. we will have divergent opinions on that topic often i would imagine... we shall see though.
When I speak out about these issues it is from the gut because I spend a lot of time exercising so much self control in order to be diplomatic in my professional life. I started waking up to the truth about US foreign policy about halfway through undergrad studies and by the time I was deep in grad work I wished I had never learned any of it. I remember one course in particular. It was a very reading intense course in Indigenous Cultures of Latin America and the Caribbean. Of course, you can't study those cultures without finding out a whole bunch of stuff about US foreign policy and corporate takeovers of indigenous lands, massacres of indigenous people, etc... I was about halfway through the course and was reading yet another article on oil corporations in the Amazon. I was sitting at my desk and looked at the pile of articles I had already read -- it was probably 6 inches high and I wasn't even halfway through the course yet. I remember throwing the article down on my desk and shoving the whole pile of into the floor. Very few times in my life have I ever wishes so passionately that I could turn back time. I didn't want to know any of it. I wished I could go back and major in business or music education or something. Why oh why did I take this direction? Why couldn't I just be a banker?

I had a few days where I couldn't read anything. But then I picked the work back up and kept on going. Now I can't stop reading. I have an Amazon.com credit card and if I don't go to the library at least twice a week I think they'd probably call me to see if I was okay. Not really... that's just a joke. But the point is I just keep reading and reading and watching documentaries and staying up nights and getting so mad and angry and heart broken and furious and sometimes I just dispair and cry and cry until my husband makes me watch cartoons with him or takes me out somewhere.

Then I lighten up and read something on religion for a while before I go back to stories of Haiti or Chile or the Mayans or any kind of social justice issues and grassroots development, poverty issues etc.. Right now, my husband and I are in the states for a while because we have some things to take care of before we go back to our project in Haiti. Meanwhile I get calls a lot. One of our friends' husband just died and left her with 4 kids, and she's disabled and the hurricane damaged her house... someone else is about to have a baby and doesn't have money to pay a midwife... its the dry season and kids are getting sick a lot... somebody's baby died... things like that. When we're there I miss being here but when I'm here I can't rest for not being there.

I think it's really really crazy to draw an imaginary line around an area and start shooting your neighbor and taking the things they need to live -- their things. It is not only crazy, it has results and it's the results I can't stop thinking about. Because those results are real people to me. Some of them are people I know by name and love a lot... people I miss a lot and worry about. But I think about the ones I don't know by name too. When I see these smarta** comments on here and all the ignorant insults and people trying to change the subject or defend tyranny I am thinking about a man in a dishdasha carrying a dead and bloody child down the street at a full on run with his mouth open in the way that makes you understand that his cries are coming from a place so deep that few of us can ever know it. That's what Im thinking about a large percentage of my waking hours. I'm "ate up" as my daughter so aptly puts it. And I imagine I always will be. I'll probably be thinking of that man on my death bed and wondering if anything I did or said made a difference.

And so when I finally do let go and speak the truth it's hard not to be harsh and cynical and railing because I am so outraged I can barely breath. And not just sometimes -- I'm outraged all the time. And the way I feel sitting here in my nice little ranch home with carpets and electricity and heat and water any time I want it... sitting here feeling so safe and far from harm's way. I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to be an Iraqi or a Mayan, or a Palestinian, or a Haitian, or that man in the dishdasha. And I understand even less how anyone could know any of these things and not be "ate up" over it. I'll probably NEVER understand that as long as I live.
 
When I speak out about these issues it is from the gut because I spend a lot of time exercising so much self control in order to be diplomatic in my professional life. I started waking up to the truth about US foreign policy about halfway through undergrad studies and by the time I was deep in grad work I wished I had never learned any of it. I remember one course in particular. ....
I can empathize with what you must be feeling, but I can see that the degree of your inner misery over the suffering of others is much greater. I am certain that you see more clearly than most all Americans.

