ancient chinese monotheism

[sonz]

salama

i wuz searchin about the religion history of china and i found some interestin stuff

the chinese people used to believe in one God called ShangDi which means "the Supreme God" or "God Most High"

i was not suprised cuz allah azwajjal said:

"And certainly We sent messengers before you: there are some of them that We have mentioned to you and there are others whom We have not mentioned to you..." [40:78]

and

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger..."[16:36]

and guess what. allah azwajjal is Most High just like the meaning of ShangDi

"...and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255]

"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1]


also chk this cool article that talks about kapauku papuans of west guinea

Every Nation Was Sent A Messenger.....
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/prophet.html

what do u think.

masalama

 

[chitownmuslim]

Assalamu Alaikum,

Subhan Allah, messengers and prophets were sent to all nations and tribes, Ive read about a team of anthropologists who said that there is undeniable evidence that monotheistic religions were preached all over the world, at different times in history, even among the Native tribes of North and South America! What surprised me the most is that all these monothiestic religions had these in common:
-One Creator, who created everything
-angels and demons
-good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are punished
-Judgement Day, or a Final Day

Subhan Allah...

 

[Umar001]

Jaffar Idris I think does say that the Quran does show that people will not be sent into hell unless they had a Warner.

This is similar to many of the question Zakir naik gets, if the Hindu scriptures could be left overs of a messenger that was sent tot hat area.

He says it could or couldnt, because by name only 25 are in the Quran but Ahadeeth mentions many more in number.

 

[wilberhum]

Monotheism was bound to happen.
People thought god lived in a tree, but the tree died.
Then the river became his home, but the river dried up.
Not a good thing for god.

People had come up with a version of god that could not be proved false

If there were multiple gods, your god could be greater than my god.
People had come up with a version of god that could not be considered inferior in any way.

Thus Monotheism came to be.

 

[sonz]

salama

its so amazing that ancient cultures had monotheism and that prophets were sent to them.

masalama

 

[Abdul Fattah]

wilberhum
Just because some people had false notions or worships doesn't make each notion or worship false by default. in order to show how flawed your reasoning is alow me to refect it back to you.

Monotheism was bound to happen.
People thought god lived in a tree, but the tree died.
Then the river became his home, but the river dried up.
Not a good thing for god.

People had come up with a version of god that could not be proved false

If there were multiple gods, your god could be greater than my god.
People had come up with a version of god that could not be considered inferior in any way.

Thus Monotheism came to be.

*Some peopel have always tried to free themself from religious obligations by attacking God with words.
*People asked philosophical questions, used hypotetical situations, introduced baseless twisted moralitys (i.e: freedom of individual is more important then well-being of a group).
*Although some religions fail to answer these attcks, Islam has always provided simple and honest answers
*Eventually peolpe came up with version af disbelief that couldn't be disproven: I start with nothing, a blank mind. You fail to proove me God exists; therefor I stay with my blank mind.
*Thus atheism came to be.

 

[duskiness]

introduced baseless twisted moralitys (i.e: freedom of individual is more important then well-being of a group).

watch out for such a statements Steve! People in my country were fed with it for 50 years and given instead "sound" teching that "freedom of individual is less important than well-being of a group". It didn't bring well-being to noone...
n.

 

[HeiGou]

Monotheism was bound to happen.

I disagree. People, basically, do not like monotheism but they do like polytheism. If left alone they will naturally turn to polytheism by either reviving some sort of natural magic or more likely turning to shrines and pirs and saints. You can see this is the Islamic world where Jews and Christians and Muslims all worshipped at wells, or shrines to dead holy men or mountains or whatever. Poor people, and especially the illiterate, need some sense they can control their world and religions of the Book just do not provide that. The evil eye and the Saintly shrine do.

This is why Islamic history is one long battle with shirk.

 

[HeiGou]

Subhan Allah, messengers and prophets were sent to all nations and tribes, Ive read about a team of anthropologists who said that there is undeniable evidence that monotheistic religions were preached all over the world, at different times in history, even among the Native tribes of North and South America! What surprised me the most is that all these monothiestic religions had these in common:
-One Creator, who created everything
-angels and demons
-good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are punished
-Judgement Day, or a Final Day

Hmm, any evidence of that from real anthropologists or archaeologists as opposed to people doing Dawah, either Christian or Muslim?

