American killed in Egyptian clashes as Brotherhood offices attacked

[جوري]

I don't advocate democracy. I just thought that the areas of pagan wonders the tourists want to see could be non Muslim so business can thrive there. Areas with Muslim culture and lots of devout Muslims could be Sharia. Or would it be better to rip all the pagan wonders down and get rid of tourism? Money being the root of all evil.

A country's economy that is based on riba and tourism has no place in Islam.. not sure what brand of Islam you're advocating here, one that even Muslims aren't familiar with!

 

[Snel]

Two people were killed in Alexandria on Friday – one was an American bystander who was watching an attack on local Brotherhood offices – and 70 were injured. Clashes were reported in several other cities between Morsi's often secular-minded critics, who seek his immediate resignation, and his allies in the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups, who defend his democratic legitimacy.

According to the western media you are always a secularist of you're against Morsi, you can only be a muslim if you're with the muslim brotherhood. This is an attempt to give secularists political power through increased attention from the western media. So if Morsi goes down, there can only be secularism left. Ofc, the western media is dreaming, because this doesn't represent reality AT ALL. In fact, most of the opposition in Egypt are muslims themselves, but this is kept hidden intensively.

We shouldn't let the secularists have a chance to abuse the situation.

 

[observer]

We shouldn't let the secularists have a chance to abuse the situation.

You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.

Its possible, but these are usually the people who are most likely have lack of knowledge regarding islam. There are muslims who say that secularists are kufar, this is wrong to say, but the secularists have been misguided. Egypt was nationalistic and secularist for a loooong time, the people ofcourse have adopted it, generation after generation. That we muslims have adopted it is our own fault, and not the west nor their armies.

Now egypt has a government which is democratic but would like to have some islamic laws, this ofcourse would cause a lot of friction. The muslim brotherhood has alot of supporters.

Prophet muhammed(saw) said: ''Woe unto the arabs for an evil which has come near''

Now i know why.

 

[جوري]

You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.

No it isn't.. the principals of Islam are at odds with secularism. That's an expansive field that I have no desire to get into now or at this hour!

in fact what is going on in Egypt as heavily funded as is and as fomented as it is with the likes of the witch Ann Paterson and everyone can review her history in pakistan and Colombia is the only attempt left to break down Egypt

so let them fund it then and let me quote from the noble Quran the millennium year book:

Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered.​

 

[جوري]

Now egypt has a government which is democratic but would like to have some islamic laws

No such thing have you read the constitution? well I have listened to all eight hours going over its articles one by one.. Article two was always there in the old form as well perhaps a new light has been breathed into it but not implemented! Do not be fooled by them calling it Islamist.. all there is, is that the brotherhood came into power the choice of the people but are a very long way from making any true Islamic changes.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.

This really shows you how much you understand Islamic societies, 'you know'.

Apart from that interesting discussion. It is interesting how the secular liberal media (Guardian, BBC etc) in the west are trying to frame the issue. The long and short of it, Secularist = Good, Islamist = Bad.

But I think the issues are more complicated than that, I'm not sure about President Morsi, strikes me as being to cosy with the US and Israel among many other things (economy, corruption etc) though these problems are going to take decades to overcome.

The one thing that concerns me is that secular liberal ideology must not triumph. It has in Europe and you can see the corresponding decline in religious attachment and observance (Christianitys decline, ban on niqaabs etc etc).

 

[جوري]

He's not cozy with them at all.. in fact he refused to meet with Ann Paterson who is working her charm in Egypt the same way she did in Columbia and Pakistan before.. it goes far deeper than what appears on the surface and if he weren't on the path that angers the powers that be he wouldn't be met with that much resistance .. of course whenever I post gory pix it is met with disdain as if I am trying for shock value but I have never seen anything as vile or as rabid as liberals beating people to death and raping women in Tahrir square publicly those are the values they wish to replace the current elected governance for!

 

[observer]

This really shows you how much you understand Islamic societies, 'you know'.