I recently read an enlightening book, "The Shock Doctrine, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein. Perhaps you too have read it. This book clearly shows that our invasion of Iraq had less to do with WMD or, when they were not found "Iraqi Freedom", than the privitization and exploitation of their national resources (oil). I now see USA as less of a democratic and more of a capitalist country than I did before reading this book.
 
how comes whenever i say anything in the world affairs section its either to tell people to calm down or to close a thread:(

peoples dont go off topic, otherwise the thread will just have to be closed . . . . and respect each other, also conspriracy theories are not approved off, so stop posting them

capiche:D
 
As I have indicated, what USA is spreading throughout the world is not "democracy", but rather "capitalism". The true reaping of what America is presently sowing will not come until the collapse of the capitalist system. The hoarding of the world's wealth by a very few extraordinarily rich people comes at the expense of suffering for the masses. This trend cannot continue indefinitely.

The American populace has yet to suffer the consequences of this economic system. I believe that an economic meltdown now will make the Great Depression of the 1930's look like "a walk in the park". I don't believe that America will suffer a foreign takeover or even significant foreign terroristic attacks, rather I believe that America will collapse from within. That is when America will reap what it has sown around the world.
 
Economically, the war is the beginning of the end for the American dollar.

No it isn't. That is just Chicken Little hysteria. The dollar is under pressure because dollar-denominated investments aren't quite as attractive as they were before the dollar fell relative to other currencies. The value of the dollar isn't by itself a marker for US economic health. Despite the real-estate crunch and inflationary pressure fro high energy prices, the US economy is still growing and productivity is increasing. Perhaps it would be pleasurable for you to see the US in economic distress and there is bound to be a recession at some point, that is the way business cycles work, but your doomsday scenario is economic nonsense.

This war, which was proposed to be a slam-dunk, pre-emptive strike that will only cost the taxpayers a few billion dollars

Nobody ever said that. We will wait while you try to find a source.

...[the war] has now exceeded $2 trillion.

I have heard estimates as high as that but only including lifetime health and disability costs for soldiers and Marines and Iraq reconstruction costs.

As of today, the war in Iraq alone is costing 8 billion a day.

Hmmmm? $8 billion a day...365 days in a year...8 times 5 is 40, carry the four.....<comes back 3 minutes later>.......why, that is almost $ 3 Trillion dollars a year :omg: Something is amiss here.
The taxpayer is paying to have our honorable military forces blow up another nation’s infrastructure.....

Ummmm...no they aren't. The last time US forces did any significant damage to "Iraqi" infrastructure was when they blew up the farmhouse that Al Zarqawi was cowering in.

.... while our bridges and highways at home are falling apart.

Look, weren't you one of the Ron Paul supporters? Do you realize Libertarians don't believe in Federal spending on transportation? If a bridge in Minnesota needs to be fixed...let them do it.

The expense of this endless war has greatly inflated the price of energy and the overall cost of living.

Iraqi oil production is at pre-war levels (counting the cheating that was going on under the leaky UN sanction program). Global production is up since 2003. Please explain to us, then, why energy prices have gone up do to the war.


Economically, the longer we wage war, the further down we go. Those that don't wish to see will be forced to feel it's effect when the stock market collapses....which, in my estimation, is just around the corner.

Thankfully, you are not Chairman of the Fed Banking Committee as your knowledge of how an economy works seems a bit superficial.
 
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I love when people act as though the US invented war.

Especially when they act as though its always without positive externalities.
 
how comes whenever i say anything in the world affairs section its either to tell people to calm down or to close a thread:(

peoples dont go off topic, otherwise the thread will just have to be closed . . . . and respect each other, also conspriracy theories are not approved off, so stop posting them

capiche:D

and what, pray tell, are you defining as "conspiracy theories"... please let us know the viewpoints that are censored here.
 
Why should the U.S. be the only country with a spotlight on it for "reaping what is sewn?" There is alot of reaping and alot of sewing in the world. Believe it or not the decisions of George W. Bush aren't the only ones that have cause and effect.

As to the basic health of American democracy, I would think we're in a little bit of a funk....Jimmy Carter would probably call it a "malaise". Neither political party makes Americans happy anymore, and the Congress seems incapable of tackling the issues that are really important. Of course that is probably the way the founding fathers envisioned it anyway.

