Amsterdan's Gay Christmass

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TKTony said:
Shame, you let someone make a mockery of you thats shamefull, when it is Allahs messengers then it is severely punishable, I hope they burn
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It's just such a non-issue. It's SO easy to just ignore and move on.

AntiKarateKid said:
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Religion is more than just YOU. You dont seem to get that. They have a right to doom themselves, it is decreed by God. Religion is more than just your personal issues.
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What does this even mean?

I will mind if I see bullies verbally abusing a child. I will mind if I see a man who decides to portray the very reason why some people live, as a transexual or gay.
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I've assumed this convo involved adults and not children.

And they call us HATE filled? Intolerant? For criticizing homosexuality I am a bigot?? But them mocking our religion, Jesus, they are exercising their "rights"???
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If no one is being harmed, why is there even a problem? I didn't know you weren't allowed to criticize homosexuality. If you are talking away some right, then I have a problem.
 
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TKTony said:
Shame, you let someone make a mockery of you thats shamefull, when it is Allahs messengers then it is severely punishable, I hope they burn
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Hes a fool. They dont even understand religion, how can we expect them to respect it?

He doesnt respect himself enough to correct the wrongs done to him or his loved ones, what makes you think we will protect the feelings of others?

People are getting hurt but all he does is shrugs.
 
You every thought that this type of stuff actually HURTS feelings, or are you so insensitive? You know, FEELINGS, one of the things that distinguishes us from robots.
 
Tornado said:
It's just such a non-issue. It's SO easy to just ignore and move on.
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Sure, I'm sure millions of individuals are happy to capitulate their faith to utter nihilism. Simply because you hold nothing sacred, or hold an individuals ability to express whatever idiocy pops into their head as sacrosanct does not mean that others must assimilate themselves to similar dispositions. These individuals showed a flagrant disregard for the holy beliefs of others.

When hard won free speech rights are reduced to petty, infantile displays of vulgarity it becomes difficult to retain them and see them as important rights worth maintaining. These individuals are actively undermining the very rights they are exercising.
 
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AntiKarateKid said:
You every thought that this type of stuff actually HURTS feelings, or are you so insensitive? You know, FEELINGS, one of the things that distinguishes us from robots.
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Of course feelings are hurt when those who you revere dearly are brought in a bad light. However, it's so easy to ignore by just moving to the next page. Al though a parade is a little harder to ignore :D.
 
Tornado said:
Who's getting hurt? If people don't like it, they can simply ignore it.
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But people do not ignore things. There is a name for becoming oblivious to the events around you, it is called apathy.

We do need to be verbal about things that pain or anger us. But, we must have the restraint to to it in an honorable fashion and by peaceful means
 
wth1257 said:
Sure, I'm sure millions of individuals are happy to capitulate their faith to utter nihilism. Simply because you hold nothing sacred, or hold an individuals ability to express whatever idiocy pops into their head as sacrosanct does not mean that others must assimilate themselves to similar dispositions. These individuals showed a flagrant disregard for the holies beliefs of others.

When hard won free speech rights are reduced to petty, infantile displays of vulgarity it becomes difficult to retain them and see them as important rights worth maintaining.
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Thankyou and respect, the individuals are obviously trying to provoke, there has to be a reaction, even if it is only to oppose them in a forum with words. I am so glad to see a non Muslim or Christian actually seeing past the urge to post glib comments in order to further fuel an already raging fire in the hearts of beleivers. Much peace and happines to you
 
wth1257 said:
Sure, I'm sure millions of individuals are happy to capitulate their faith to utter nihilism. Simply because you hold nothing sacred, or hold an individuals ability to express whatever idiocy pops into their head as sacrosanct does not mean that others must assimilate themselves to similar dispositions. These individuals showed a flagrant disregard for the holy beliefs of others.

When hard won free speech rights are reduced to petty, infantile displays of vulgarity it becomes difficult to retain them and see them as important rights worth maintaining. These individuals are actively undermining the very rights they are exercising.
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Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't like if someone said bad things about me, but I rather let them have the ability to.

There's a reason why I hold my belief.
Take Scientology as an example: This religion is obviously false (hope I'm not offending anybody). If we give religion a right to not be offended, what's to stop Scientology from being offended or any other cult for that matter. I rather people have the ability to speak up and criticize so that we can speak up against dangerous cults ( say one that hated and asked for the removal of a certain group). It just doesn't seem right to give major religions a free ride if we don't give cults one.
 
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Anyways, just as a curiosity, I always wondered why the response (by muslims) to Jesus is significantly less than it would be for say Muhammad. Is it because Jesus was alive (if) so long ago? Or is it because making fun of Jesus is so normal these days?