Maybe, or maybe it shows that muslims have a wider range of beliefs than you might think?

http://www.seculardemocracy.org/

 

[جوري]

Maybe, or maybe it shows that muslims have a wider range of beliefs than you might think?

http://www.seculardemocracy.org/

Not really Islam doesn't conform to people, people conform to it and there's no compulsion in religion. You can't add, subtract, modulate to appeal to others. It isn't possible to be ahamdi and call yourself Muslim, to be a practicing homosexual and call yourself Muslim, to be a communist and call yourself Muslim. Muslim then is a smokescreen for some other agenda perhaps to appease your western compatriots but no one with basic understanding of Islam will integrate other ideologies and then label it under a catch all phrase 'Islam' You can be a bad Muslim and there are gradation of that, surely ignorance isn't an excuse especially with the religion of Iqra 'read'

best,

 

[Karl]

A country's economy that is based on riba and tourism has no place in Islam.. not sure what brand of Islam you're advocating here, one that even Muslims aren't familiar with!

I suppose it's up to the Egyptians to decide as not all are Muslims and most would probably not want to destroy the pagan wonders of idol worship and drive out tourists and foreign investment. They have become too comfy and greedy for wealth.

 

[جوري]

I suppose it's up to the Egyptians to decide as not all are Muslims and most would probably not want to destroy the pagan wonders of idol worship and drive out tourists and foreign investment. They have become too comfy and greedy for wealth.

you're wrong on several levels.
1- the decision is always with :Allah: :swt:
[FONT=Verdana,arial]Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:57] [RECITE]

[top] [next match]​

Qul innee AAala bayyinatin min rabbee wakaththabtum bihi ma AAindee ma tastaAAjiloona bihi ini alhukmu illa lillahi yaqussu alhaqqa wahuwa khayru alfasileena​

6:57 Say: "For me, I (work) on a clear sign from my Lord, but ye reject Him. What ye would see hastened, is not in my power. The command rests with none but Allah. He declares the truth, and He is the best of judges."
​

2- 90% of Egypt is Islamists only 10% Christians and those of them from sa3eed upper Egypt were with the side of the pro Islamic regime, for two reasons one if that they're homogeneous with the society unlike the cairo crowd and also because they know if they usurp the people voted on constitution it will blow in their face.
3- If Islamists or Muslims wanted to destroy idols they'd have done so in the reign of Amr ibn Il3aas when Islam reigned supreme .. the Quran in fact tells us to look at those monuments and marvel at umam that were destroyed and not to touch their places or take them for homes..

Who taught you Islam Karl?

best,[/FONT]

 

[Karl]

you're wrong on several levels.
1- the decision is always with :Allah: :swt:
[FONT=Verdana,arial]Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:57] [RECITE]

[top] [next match]​

Qul innee AAala bayyinatin min rabbee wakaththabtum bihi ma AAindee ma tastaAAjiloona bihi ini alhukmu illa lillahi yaqussu alhaqqa wahuwa khayru alfasileena​

6:57 Say: "For me, I (work) on a clear sign from my Lord, but ye reject Him. What ye would see hastened, is not in my power. The command rests with none but Allah. He declares the truth, and He is the best of judges."
​

2- 90% of Egypt is Islamists only 10% Christians and those of them from sa3eed upper Egypt were with the side of the pro Islamic regime, for two reasons one if that they're homogeneous with the society unlike the cairo crowd and also because they know if they usurp the people voted on constitution it will blow in their face.
3- If Islamists or Muslims wanted to destroy idols they'd have done so in the reign of Amr ibn Il3aas when Islam reigned supreme .. the Quran in fact tells us to look at those monuments and marvel at umam that were destroyed and not to touch their places or take them for homes..

Who taught you Islam Karl?

best,[/FONT]

"Islamists" why do you use the Zionist anti Islam terminology for Muslims?

 

[جوري]

"Islamists" why do you use the Zionist anti Islam terminology for Muslims?

