An Eternal Universe? Not According to Modern Science.

[- Qatada -]

Asalaam alaikum warahmatulah wabarakatuh

A Universe/s Regressing back Infinitely is illogical. How?


Imagine you're standing in a line, with infinite amount of people standing ahead of you.

Will you ever get your turn?


The same way this universe would never get its chance to come into existence, if infinite universes were before it.


The same way God is not created by a series of infinitely regressing created gods, otherwise this God would have infinite amount of 'gods' before He could 'come into existence'.

So instead we affirm that God is One, the Originator, without being created. And this does not defy logic, since God by definition is infinite.




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[Skavau]

Asalaam alaikum warahmatulah wabarakatuh

Infinite Regression [going] into the past is illogical. How?


Imagine you're standing in a line, with infinite amount of people standing ahead of you.

Will you ever get your turn?


The same way this universe would never get its chance to come into existence, if infinite universes were before it.

The same way God is not created by a series of infinitely regressing created gods, otherwise this God would have infinite amount of 'gods' before He could 'come into existence'.​

So something, according to you did come from nothing.

 

[Uthman]

Greetings Skavau,

So something, according to you did come from nothing.

Are you talking about God? If so, then we don't believe he came from nothing since this would imply that, at some point, God came into existence. As you may be aware, we don't believe this to be the case. You might have misunderstood the point Br. Qatada was trying to make with his last sentence?

Regards

 

[Skavau]

Greetings Skavau, Are you talking about God? If so, then we don't believe he came from nothing since this would imply that, at some point, God came into existence. As you may be aware, we don't believe this to be the case. You might have misunderstood the point Br. Qatada was trying to make with his last sentence?

Regards

He got himself into a quandry. He must, if your response is accurate to what he thinks simultaneously believes that infinite existence is impossible and that God is infinite.

 

[جوري]

He got himself into a quandry. He must, if your response is accurate to what he thinks simultaneously believes that infinite existence is impossible and that God is infinite.

God isn't a part of the creation as such only God is infinite and everything else isn't!..
I believe the quandary is yours alone!

all the best

 

[Skavau]

God isn't a part of the creation as such only God is infinite and everything else isn't!..

That is a concept that you insist is true. I have no reason to accept the universe as a 'creation'. I am told that infinite existence cannot be possible in anyway shape or form, but then am informed that I must somehow accept an exemption clause for God. That everything we understand about reality is void when it concerns God.

It all appears far too convenient.

 

[جوري]

That is a concept that you insist is true. I have no reason to accept the universe as a 'creation'. I am told that infinite existence cannot be possible in anyway shape or form, but then am informed that I must somehow accept an exemption clause for God. That everything we understand about reality is void when it concerns God.

And as such no one is holding a gun to your head to accept that as true.. we all subscribe to something vague which we hold in confidence to be the truth..
by the way if the world wasn't created then what was it? Always there? do you not hold that concept to be the truth and expect that others place some confidence in that?..

perhaps if you looked at things in contrast of all the other options that exist you'll realize that deep down inside you too hold on to some belief system. And as the adage goes ''when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'' conan doyle ..

now whatever remains for you, might differ from what remains for us but in the end you are standing on equal grounds with everyone else.. and that is the fork up the road where we part ways!

all the best

 

[Skavau]

And as such no one is holding a gun to your head to accept that as true..

I never said they were. This is a discussion thread. I was responding to a comment you made. I assumed you were using it as an explanation for a contradiction I find in the cosmological argument apologists.

we all subscribe to something vague which we hold in confidence to be the truth..

Perhaps.

by the way if the world wasn't created then what was it? Always there? do you not hold that concept to be the truth and expect that others place some confidence in that?..

I do not believe that Earth was "always there". Concerning however, your question: I don't share your position. Things in the natural world are caused and not created.

now whatever remains for you, might differ from what remains for us but in the end you are standing on equal grounds with everyone else.. and that is the fork up the road where we part ways!

all the best

Uh... okay?

 

[جوري]

I never said they were. This is a discussion thread. I was responding to a comment you made. I assumed you were using it as an explanation for a contradiction I find in the cosmological argument apologists.

I was using it to elucidate that you alone find a contradiction in what he wrote!

Perhaps.

that is very weighty

I do not believe that Earth was "always there". Concerning however, your question: I don't share your position. Things in the natural world are caused and not created.

What is the difference between caused and created in your book? What caused the earth to come about and everything in it or outside of it?

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYNT7GbWeI&feature=related[/MEDIA]
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Uh... okay?

Why must you foolishly exclaim when you have nothing of substance to write?

 

[Ramadhan]

He got himself into a quandry. He must, if your response is accurate to what he thinks simultaneously believes that infinite existence is impossible and that God is infinite.

infinite existence is impossible in this universe.
God is outside universe/creation.
God does not subject to laws and logic of our universe (His creation).

 

[Skavau]

infinite existence is impossible in this universe.
God is outside universe/creation.

This is just an exemption clause. It is an excuse for not being able to provide a reasonable explanation for a self-confessed inconsistent world view.

I could just as reasonably declare that the universe happened because of a series of unexplained tubes and decree inquiry into their makeup as impossible.

 

[Gator]

Here's a lecture from an Atheist Alliance International forum. Thought it would be interesting to people interested in the subject. (Its long!)

"Lawrence Krauss gives a talk on our current picture of the universe, how it will end, and how it could have come from nothing."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Thanks.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Thanks for that Gator, that was quite good.

 

[freethinking]

We don't exactly know the fate of the universe with assurity because we do not know how the universe works fully and how much dark matter/energy there actually is. But consider this thought experiement:

God is infinite. He created the universe at a particular moment in existance by the big bang. The universe is destroyed by the big crunch, and immediatley is reactivated by another big bang, etc. This process can happen to infinite. Since God is infinite, he is able to sustain the universe being eternal and infinite as well, since there will be no time that the universe hasn't existed as long as God has been around, which is forever.

Gid is inside AND outside of time and of this universe and eternity

 

[freethinking]

Gid is inside AND outside of time and of this universe and eternity

Padrdon me Lord I meant of course God not gid!