I don't think there is the slightest evidence China was ever monotheistic. The Chinese word for society, shehui, literally means a gathering to worship the God of the (local) earth. It is a very old word.

 

[HarunAlRashid]

ANCIENT CHINA's TAOISM - if the discussion can at least be allowed to use concrete terminology - was NOT monotheistic in the Islamic sense of the word. However gardening was ONLY IN CHINA a part of the mandated religious experience because unity with Nature for the purposes of harmonizing oneself with the FORCES in the UNIVERSE (feng shwei) was one key demand. The Middle Kingdom was indeed the focus of the creation by the Higher Powers - and its emperor the 'appointee of Heaven' - but beyond the sycretic usage of the word "HEAVEN" to denote the higher powers working together - there was no view of life as a grand drama-stage of the battle between Evil and Good in 3 acts (Creation, messiah/paraclete/main prophet who comes to save god's creation and Judgment Day) in a Cavern-World.

The architecture of Chinese temples also follows this inverted rooftop design to emphasize harmonizing with Nature and it alwaysis shown stuck witnin flowers, trees and herbs.

In China, one walks through 'old traces' and one records the chronologies of ancestors (sacred geneologies) and one worhsips one's past (as well as unitary national past). Under the Buddhist influence there came about some ideas of the end of the world, reincarnation, cycle of rebirth and monastic prescriptions for reaching the ultimate stage of Nirvana - but - this was not originally Chinese.

Taosim had no prophets and no redeemers of Mankind but it did have important 'saints' like perhaps Lao-tse (the legendary founder of Taoism). It is all about balancing energies within self and without self.

"Tao" (pronounced "Dow") is basically indefinable. It has to be experienced. It "refers to a power which envelopes, surrounds and flows through all things, living and non-living. The Tao regulates natural processes and nourishes balance in the Universe. It embodies the harmony of opposites (i.e. there would be no love without hate, no light without dark, no male without female.)"

In Taoism, Tao, roughly translated as path, is a force which flows through all life and is the first cause of everything. The goal of everyone is to become one with the Tao. Tai Chi, a technique of exercise using slow deliberate movements, is used to balance the flow of energy or "chi" within the body. People should develop virtue and seek compassion, moderation and humility. One should plan any action in advance and achieve it through minimal action.

Yin (dark side) and Yang (light side) symbolize pairs of opposites which are seen through the universe, such as good and evil, light and dark, male and female. The impact of human civilization upsets the balance of Yin and Yang.

Taoists believe that people are by nature, good, and that one should be kind to others simply because such treatment will probably be reciprocated.

Taoism's focus on nature and the natural order complements the societal focus of Confucianism, and its synthesis with Buddhism is the basis of Zen.


And in his words...:

"He who lives in Tao, and Tao in him, is a good men: He keeps in good terms with men, takes things easy, loves the world as he does his own person; he is simple like an infant, cautious, modest, yielding. He is humble, and thus he remains entire. He is subtle, penetrating and profound; avoids excess, extravagance, and indulgence. He makes the self of the people his self"... he acts to the good or to the bad with goodness, and to the faithful or the faithless with faith. He returns love for great hatred"...

 

[duskiness]

Ive read about a team of anthropologists who said that there is undeniable evidence that monotheistic religions were preached all over the world, at different times in history, even among the Native tribes of North and South America!

- maybe Wilhelm Schmidt??? But i'm sorry to say, he's theory of primitive monotheism was proven wrong.

-good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are punished

- i doubt that You will find this in most of "primitive" or "etnical" religions. In history of religion this is quite a new thing..
n.

 

[Woodrow]

Monotheism was bound to happen.
People thought god lived in a tree, but the tree died.
Then the river became his home, but the river dried up.
Not a good thing for god.

People had come up with a version of god that could not be proved false

If there were multiple gods, your god could be greater than my god.
People had come up with a version of god that could not be considered inferior in any way.