(BTW: If Jesus really lived, I'd have a lot of respect for him)
 
Tornado said:
There's a reason why I hold my belief.
Take Scientology as an example: This religion is obviously false (hope I'm not offending anybody). If we give religion a right to not be offended, what's to stop Scientology from being offended or any other cult for that matter. I rather people have the ability to speak up and criticize so that we can speak up against dangerous cults. It just doesn't seem right to give major religions a free ride if we don't give cults one.
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Haha A free ride, people give up fornication, music, drugs, alcohol, relationships, jobs, environments, loved and cherished posessions etc etc. there is no free ride for a beleiver of major religion. Whatever the faith there is sacrifice. There is self imposed restriction that ultimatley disallows a free ride, as a Muslim it is far from a free ride when attempting to fulfill our covenant with Allah. Who cares about you not allowing us a free ride. We are hugely entitled to be outraged at offensive imagary. Scientologists may well be open to feelins of offensive outrage also. you carry on "speaking up" we encourage you, you so busy speaking up that you not really listening. May Allah show you mercy and open your ears
 
Tornado said:
There's a reason why I hold my belief.
Take Scientology as an example: This religion is obviously false (hope I'm not offending anybody). If we give religion a right to not be offended, what's to stop Scientology from being offended or any other cult for that matter. I rather people have the ability to speak up and criticize so that we can speak up against dangerous cults. It just doesn't seem right to give major religions a free ride if we don't give cults one.
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Critique and criticism are not mockery. I personally welcome legitimate criticism of Islam as that opens the path to honest discussion. People will not always agree, but we all have the ability to disagree with respect and peace.

Mockery and insults are not criticism, they are blatant hostility and hate disguised as humor.

Stop and think the promoters of the event would not even have it if they thought it would not cause a reaction. They are trying to push us far enough so some emotionally immature individuals will react out of emotionalism and do something equally wrong.
 
Woodrow said:
Critique and criticism are not mockery. I personally welcome legitimate criticism of Islam as that opens the path to honest discussion. People will not always agree, but we all have the ability to disagree with respect and peace.

Mockery and insults are not criticism, they are blatant hostility and hate disguised as humor.

Stop and think the promoters of the event would not even have it if they thought it would not cause a reaction. They are trying to push us far enough so some emotionally immature individuals will react out of emotionalism and do something equally wrong.
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I understand that. Tackle critism but what's so hard about ignoring mockery? Mockery (is btw stupid) is just a bad side-affect of free speech but it can be ignored, (maybe not the parade).


(Btw, these are my views, not necessarily another atheist's)
 
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Tornado said:
I understand that. Tackle critism but what's so hard about ignoring mockery? Mockery (is btw stupid) is just a bad side-affect of free speech but it can be ignored, (maybe not the parade).
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Mockery is virtually impossable to ignore. By it's very nature mockery is invasive. If it were not so invasive and did not cause so much pain, it would simply be a dumb statement.


People that use mockery as an insults do so with the intent of causing pain and humiliation. It may be legal, but it is mental assault and no less of a danger than verbal abuse. Verbal abuse is recognised as a crime and as a basis for divorce in many countries. Mockery, carries with it the same type of desire to inflict pain. The worse pain leaves no visible scars.

On a personal basis I would prefer shattered bones over mockery.

Yes, I have experienced shattered bones, many times and I still feel that the emotional pain of mockery is a much more difficult pain to endure.
 
Woodrow said:
Mockery is virtually impossable to ignore. By it's very nature mockery is invasive. If it were not so invasive and did not cause so much pain, it would simply be a dumb statement.


People that use mockery as an insults do so with the intent of causing pain and humiliation. It may be legal, but it is mental assault and no less of a danger than verbal abuse. Verbal abuse is recognised as a crime and as a basis for divorce in many countries. Mockery, carries with it the same type of desire to inflict pain. The worse pain leaves no visible scars.

On a personal basis I would prefer shattered bones over mockery.

Yes, I have experienced shattered bones, many times and I still feel that the emotional pain of mockery is a much more difficult pain to endure.
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You don't have to listen to mockery. You can't escape a physical assault. It's not that hard to say "They are ignorant and mean-spirited but whatever", and simply move on. If you pay attention to them, they've won and they'll do it again. I guess I rather have freedom of speech even if there are some side-effects.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Hes a fool. They dont even understand religion, how can we expect them to respect it?

He doesnt respect himself enough to correct the wrongs done to him or his loved ones, what makes you think we will protect the feelings of others?

People are getting hurt but all he does is shrugs.
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No need for personal insults..pls.
 
Tornado said:
You don't have to listen to mockery. You can't escape a physical assault. It's not that hard to say "They are ignorant and mean-spirited but whatever", and simply move on. If you pay attention to them, they've won and they'll do it again. I guess I rather have freedom of speech even if there are some side-effects.
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On the surface that is correct. However, in my years as a psychologist I had to work quite often with people recovering from the trauma of emotional abuse. the pain of mockery is something the average person is not capable of ignoring.

I did very little counseling work as my forte was in physiological psychology, however there were times I got called in as a consultant in cases of severe emotional trauma. Usually children and the culprit was mockery or verbal abuse. I also did a little work in the research of multiple personality disorder, looking for a physical causation, but my findings were that verbal abuse was the most common cause.

Mockery is a weapon and is used with hate for the purpose of causing pain.

It is true that "Mockery" can be used accidentally as misguided humor. But in that event the doers of it will most often cease if shown they are causing pain. Those who persist in mockery are aware of the pain they cause and that is impossible to be ignored by many people.
 
Tornado said:
Anyways, just as a curiosity, I always wondered why the response (by muslims) to Jesus is significantly less than it would be for say Muhammad. Is it because Jesus was alive (if) so long ago? Or is it because making fun of Jesus is so normal these days?

(BTW: If Jesus really lived, I'd have a lot of respect for him)
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Eh? People are naturally more protective about the Prophet closer in revelation to them.

Should it be that way? No. Is it that way? Not so much. I would gladly protest just as loudly against insults about Jesus pbuh.

It is jsut that insults toward him, like Jesus pbuh, dolls, cartoons, statues, jokes are so freaking ingrained into Western culture that we would basically be fighting the West's whole ideology.
 

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