Anti-gay preachers Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps-Roper banned from Britain

[glo]

Greetings,

As can be seen from the two posts above, glo and I sometimes appear to share the same brain...



Peace

Great minds, and all that ...

 

[glo]

Greetings,

As can be seen from the two posts above, glo and I sometimes appear to share the same brain...



Peace

On a more serious note, it makes me wonder whether this shows an anxiety in our government not to let certain thoughts and ideas enter into our society (Not that in this age of technology and communication that can be achieved by preventing somebody from entering the country).

After all, societies often guard themselves against outside influences by making those very influences illegal, thereby at least slowing their spread ...

Is preventing certain ideas from entering society not the very opposite to the sentiments of democracy???

Any thoughts?

 

[Izyan]

On a more serious note, it makes me wonder whether this shows an anxiety in our government not to let certain thoughts and ideas enter into our society (Not that in this age of technology and communication that can be achieved by preventing somebody from entering the country).

After all, societies often guard themselves against outside influences by making those very influences illegal, thereby at least slowing their spread ...

Is preventing certain ideas from entering society not the very opposite to the sentiments of democracy???

Any thoughts?

And this mind set is so foreign to us Americans. As long as you aren't advocating violence like let's kill all albinos you can say what you want.

 

[glo]

And this mind set is so foreign to us Americans. As long as you aren't advocating violence like let's kill all albinos you can say what you want.

Yes, I can understand that.

Being a post-war German myself, I grew up with the idea that protecting society from certain, harmful ideas can be morally the right thing to do - and if necessary you do that by disallowing the voicing of such ideas in the first place.

I am not saying it's right or wrong. Given Germany's recent history I guess it was an understandable position to take ...

Now I live in the UK I wonder how and if the same principles should apply here.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

Yes, God has an opinion on homosexuality. And humanity has his. Some humans tolerate homosexuality, and some don't. It boils down to choice and free will. You can decide to be for or against homosexuality, and you can decide to speak of it as evil or not to be inclined to say anything about homosexuality. Jesus clearly says that we are to Love our neighbours, despite any differences. If you don't love your neighbours whos a homosexual or fundamental Christian, then your a hyprocrite. It's a matter of choice. Follow the commandments of God and respect your neighbour, or break them in defiance of the Will of God. I'd rather keep to them, and not judge homosexual or the hard line Christians.

[Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."[/B]

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Seems as if you have a disagreement with the inspired writers of the gospel... by the way there's more where this came from.

 

[glo]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Seems as if you have a disagreement with the inspired writers of the gospel... by the way there's more where this came from.

This goes back to those threads in which we discuss how Christians read and understand the Bible.

As NazariteofEhyah said Jesus' command to love our neighbours means just that - to show love and respect to all.
Spreading messages of hate and blaming certain groups of people for all ills of society is not the way to love ...

Peace

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

This goes back to those threads in which we discuss how Christians read and understand the Bible.

As NazariteofEhyah said Jesus' command to love our neighbours means just that - to show love and respect to all.
Spreading messages of hate and blaming certain groups of people for all ills of society is not the way to love ...

Peace

What do you define as spreading hate? That is a very relative phrase.

Is spreading hate telling people that God in the Bible abhors homosexuality and absolutely forbids it? That He even destroyed a city for practicing it.

Or is it saying Gays are committing evil and disgusting acts?


I am saying the former but to some the former leads to the latter statement logically.

 

[NazariteofEhyah]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

[Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."[/B]

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Seems as if you have a disagreement with the inspired writers of the gospel... by the way there's more where this came from.

Pardon me, I have not suffered at your response. In actuality you've given God's opinion and yes the Lord did say "Consecrate yourselfs and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. Keep my degrees and follow them. I am the LORD who makes you holy" Leviticus 20:7.

However, you may have overlooked Scripture. For it is said in the New Testament "These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfilment of the ages has come. So, if you think that you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fail. No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful: he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it" I Corinthians 10:11-13. NIV.

Yes, The LORD has given His Decree. We know of the perversions that were commited in defiance of the LORD. None the less, we have the choice whether or not we indulge in pagan revelry and perversion. We have examples. We have been warned through Israel's history. Let me say, if God knew that Adam and Eve would bite the apple, would we deprive us of free will. No, why then we would be robots and completely systematic. We could not appreciate Him for who He is, the LORD GOD. As per the beforementioned reference we can only be tempted by acts that are common amongst men, but with the right warning we can avoid causing offence, as we would fail in keeping ourselves with His Commandments. So, no one is to be overconfident, for anyone can sin without premeditiation. God will not contradict His Contenance. For the faithful fruits, He will give us the free will and options to become free from selfish indulgence.