Alot of doom sayers are going to be disappointed when they are 65 and the U.S. is still here and moving right along. Of course they might also be disappointed when they learn all the money they paid into the social security system is gone....but that is another story.
 
The United States has created many enemies through its policies in the Middle East over the past century and bears a significant amount of responsibility for creating a fertile soil for anti-American hatred. Any American response that does not address this truth is doomed to further the cycle of violence.

Most of what is regurgatated in the US are reports of a shadowy Islamic conspiracy against the U.S. led by Osama bin Laden, which have, in turn, generated a steady stream of cliché's about this new enemy and its hatred of the U.S. Unfortunately, precious little light has been shed on understanding why this is happening and what exactly Muslims believe.

Bin Laden declared was on the US in his famous declaration of war in 1996. The US took a while to return the favour, but they eventually did in 2001.

Any explanation of Middle Eastern violence that relies upon the notion that Islam is an inherently violent or inherently anti-Western religion is false and misleading. First, Islam is one of the world's largest and most diverse religions and like Christianity or Judaism there are thousands of views within Islam about the religion and also about violence and the West. Secondly, there are major differences even among explicitly Muslim militants and activists regarding these issues-some insist upon non-violent struggle and others regard violence as a legitimate tool. There is no way one can generalize about Islam or any religion for that matter.

This is exactly the position of the United States government. The official position is that Islam is a religion of peace (remember Bush visiting that mosque mere days after 9/11) and that it has merely been hijacked by extremists. Thats exactly why the US has so many Muslim allies in it's 'war on terror'. You have simply erected a straw man here and do yourself make gross generalization about American opinion. In essence you are doing here to the US what you decry others doing to Islam.

Last week on Meet The Press, Tim Russert was interviewing presidential candidate Ron Paul and when Paul told Tim that we should look at the reasons behind the attacks on the US, Tim became upset and tried to imply that just by looking at the reason we were attacked-- at the motivations, he was somehow unpatriotic and unamerican. Paul stood his ground and had to remind him of our history and involvement in the Middle East. Is that because Russert doesn't know? Of course not, it's because no American wants to admit that we are now experiencing a by-product of what we created years ago. Which was a US backed war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980's.

It's because the majority disagree, not because they willfully refuse to see this 'truth'. Plenty believe US action in the region have contributed to the current conflict. In fact, I would dare to say this is the majority opinion among foreign policy analysts. But of course, it is so much more complex then that. After all, this is more then a simplistic conflict of the West vs Islam. The Islamic world is essentially in a civil war. Moderates vs fundamentalists, secular vs religious. The majority dying in this conflict are Muslims killed by fellow Muslims. One side considers the others collaborators/stooges/puppets/munafiq or terrorists/extremists/rebels. In 2001 the US simply chose sides.

OBL and others were recruited by the CIA, Saudi Arabia and Pakistani intelligence services to fight against the Soviet Union during the 1980's. They came largely from the poor and unemployed classes or militant opposition groups from around the Middle East, including Algeria, Egypt, Palestine and elsewhere in order to wage war on behalf of the Muslim people of Afghanistan against the communist enemy. OBL played an important role in helping these groups recruit volunteers and build extensive networks of bases in Pakistan and Afghanistan after 1984. He was a HERO when he was doing the US's bidding for us.

Bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri have always vehemently denied this interpretation of history btw. Besides, weren't you claiming all Americans are stupid and fail to see that Islam is not an "anti-Western religion"? Clearly noone in the American government considered the Muhajedeen a threat when they supported them in Afghanistan against the USSR.

This is where Americans don't do their homework. Even after the last two videos that OBL put out and detailed all of this information, Americans still refuse to listen to what our government has done and what WE are responsible for. OBL and his groups, at that time, also served another purpose for the U.S. and its allies in the region. Not only were they anti-Communist due to their rejection of its atheism, they were also opposed to the brand of Islamic radicalism promoted by the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran (Khomeini); largely because it was based on Shiite rather than Sunni Islamic doctrine. The revolution had toppled a major ally of the U.S., the Shah of Iran, who played a major role as a pillar of U.S. hegemony in the oil rich Persian Gulf and was threatening key U.S. allies such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other oil rich states. Therefore, the clear aim of U.S. foreign policy therefore was to kill two birds with one stone: turn back the Soviet Union and create a counter-weight to radical Iranian inspired threats to U.S. interests, particularly U.S. backed regimes who controlled the massive oil resources.