Thus Monotheism came to be.

Monotheism was bound to happen.
People thought god lived in a tree, but the tree died.
Then the river became his home, but the river dried up.
Not a good thing for god.
Bad for one god, but would sure strengthen a persons belief that another God was more powerfull, and it is time to appease many gods to build an army of gods to defeat an enimies gods.




"People had come up with a version of god that could not be proved false"

As many people have done here quite often. We who believe in God, have a very difficult time in proving it to non-believers. I suspect that throughout histories, there have been many detractors against Monotheism. I think it took a bit of strong evidence to get it established by any group. It does seem it was revealed to many cultures, but most cultures refused to accept or keep it.



Somehow the existing religions tend to indicate a stronger tendency for religions to shift towards being more polytheistic. Catholochism when introduced into Haiti soon developed into VooDoo with many Gods. The concept of Saints in Christianity is seen to develope into the worship of lesser dieties. The numerous shrines throughout South America and Mexico are places of worship to these Saints by many of the People. Although the staunch Catholics will say the Saints are venerated, not worshipped. That may be the intent, but the reality is people are worshipping them. Then you take the animistic religions of India, after thousands of years new gods are added on almost a daily Basis.

Even today among the Christian world you will see a shift towards polytheism. Without even touching on the concept of the Trinity. Many Christians have some belief in powerfull spirits that need to be appeased in some manner. Although it is not acknowledged as polytheism, Some Christians do ascribe non-existant powers to Satan and Evil spirits and in doing so demonstrate a form of fear and a worship of them through fear.

When you stop and think of it, belief in a single Diety, is illogical. The magnificance and grandeur of creation, makes it very difficult to even consider that it could be created by one being. I doubt very much we would have ever developed the concept of montheism on our own, and if we did it would be very difficult to convince others to believe it. In my opinion monotheism came about and lasted only because Allah(swt) revealed Himself to mankind.

 

[HarunAlRashid]

African paganism has never been exterminated, and this is also due to the primitive spiritual state that the African slave was brought from and into.

In Africa - Islam was more successful than Christianity in converting Black Africans over - but apart from making them more eager to die - it has not saved them from the kind of savage destruction that the non-Muslim parts of sub-Saharan Africa have been engulfed in.

 

[Umar001]

I disagree. People, basically, do not like monotheism but they do like polytheism.

12:106
YUSUFALI: And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him!

 

[north_malaysian]

I disagree. People, basically, do not like monotheism but they do like polytheism. If left alone they will naturally turn to polytheism by either reviving some sort of natural magic or more likely turning to shrines and pirs and saints. You can see this is the Islamic world where Jews and Christians and Muslims all worshipped at wells, or shrines to dead holy men or mountains or whatever. Poor people, and especially the illiterate, need some sense they can control their world and religions of the Book just do not provide that. The evil eye and the Saintly shrine do.

This is why Islamic history is one long battle with shirk.

When it comes to pre-Hindu Malays, they worships trees, stones, etc. I dont know any monotheistic beliefs among Malays before Islam. But pre-Islamic elemets still exist among small minority of malay muslims nowadays.

 

[chitownmuslim]

Hmm, any evidence of that from real anthropologists or archaeologists as opposed to people doing Dawah, either Christian or Muslim?

I don't think there is the slightest evidence China was ever monotheistic. The Chinese word for society, shehui, literally means a gathering to worship the God of the (local) earth. It is a very old word.

I honestly cant give you a source for this, I read this about 2 years ago online and dont remember the source. As far as I can remember the people who claimed this werent people doing Dawah, i cant say who cuz i dont remember.

 

[chitownmuslim]

-good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are punished

- i doubt that You will find this in most of "primitive" or "etnical" religions. In history of religion this is quite a new thing..
n.

Like I said, I read this article about 2 years ago, I dont remember the exact figures and facts about the tribes that were researched, but I definitely do remember reading the above statement along with the other common characteristics i listed.

 

[Braag]

Monotheism was bound to happen.
People thought god lived in a tree, but the tree died.
Then the river became his home, but the river dried up.
Not a good thing for god.