A a terminology more in keeping with your understanding!

best,

 

[Trumble]

The one thing that concerns me is that secular liberal ideology must not triumph. It has in Europe and you can see the corresponding decline in religious attachment and observance (Christianitys decline, ban on niqaabs etc etc).

Far from 'corresponding' with any secular liberal ideology, the undoubted 'decline in religious attachment and observance' has far more to do with what became known as The Enlightenment and its long-term consequences. Secularism was a inevitability in a culture torn apart by religious conflict for many centuries. Modern bans on niqaabs and such have no 'correspondence' either - quite the contrary. They are the result of bigotry and paranoia, not liberal or secular anything.

He's not cozy with them at all.. in fact he refused to meet with Ann Paterson who is working her charm in Egypt the same way she did in Columbia and Pakistan before.. it goes far deeper than what appears on the surface and if he weren't on the path that angers the powers that be he wouldn't be met with that much resistance .. of course whenever I post gory pix it is met with disdain as if I am trying for shock value but I have never seen anything as vile or as rabid as liberals beating people to death and raping women in Tahrir square publicly those are the values they wish to replace the current elected governance for!

Really? And why should we accept your wishful thinking and assumptions as to who these people are and what their values might be rather than, say, this article?

Let's see.

Tamarod focused on collecting signatures for a petition that complains:

Security has not been restored since the 2011 revolution

The poor "have no place" in society

The government has had to "beg" the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a $4.8bn (£3.15bn) loan to help shore up the public finances

There has been "no justice" for people killed by security forces during the uprising and at anti-government protests since then

"No dignity is left" for Egyptians or their country

The economy has "collapsed", with growth poor and inflation high

Egypt is "following in the footsteps" of the US

Maybe just a little more complicated than 'secularists', 'Islamists', 'liberals' and conservatives, hmm? It usually is.

 

[جوري]

I agree with above post except that the alleged decline in religious attachments is contrived - Egyptian people by their very nature are deeply religious and this goes back to the time of the Pharos they've always been concerned with life, death meaning of it they've volumes of literature dedicated to it. Any detachment was a systematic one by a govt. that was very divorced from the people, the 'king's muftis' and of course the media. It's interesting to note that a country in a horrible economic decline would spend billions on soap operas and songs and talk show hosts literally millions go to talk show hosts as funded by the state another reason they hate mursi so much is the cap on salaries and age whenever he tries to make changes they proclaim he's a dictator can't touch the judicial system can't touch the independent media which by the way is anything but independent still pretty much a state media and a mouth piece for the old regime. They'd send Americans to award morons degrees in excellent journalism morons like ibrahim isa when they've never seen a show by him but hey he mocks the Quran prophet and Islam that's Nobel worthy of course. I can write volumes of in incidents on the systematic brain Washing and criminalisation of Islam in Egypt how if you were bearded they'd grab you to torture you from mosques my father's friend was taken after Friday prayer in their boyhood never to be seen nor heard from again.
Brotherhood was criminalized you've to join the army in Egypt but they were banned and systematic brain wash against them is quite prevelant they mock them with worse derogatory terms undoubtedly words they used on them during their imprisonment and torture - anyhow I am typing in the dark from my phone so I don't know how this turned out hopefully you get the gist!

 

[جوري]

My reply above is to the post before last!
As to why my word over articles well Trumble you don't have to of course you're free to your beliefs the same faulty ones you've for years for instance with the Palestinian boy that died at the hands of IDF pigs with your insistence it was all a hoax- I just posted an article on that with you in mind specifically :alhamd: the truth came out ironically in a French court of all places so you stick with articles that support your beliefs and not the facts all you want that's what concrete thinkers do.
Are you on the ground in Egypt? Have you lived there? Do you've relatives there? Are your relatives there from the Air Force, army or special forces? If no to one or all the above then you've your answer as to why your articles aren't worth a rats well you know!

Best,