Further to this "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuaive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power" I Corinthians 2:4-5. NIV. Jesus demonstrated Deities faithfulness to His faithful. We need to only depend on Him, with our faiths and not the reasoning of men, which is not the reasoning of the LORD.

More wisdom, " He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends. A rebuke impresses a man of discernment more then a hundred lashes a fool" Proverbs 17:9-10. NIV.

What does Kind Soloman's wisdom say? Simple we shouldn't view homosexuality as repugnant despite that the LORD decrees against it. For we are to tolerate such people, for they are beyond our power. They are for the dealing of the LORD. If a homosexual accepts the warning, our love for him will increase ten fold for he has faith in the the LORD GOD, who has allowed him to revert from heathenism. If a homosexual persists, then he will face the consequences.

Lastly "Blessed are those who hunger and thrist for righteousness, for they will be filled" Gospel of Matthew 5:37. NIV.

The LORD doe's not want us to be judgemental hyprocrites. For faith's sake it simple isn't righteous to judge or to take it upon ourselves to act His Decrees. Read Matthew 7.

 

[NazariteofEhyah]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

This goes back to those threads in which we discuss how Christians read and understand the Bible.

As NazariteofEhyah said Jesus' command to love our neighbours means just that - to show love and respect to all.
Spreading messages of hate and blaming certain groups of people for all ills of society is not the way to love ...

Peace

Many act without proper consideration. Jesus command is final and absolute. Contradicting the Ten Commandments and Him is paramount to rejecting the LORD altogether.

 

[NazariteofEhyah]

Re: Overcooked Viewpoints

What do you define as spreading hate? That is a very relative phrase.

Is spreading hate telling people that God in the Bible abhors homosexuality and absolutely forbids it? That He even destroyed a city for practicing it.

Or is it saying Gays are committing evil and disgusting acts?


I am saying the former but to some the former leads to the latter statement logically.

I would define "hatred" as literally take His Will into your OWN hands. Which your not meant to. Since, I believe those who accure Him so deserve to be directly answerable to Him, not us. We didn't issue Homosexuals an ultimatum to comply. He did.

 

[Muezzin]

Greetings,

Similar to what Izyan says, I think this will raise the Phelps' profile just as Wilders' profile was raised.

I'll leave a decision about whether this is justified to those of a more legal mind than me, but my gut feeling is: let them come in and show how dumb their views are, and let us all judge for ourselves.

Peace

Well, denying Mr Wilders' entry was arguably a violation of his free movement as an EU citizen, within the EU.

Phelps... immigration-wise is a little more justified, since he's not guaranteed entry anyway.

Also, in light of some of this group's escapades, I think people have a right to bury and mourn their dead relatives without having to endure the slogans of extremist nutjobs blaming it all on the existence of gays.

But that's just me.

 

[Izyan]

Well, denying Mr Wilders' entry was arguably a violation of his free movement as an EU citizen, within the EU.

Phelps... immigration-wise is a little more justified, since he's not guaranteed entry anyway.

Also, in light of some of this group's escapades, I think people have a right to bury and mourn their dead relatives without having to endure the slogans of extremist nutjobs blaming it all on the existence of gays.

But that's just me.

You're right they do. That's why here he can protest all he wants as long as he's a certain amount of distance away from the grave site as to not disturb mourners.

 

[Muezzin]

You're right they do. That's why here he can protest all he wants as long as he's a certain amount of distance away from the grave site as to not disturb mourners.

Oh?

Still, they're acting like jerks. Granted, that's not a reason to keep 'em out of the country, but I can't say I'm particularly sorry that they're not allowed in.

 

[NazariteofEhyah]

Oh?

Still, they're acting like jerks. Granted, that's not a reason to keep 'em out of the country, but I can't say I'm particularly sorry that they're not allowed in.

Despite their view's beening unpleasant. The more and more of them that I hear and see, the more tolerant and self-controlled I become. Actually these people are examples of what people should not become. If they were allowed entry in the country, they would preach hatred.