People had come up with a version of god that could not be proved false

If there were multiple gods, your god could be greater than my god.
People had come up with a version of god that could not be considered inferior in any way.

Thus Monotheism came to be.

（Sorry Muslims, I am rude to intrude on your forum...but I think I am clearly better than those who believe the exact opposite of Plato's truth and confuse true and false...）

So, I ask you, where does death come from? Do you really think it is natural for trees to die? ? ?
Please read the death and resurrection of Osiris, Dionysus, Tammuz, and Adonis in ancient mythology. Please read the Apostles' Creed, which says "died, and was buried, descended into hell, rose again from the dead on the third day, ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty, who will come again
to judge the living and the dead."

Do you think death is natural? Which came first, death in heaven or death on earth? Death does not blaspheme the glory of God. Death itself is part of the eternal myth drama. Death does not prove atheism.

I have never given up believing that trees are not a symbol of God! I never gave up believing that trees were not a sign of God! Doesn't the death of the tree symbolize the resurrection of the Holy One from the dead? He is the only true tree, and all trees are shadows of the one true tree, which is the true vine.

People in this world are so absurd that they have turned upside down even the most basic principles... Only perfect and eternal things truly exist; matter and all imperfect things do not exist at all!

These fools who reverse the truth... They are really annoying. Not to mention atheism - they actually reverse the most basic truth like Platonism! They don't believe in perfect and eternal things, but equate imperfection with reality!

Matter does not exist, never exists - only eternal and perfect things, that is, ideas, are real. We have no power to create anything! When we think of a perfect circle, we see the only true circle, and anything on earth that looks like a circle is just a rough imitation of it - only that exists.
Similarly, all trees are just one side of the only eternal tree, and all deaths are the side of the only eternal death.
Those modern people who reverse basic logic and reverse Platonism simply cannot understand anything noble and sublime. They regard their defects as the general rule of the whole world - they doubt all real things, and the world in their eyes is just a random... I hate these modern people so much.
I hope that people today can read the works of Plato and other wise men from an early age and understand the most basic truths.

 

[Ümit]

（Sorry Muslims, I am rude to intrude on your forum...but I think I am clearly better than those who believe the exact opposite of Plato's truth and confuse true and false...）

I'm sorry, what was plato's truth again?

So, I ask you, where does death come from? Do you really think it is natural for trees to die? ? ?

Strange question. Death is normal. look around you, there is dead material everywhere. Dead is the absence of life. The actual miraculous question you should ask is: "Where does life come from?"
And what is so unnatural for a tree to die? I dont get it.

Please read the death and resurrection of Osiris, Dionysus, Tammuz, and Adonis in ancient mythology. Please read the Apostles' Creed, which says "died, and was buried, descended into hell, rose again from the dead on the third day, ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty, who will come again
to judge the living and the dead."

why?

Do you think death is natural? Which came first, death in heaven or death on earth? Death does not blaspheme the glory of God. Death itself is part of the eternal myth drama. Death does not prove atheism.

Wait, what? death in heaven or death on earth? I get the feeling you have a total different definition of "death".
we muslims have this definition for "death": the separation of the soul from the body.
We do not believe in a death in heaven.

Death does not prove atheism? who is proving atheism?

I have never given up believing that trees are not a symbol of God! I never gave up believing that trees were not a sign of God!

sure, trees are a symbol of God.

Doesn't the death of the tree symbolize the resurrection of the Holy One from the dead? He is the only true tree, and all trees are shadows of the one true tree, which is the true vine.

The death of a tree symbolizes nothing. Why are you so obsessed by death, and in particular the death of a tree?

People in this world are so absurd that they have turned upside down even the most basic principles... Only perfect and eternal things truly exist; matter and all imperfect things do not exist at all!

pff, this sentence is a perfect example of it.
the very definition of basic words are turned upside down. please define the word "to exist".
and while at it, please provide a list of "perfect and eternal things"
and what exactly is the difference between "existing" and "truly existing"?

These fools who reverse the truth... They are really annoying. Not to mention atheism - they actually reverse the most basic truth like Platonism! They don't believe in perfect and eternal things, but equate imperfection with reality!

