Amrita of Islam?

[cisz]

The previous post was in reply to Insaanah.

 

[Scimitar]

[...]
In fact, I hve looked extensively into Islam and have read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.

I assume that you are not trying to say that Allah isn't the same God as the God of Abraham. However, Abraham's God was called "Elohim" and is plural.

The Arabic word Allah cannot be turned into plural, like the English word god can be gods/goddesses etc. Allah cannot grammatically be plural, or feminine, nor changed in any way. He is One God.

Boy oh boy oh boy,

Insaanah, it is the plural of respect -the royal plural, not the mathematical one.

I give you an example - how many times does Allah refer to Himself as "We" in the Qur'an, for example - "And We did not send this Qur'an except as a mercy for the worlds"

To elaborate further (and this is for Cisz benefit also since he's so hung up on the word Eloh-im0 [the im, denoting the plural of respect also] check it out:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134333960-concept-god.html

See Cisz, the YHWH/YHVH is the Great and Holy Name not to be uttered by Jews - and over time they could't even if they tried because they don't know the Great Name of God - only we Muslims do - and it's all in that thread in the first page... you seeking the truth? You owe it to yourself to give this thread a GOOD consideration.

Scimi

 

[Serinity]

There is no place for shirk in Islam, at all. Allah :swt: is One, in every sense.

 

[Scimitar]

There is no place for shirk in Islam, at all. Allah :swt: is One, in every sense.

Go look up the Royal Plural... Allah is one. If you actually read Qur'an you will find that Allah refers to HIMSELF as WE - many MANY MANY times over and over again - it is the royal plural. Not the plural of numbers.

If you click this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134333960-concept-god.html which I posted research in - you will find out why the Royal Plural is a given in scripture.

I'm surprised the scholars and student of knowledge don't chime in isn't that what they are here for? Why am I doing their job?

Scimi

 

[Serinity]

Go look up the Royal Plural... Allah is one. If you actually read Qur'an you will find that Allah refers to HIMSELF as WE - many MANY MANY times over and over again - it is the royal plural. Not the plural of numbers.

If you click this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134333960-concept-god.html which I posted research in - you will find out why the Royal Plural is a given in scripture.

I'm surprised the scholars and student of knowledge don't chime in isn't that what they are here for? Why am I doing their job?

Scimi

may Allah :swt: reward you abundantly for taking the job of scholars. Ameen.

I'm pretty sure Ahmad Deedat already answered this plural of respect, thing.

I will give that thread a read (with breaks of course)

 

[Insaanah]

[...]
In fact, I hve looked extensively into Islam and have read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.

I assume that you are not trying to say that Allah isn't the same God as the God of Abraham. However, Abraham's God was called "Elohim" and is plural.

Allah is the God of Abraham (peace be on him). By whatever name you call Him, He is the same ONE God.

"Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." [...]." (Qur'an 17:110, part)

Abraham (peace be on him) worshipped Allah alone, was unswervingly steadfast and firm on this, and told his people to do the same, and he wasn't among the polytheists:

And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims."
Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (2:132-133)

They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." (2:135)

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. (2:258)

He [Abraham] said, "Then do you worship instead of Allah that which cannot benefit you at all or harm you? (21:66)

And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know." (29:16)

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists. (3:67)

Say, " Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:95)

Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah . (16:123)

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate. (22:26)

Allah sometimes uses the royal we, and sometimes Me/I. Me/I is tends to be used in matters of obedience or worship, as in the above 22:26 (do not associate anything in worship with Me/My divinity), whereas earlier in the same verse, Allah says, We designated the site of the house, which is something that Allah did (pointing out the location of a certain thing).

As a worldly example, in certain royal documents the queen refers to herself as we, eg "we will rule...", and in others, as I. Yet England has one monarch at any one time.

Anyone who reads the Qur'an comes away clearly with the message that only One ONE God is to be worshipped, and that all the Prophets, peace be on them (including Abraham) were sent to people to teach them this.

Peace.

 

[cisz]

So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?

If he was speaking from the point of view that he was the only God, he would have said, "Now man has become like me." Saying "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one. It could not have been the "royal we".

But, in any case, to me, the "royal we" implies a kind of arrogance that is found is worldly monarchs and would certainly not be used by the God of the oppressed.

(Note: not being familiar with this forum, I didn't see that there was a 2nd page until today. So I just now saw these new posts.)

 

[cisz]

In other words, if God want to use the "royal we" in this sentence, he would have said, "Now man has become like us". To say "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one.

 

[T L]

So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?

If he was speaking from the point of view that he was the only God, he would have said, "Now man has become like me." Saying "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one. It could not have been the "royal we".

But, in any case, to me, the "royal we" implies a kind of arrogance that is found is worldly monarchs and would certainly not be used by the God of the oppressed.

(Note: not being familiar with this forum, I didn't see that there was a 2nd page until today. So I just now saw these new posts.)

What kindof planet are you speaking from?
God doesn't deserve to be addressed in such a way because of your flawed human definition of the royal "we" which you find to be arrogant? THE Creator of the Universe? THE Lord of the Worlds that put your braincells together?
Seriously?