Because we wanted to "have our cake and eat it too", our foreign policy in the Middle East has turned into a nightmare for the us and is exactly what led to the attacks in New York and Washington D.C. After the Soviets were defeated in Afghanistan in 1989 the "Afghan" network became expendable to the U.S. who no longer needed their services. And as you can see, we have actively turned against these groups after the Gulf War when a number of those groups returned home and moved into the violent opposition against U.S. allied regimes and opposed the U.S. war against Iraq in 1991.

In short, they are particularly opposed to the unprecedented positioning of U.S. ground troops in Saudi Arabia on the land of the Islamic holy sites of Mecca and Medina. If you follow the intelligence agencies at all you will find that in the past decade there has been a vicious war in the region between the CIA and its allies and militant Muslim groups. The U.S. trains Egyptian police torture techniques. Moreover, the CIA has sent snatch squads to abduct wanted militants form Muslim countries and return them to their countries to face almost certain death and imprisonment.

The primary belief of the veterans of the Afghanistan war is that the West, led by the United States, is now waging war against Muslims around the world and now have to defend themselves by any means necessary, including violence and terrorism. They point to a number of cases where Muslims have born the brunt of violence as evidence of this war: the Serbian and Croation genocide against Bosnian Muslims, the Russian war in Chechnya, the Indian occupation of Kashmir, the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands, the UN sanctions against Iraq and the U.S. backing of dictatorships in Algeria, Egypt or Saudi Arabia, for example. They claim that the US either supported the violence or failed to prevent it. In almost all of these cases, they are correct. It is these beliefs, not to mention the fact that we've been bombing the Middle East for the last ten year and continue to keep adding more military bases over there, that enable them to justify not only targeting U.S. military facilities but also its civilians. And we sit here scratching our heads and wondering why? The "why" is clear for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. There is no question that the one-sided U.S. support for Israel, the U.S. sponsorship of sanctions against Iraq as well as U.S. support for dictatorships across the region have created a fertile ground for some sympathy with such militancy.

Osama bin Laden is not the only mastermind of these attacks as is often claimed in the media; he just facilitates these groups and sentiments with logistics and finances, as do others. He is simply a very visible symbol of this loose network and the U.S. obsession with him most likely works to increase his standing as an icon of resistance to the U.S. A rational person would ask themselves, why he was considered a Hero in the 80's and now considered, by the very government who helped him with training, armaments and finances, the antichrist of the 21st century.

The real problem is that the US refuses to address the root causes of anti-American sentiments in the region. Moreover, the U.S appears to have no long-term strategy to address the sources of grievances that the radical groups share with vast majority of Muslim activists who abhor using violent methods that would include, for starters, a more balanced approach to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, ending the sanctions on Iraq, moving U.S. military bases out of Saudi Arabia, and supporting the legitimate aspirations of regional peoples for democracy and human rights. Legitimate meaning, the majority of the people want and ask for help; not butting your head into a country's affairs when none is warranted and attempting to install your form of government under the banner of "helping" and "nation building" and "democracy" ad nasueum, when all you are really interested in is OIL and contracts.

I don't really disagree with up to this point, though you seem to be contradicting yourself here. First you make abundantly clear that the Afghan Muhajedeen were supported by the US for geo-political reasons, namely to defeat the USSR and create a counter-force to the Iranian regime. Now all of a sudden "it's all about oil"?

Besides, even if Bin Laden has all kind of desires to expel us from the Arabian peninsula and whatnot. Who is he to demand that? Does he represent the Muslim people? Does he represent any legitimate government? I also want many things, that doesn't mean I expect people to listen to me. The US had the authorization from internationally recognized government of Saudi Arabia to station troops there. The real issue here is private organizations, without any kind of public mandate or official status, demanding things which they really are not in a position to demand.