...

Matter does not exist, never exists - only eternal and perfect things, that is, ideas, are real.

so..."ideas are real", therefore "ideas exist", therefore "ideas are perfect and eternal?"
Is that the conclusion i should make from this?

We have no power to create anything! When we think of a perfect circle, we see the only true circle, and anything on earth that looks like a circle is just a rough imitation of it - only that exists.

ok, this is the first interesting statement of the whole post. I could agree with this.
translated in my version: a circle is just a mathematical model. it is just a theory.
The circles we see in nature, even though it looks like a perfect circle, is just an approximation of the mathematical circle.

Similarly, all trees are just one side of the only eternal tree, and all deaths are the side of the only eternal death.

here we go again..."death" i get it, but what is "eternal death?"

Those modern people who reverse basic logic and reverse Platonism simply cannot understand anything noble and sublime. They regard their defects as the general rule of the whole world - they doubt all real things, and the world in their eyes is just a random...

"random" is just a sequence of events. For example, if you throw a dice, it depends on from which height, which angle, what kind of (rotational) force, what kind of material for the dice and the surface where it lands on, the smootheness of the surface, etc, etc.

if you know all these factors or events, you should be treoretically be able to calculate which number comes on top, so it cannot be random anymore. so actually, random does not exist.

I hate these modern people so much.
I hope that people today can read the works of Plato and other wise men from an early age and understand the most basic truths.

 

[Marwan-Maroc]

God is the Most Merciful, to God do I submit myself in prostration with my forehead and knees bowed down to the ground, to the Recitation of the Glorious Quran, I bow down my head and my being and cry in awe, I testify and bear witness that there is no other god besides God, none are worthy of worship except God, all praise is due to God Alone, all glory belongs to God, the Truth, the Living, the Omnipotent, to God is our certain return, God is the King and Lord and God of the heavens and the earth and all things in them.

All prophets of God delivered the same message, to worship and praise God, which is what God Commands.

Also, the fact that of the hereafter and of hell and paradise, the existence of demons and angels etc, the fact that there is no other god but God Alone, the fact that we will get judged in the hereafter - all this is fundamental Truth, the message and Knowledge being delivered to man, as clearly read in the Bible etc.

The Great Warning and Reminder - Warn the disbelievers of a severe punishment if they persist in disbelief and die disbelievers - and Remind the believers of an eternal reward, eternal Paraidse. This is the same message and knowledge being given and told by the prophets and by others.

So, seeing some monotheism in ancient China is not suprising.

However, it got destroyed in China, as we can see most of China is atheistic or buddhistic, both falsehood.

Islam is the Final and Last Religion of God to man, the only one having not been corrupted to this day.

The Bible is full of falsehood. Christianity is falsehood, mostly. Judaism is falsehood.

Buddhism is atheist-religion and fully falsehood, their monks follow a false way of life, false practises, they are not believers and therefore not to be shown any respect in matters of knowledge whatsoever, buddhist monks are fools, I am higher than all buddhist monks put togheter in matters of Knowledge and Spiritual-Experience, so is my little baby brother, lol.

Hinduism is falsehood, not makinmg clear and absolute enough the Absolute-Oneness of God, going as far as saying a human is one with God as in being identical to God (astafurkullah), they are pagans, worshiping idols and making animals holy, bowing down their heads to Hindu gurus who think and believe and act as if they are God Himself. Immense in falsehood and filth is what these hindus claim and think about themselves, to the hellfire with them, they are nothing but pigs.

And of course atheism, the highest ignorance and falsehood and filth on the face of this earth, and it's followers, the lowest of all humans, the, dummies.

Thus, I disbelieve in these religions.

And in Islam, I have believed, and that is my Religion, eternally, until my death and after, Islam (submitting to God), is, what I do.

By Testification, and by God's Will and Mercy and Goodness and Power, I have believed, I have choosen to believe, I have made the act of believing, forever, never ever to disbelieve, that I find disgusting, that I am against, that to me is IMPOSSIBLE.


To God is our absolutely certain return.