HE is ABOVE ALL THINGS. Power only lies with HIM. He OWNS every essence and nuance of the WE, HE created the attributions that humans have adopted so heedlessly to which frankly you can't seem to grasp.

Tell me, when a king addresses his people, how does he address them? Using 'I', or 'we'?

Do your research please.

 

[sister herb]

In other words, if God want to use the "royal we" in this sentence, he would have said, "Now man has become like us". To say "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one.

Do you now try to blame that in Islam has more than one God?

 

[AabiruSabeel]

So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?

Where did you get that from? It is blasphemous. You should not attribute anything to Allah :swt:

Exalted is He and high above what they say by great sublimity. [17:43]

 

[cisz]

Tell me, when a king addresses his people, how does he address them? Using 'I', or 'we'?

Do your research please.

A flawed, arrogant human king uses the word "we" to refer to himself (or herself).

God would not use a word to refer to Themselves that is so strongly associated with evil, oppressive, arrogant human monarchs.

 

[cisz]

Where did you get that from? It is blasphemous. You should not attribute anything to Allah

:ermm:It is from Genesis, 3,22.

ויאמר יהוה אלהים הן האדם היה כאחד ממנו לדעת טוב ורע ועתה פן-ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעלם׃

Translit	va.yo.mer a.do.nai e.lo.him hen ha.a.dam ha.ya ke.a.khad mi.me.nu la.da.at tov va.ra ve.a.ta pen-yish.lakh ya.do ve.la.kakh gam me.ets ha.kha.yim ve.a.khal va.khai le.o.lam:
English	And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.'

[TD="align: right"][/TD]

 

[OmAbdullah]

I hadn't intended to get into what my beliefs are, but since I'm being asked --

I would point out that the Hebrew word for God/Allah is "Elohim", which is plural.

The Bible begins with Genesis which reads:
"In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the earth."

That is -- "In the beginning, the Gods created the Heavens and the earth."

Also, in Genesis, after Eve and Adam ate the Fruit of Knowledge, the "Lord God", also called, in Hebrew, "Adonai Elohim" says "Now man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." This makes it obvious that there was more than one God.

My understanding of "monotheism" and the "one God" is that there is a Unity of Will and Purpose of all the Plants which make up the Body of "Soma".

Allah has used plural pronoun for HIMSELF in the Holy Quraan. This doesn't mean that there are many gods. This is only for the sake of Honor and Respect. It is like a king says' " we want it to be done this way". This sentence only means that the king used plural pronoun for himself for his respect. But it doesn't mean that he is made of two or more kings. I don't understand why are simple words given the complicated and wrong meaning. This is only from Satan, our deadly enemy!!!


No tree is a miracle tree. This is a step to stray people and guide them to polytheism. I can give example from the history of Islam.


There was a date palm (tree) near which the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to stand for giving sermon. Then a high place was made for Him to stand upon for giving sermon. When the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam stood upon that place, the palm-tree started weeping /crying loudly and every one could hear it crying. It cried because the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam left it and didn't stand near it. (This is a proof of the modern science that plants are living things. It was proved at the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Also I can see that a tree had more love for Allah's Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam than many of today's so-called Muslims.) The tree was crying until Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam came down near it and touched it with love. Then it became quiet. Later people had respect for that tree. Umar rAa cut it down because of the danger that later, people due to ignorance may start shirk with that tree.


Thus remember that Satan is our bad enemy and such statement as your post are a help to Satan to stray mankind to the everlasting Hell Fire.

Every plant and every thing is created by Allah and Allah has given them great qualities. All praises are due only for Allah who created excellent things with excellent qualities. But nothing can harm us or benefit us without the Will and Command of Allah. So we must pray only to Allah because the tree or anything else has no power of its own.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

:ermm:It is from Genesis, 3,22.

We follow the Qur'an. You are on IslamicBoard!

A flawed, arrogant human king uses the word "we" to refer to himself (or herself).

God would not use a word to refer to Themselves that is so strongly associated with evil, oppressive, arrogant human monarchs.

Your argument is flawed. "I" is the arrogant letter, not "we".

 

[Scimitar]

Dear Cisz

While you study the sanskrit of the bhagavid geeta and the other vedic texts - go check how may instances the BrahamPratatama refers to tiself as WE.

What are you? unilingual and moronic?

Even the very scriptures you cite talk of the ROYAL WE and not the PLURAL OF NUMBERS - EVEN THOUGH THE PLURAL OF NUMBERS WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO APPLY TO POLYTHEISM :d YET WE FIND ITS THE ROYAL PLURAL... Want examples? GO READ and stop playing stupid.

As for Eloh-im - the IM at the end denote a suffix of respect for a venerated personality, one honoured or to the God.

You didn't even read my thread did you? Here, for your moronic brain to digest.

The suffix "IM" of the word "ELOHIM" is a plural of respect in Hebrew.