What truly aggrevates me and the Muslim people I know are the US's double standards. The U.S. claims that it must impose economic sanctions on certain countries that violate human rights and/or harbor weapons of mass destruction. Yet the U.S. largely ignores Muslim victims of human rights violations in Palestine, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kashmir and Chechnya.

I think they disagree about that in Bosnia and Kosovo to be honest. Bush is actually most popular among Albanians! Besides, I thought your main complaints was that the US meddles too much in other countries affairs. Lets not get started on Palestine and Kashmir, those issues are so complex hardly any country that is not directly involves knows what to think about it.

What's more, while the U.S. economy is propped up by weapon sales to countries around the globe and particularly in the Middle East, the U.S. insists on economic sanctions to prevent weapon development in Libya, Sudan, Iran and Iraq. In Iraq, the crippling economic sanctions cost the lives of 5,000 children, under age five, every month. Over one million Iraqis have died as a direct result of over a decade of sanctions. Also, the U.S. pro-Israel policy unfairly puts higher demands on Palestinians to renounce violence than on Israelis to halt new settlements and adhere to U.N. resolutions calling for an Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian lands. Is this fair?

It isn't and that unfairness cannot be extinguished by Tomahawk missiles or military operations. The present U.S. strategy for ending the threat of terrorism through the use of military force will only exacerbate this anger and desperation. When innocent U.S. and Middle Eastern citizens are killed and harmed during this pathetic "war on terror", or used as cannon fodder for suicide hijackings, the U.S. government expects expressions of outrage and grief over brutal terrorism. But when U.S. Cruise missiles kill and maim innocent Sudanese, Afghanis, and Pakistanis, the U.S. calls it "collateral damage". The so-called hunt for Osama bin Laden has been and will continue to be futile. It's the actions of a true megalomaniac--a sociopathic Bush who can't stand to lose and will try and win at any cost. But he has lost already because the fertile soil that our involvement keeps us entrenched in simply creates other such figures as OBL who will still be around for a long time. Moreover, our continued presence in the Middle East simply serves to inflame passions and create hosts of new volunteers to those ranks.

The US has chosen sides. It now actively supports regimes that have the same enemy as they do. Whether this will be counter-productive in the long-run remains to be seen.

I hate it that Americans lost their lives in New York and Washington. I was working in D.C. at that time and very nearly one of them. But I also hate that innocent women and children have lost their lives in the Middle East due to America's attacks. These attacks have served no cause; they have likely set back efforts to build popular movements and international solidarity that, in the final analysis, are the best chance of achieving social justice and change in the Middle East and elsewhere. Yet, at this difficult time, Americans should critically examine policies with which Arabs, Muslims and many others have legitimate grievances. Instead, like Russert, our leaders refuse to admit the flaws in their policies and find it easier to demonize those in both the American and Arab world who oppose them as a way of diverting attention from their own mistakes. It's my opinion that more military solutions to the problems in the Middle East and the terrorism that has resulted from these problems is not a policy but a recipe for more violence and bombings.

Is it really so hard to leave people in peace? If America wants democracy there so badly, why don't they start off by taking a democratic vote. All Americans who want us there say aye. All Mulims who want us there, say "aye". Hmmmm.......the silence is deafening.

I welcome all points of view.

Actually, I agree that a more isolationist policy in the Muslim world would probably benefit the US in the long run. But I don't think it'll change all that much in the Islamic world. Gruesome wars, like the Iran-Iraq war, the Algerian civil war, Darfur, the Afghan civil war and the Palestinian issue will still not have been resolved. Chechnya will not be free. Kashmir won't be Pakistani. Pakistan would still be a mess. Americans might be involved in some of the conflicts, but they are not the main combatants in any of them. Removing them from the equation won't make all that much of a difference. It might get better. But it might get worse as the Muhajedeen/OBL/Jihadists smell victory and will try even harder to overthrow regimes they consider the enemy.
 
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