(Remember that in Arabic and Hebrew there are two types of plurals. One of numbers and the other of honour (the Royal Plural) as in Royal proclamations. Since the plural of honour is uncommon in the language of the European, he has confused these plurals to connote a plurality in the "godhead," hence his justification for his Doctrine of the Holy Trinity - the Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

Hence ELOHIM = ELOH + IM. Now I want you to perform an exercise. Do you see the words: YA-HUWA ELOH-IM? Place your left hand index finger on the first two letters "YA" meaning oh! and the other index finger on the "IM" a plural of respect. What you now have remaining in Huwa Eloh or Huwa Elah.

El in Hebrew means god, and Elah or Eloh also stands for the same name - god. Therefore, "Huwa el Elah" or HUWA 'L LAH, which is identical to the Quranic expression -Huwal Lah (meaning: HE IS ALLAH) of the verse QUL HUWAL LAH HU AHUD

QUL - SAY:

HUWAL LAH - HE IS ALLAH

HU AHAD - HE IS ONE (the one and only) (Qur'an 112:1)

(Mind Blowing Stuff)

The above exercise proves that El, Elah and Elohim are not three distinctly different words. They all represent the single Arabic word Allah. This is not my wishful thinking. Please see below. It is a photostatic reproduction of a page from the English Bible, edited by Rev. C. I. Scofield,D.D., with his Bible Commentary· This Doctor of Divinity is well respected among the Bible Scholars of the Christian world. He is backed in his "NEW AND IMPROVED EDITION" of this translation by a galaxy of eight other D.D.'s:

Rev. Henry G. Weston, D.D., LL.D., President Crozer Theological jeminary.
Rev. W. G. Moorehead, D.D., President Xenia (U.I,) Theological Seminary.
Rev. lames M. Gray, D.D., President Moody Bible Institute.
Rev. Elmore Harris, D.D., President Toronto Bible Institute.
Rev. William !. Erdman, D.D., Author "The Gospel of John," etc.
Rev. Arthur T. Pierson, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher, etc.
Rev. William L. Pettingill, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher.
Arno C. Gaebelein, Author "Harmoney of Prophetic Word," etc.

I have not listed the above luminaries to awe you. They have been unanimous in supporting Rev. Scofield in his "New and Improved" commentary.

Please note that in their comment No. 1 below left, they concur that - "Elohim, (sometimes El or Elah meaning God)" and alternatively spelled "Alah" (line three, third word). All the eight D.D.'s above could not have been blind in dittoing the spelling "Alah" for God. How far were they from the Arabic word spelled - ALLAH - in English, I ask you dear reader? This is Allah's handiwork, but the Devil (I must give him a capital "D," he deserves it) was not slow in making a quick come-back through his agents. You will find these references in the recent reproduction of "The New Scofield Reference Bible." You will not be able to lay your hands anymore on the Bible with "Alah" in it. The Devil has seen to that.

QUICK ABROGATION

"Now You See It" - "Now You Don't" is an old, old gimmick in the West. Compare the above and see how cleverly, how deftly the new band of missionaries expunged the word "Alah" from the "Authorised King James Version" of the Scofield translation of the Bible.

__________​

Hebrew Aramaic and Arabic are sister languages, so it comes as no surprise that when Moses (pbuh) was in Exile, he married Jethroes daughter - Jethroe was an Arab - and Moses was able to communicate with the Arabs simply because their languages shared the same roots - they were Semitic.

Cisz, next time I link you a thread - do yourself a favour to avoid looking like the village idiot - click the link and read it, until it makes sense - don't be the village idiot.

Here, knowck yourself out - http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134333960-concept-god.html

 

[cisz]

We follow the Qur'an. You are on IslamicBoard!

The "Christians" follow the "New Testament" but since Christ believed in Moses, Abraham, King David, etc., the "Christians" also believe in Them and know the "Old Testament".

Similarly, Muhammad believed in those same people. So how would someone not know what the "God" of the Garden of Eden said?

Your argument is flawed. "I" is the arrogant letter, not "we".

The question is not if God called Themselves "I" -- but rather that when They called Themselves "We", if it was the "royal" we or a "We" in union with all of the Spirits of God, such as from the "Burning Bush", the Manna, the Presence Bread, the Anointing Oil, the Tree of Knowledge, the "Crystal which is in a glass, which would almost shine forth of Themselves though no fire touched Them" (from the Quran), and all of the Saints who worship Them.

 

[cisz]

Your insults mean nothing to me other than you think to prove yourself right by acting like I'm stupid, rather than addressing the facts.

You have not responded to the fact that the "God" of the Garden of Eden said "Now man has become as one of us", which can not be interpreted any other way than that there is more than one God.

As for your insults, this is my answer to you:
"6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom." -- Quran, II, 6,7

 

[cisz]

And no - I didn't read your link. Why would I read a long winded explanation of something I know is wrong?

If you have something to say -- say it yourself.

 

[cisz]

And, of course, there is Psalm 82, which Christ quoted:

5“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.

They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7But you will die like mere mortals;

you will fall like every other ruler.”