Anti-Prophet Campaign Hits Facebook

[جوري]

So seeing a double-standard makes me a simpleton eh? Well I guess its a step up. I usually get called nastier things for pointing out inconsistancies in logic

Actually it is your hypocrisy and the way you express it-- unless you were the first to advocate such groups as KKK, Neo-Nazis, Hitler lovers-- in such case we'd think your head is just not screwed on tight but hey it is your prerogative. Adjudicating from what you so freely express here in various sections, it is what you condone and what you tolerate that allows you to fall into one of two categories, neither idyllic!

 

[Isambard]

Actually it is your hypocrisy and the way you express it-- unless you were the first to advocate such groups as KKK, Neo-Nazis, Hitler lovers-- in such case we'd think your head is just not screwed on tight but hey it is your prerogative. Adjudicating from what you so freely express here in various sections, it is what you condone and what you tolerate that allows you to fall into one of two categories, neither idyllic!

Such groups have a right to exist as long as they dont break any laws. Even thou said groups do have a problem with my existance (being a former catholic, atheist, having a jewish name and being a colored minority) I still think they have a right to say whatever retarded thing that pops into their head. Just like creationists, just like 'pure' libertarians, just like communists.

They have a right to say whatever and Ill defend that, but I also have a right to call them idiots.

Where's the contradiction?

 

[Skavau]

I don't understand what against Islam for moral reasons means. what moral reasons could there possibly be against any organized age old religion? is this some sort of joke?

Same reason people find moral issues with Christianity and other religions. I presume that this specific group has issues with some of the teachings in Islam.

As I've said, I suggest you ask them.

And that is the clear purpose of such groups!

See above.

I suggest you actually ask them.

I am not talking about internet, although, I find it odd that any random person can insult your mother and you'd be ok with it.

I actually wouldn't. I would defend her integrity.

Not at all, I am inviting very likely scenarios when man kind is making and passing the laws...

So you suspect that it is simply a matter of time when laws are allocated where violence to specific people or to groups of people is in fact, an allocated right?

a few months ago in Germany and I no longer have the article will look for it though I digress, a brother had an incestuous relationship with his sister had children with her and got away with it.. his lawyer stated 'who are we to define a family unit, or what a family is?' -- we are pushing the envelope, perhaps that is what it means to be cultivated and civilized?

Incidents such as this are not the first and will not be the last.

I see it very likely down the road to kill your neighbor.. after all it started simply enough with folk like you deeming it OK TO HATE YOUR neighbor!

When did 'folk like me' ever declare such? And on what basis could you imagine that such a morally bankrupt law be passed? Many acts allowing increased sexual liberation are based upon the basis that it is none of the government's business and on the advancement of personal liberty.

How exactly would an act allowing you to kill your neighbour be morally right in any way shape or form? How on earth could it be justified? Such an act would be a direct attack on security and liberty.

don't they have anything else to do

Other than to make an anti-something which they don't believe and exist anymore.

They might. I don't know.

When you get offended why people think atheistic people generally are illogical - stuff like this kinda confirms it.

I don't get offended when I am called illogical. I just find contemptible attitudes towards me because of my metaphysical viewpoint rather unfair.

Lets see, your brain, seeing this post thought "Anti-religious, yet free speech, heck why not support it? Technically it harms no law right?". This is not the linking of a rational or logical person.

Whether or not I support this group or not is irrelevant to what reason I gave.

Firstly, is it objective?

You'd need to join and find out.

Can any good come of it?

Don't know. Depends on their purpose. I suspect the 'good' they seek though is 'bad' to some people.

We can even bet on that the people have a biased understanding of the religion itself. So what good could really come from this? Make some people happy as they throw insults about Islam between them, having a laugh?

I suggest you ask them.

Problems this can cause? Surely, most muslims should feel that their right of practicing Islam is violated by having people ridiculing their way of life, making a public awareness of being against it - for what reason? Probably very bad reasons, based on propaganda. Why should anyone have to have people against their way of life is beyond unfair.

People opposing a way of life is not the same as a government or organisation actively restricting it.

Heck, why don't I make an anti-black people group! Free speech right? Who cares if the black people get offended, aslong as I practice my free speech and I have a nice time having a laugh about black people, where is the harm?

Many communities as you described above do exist.

So, he compared, wait for it let me get a breath its quite a laugh, criticising an economic system is equal to being AGAINST a religious belief that billion+ people follow as their way of life.

Two questions:

1. Would you tolerate the existence of a group simply criticising Islam. Not attacking the adherents or Muhammad - but criticising it.
2. Do you think people ought to not attack Islam or ought not be against Islam (or any religion for that matter) by law? Or at least not be allowed to create groups which are against religion (or a specific religion?)

 

[Md Mashud]

Many communities as you described above do exist.

Doesn't make it right, irrelevant if they exist or not.

Two questions:

1. Would you tolerate the existence of a group simply criticising Islam. Not attacking the adherents or Muhammad - but criticising it.
2. Do you think people ought to not attack Islam or ought not be against Islam (or any religion for that matter) by law? Or at least not be allowed to create groups which are against religion (or a specific religion?)

TO #1, if it was constructive criticism (not insulting basless crap), which can be seen as a learning basis even, and not oppositing people to believe it or thinking that it should not exist, I see nothing wrong with it.

To give example, someone could ask me, why our prophet :saw: married a 9 year old? Isn't that wrong? - While I would not appreciate people screaming "PROPHET :SAW: is a child X Y Z" etc..

TO #2, I think speech which can create hatred amongst communites should be against the law. Free speech should have its limits, as with actions. By law many actions by humans are restricted, we don't call it denying human rights do we (take murdering, stealing, and thousands of other things). We make laws to control society. If somthing is destructive/objectivless and can cause only harm, it should be against the law. Not just on religious matters, but on racial issues and so fourth.

 

[beespreeteam]

Trouble for nothing, based on lies. Ignorant people tbh

 

[guyabano]

May I join?

Well, since nobody objects...

IMO, these groups can exist as much as a pro group. Isambard gave a good example: If you like to forbid this group, well, in the christian world, a group of muslims promoting Islam should also be banned then, in Muslim world, same from christian group.
Sad to say, one of the major problems of muslims is this narrow minded thinking: 'You are different from me, so you are evil'.
'You don't like to believe in Allah, so you will rotten in hell'

Well, from the point of view of a different religion, muslims are also disbelievers.

So, can we not just all be freinds and coexist, accept the facts that there will always be people who are different. Wasn't that a 'plan of God' to make the earth colorful instead of just black and white?

 

[Skavau]

TO #1, if it was constructive criticism (not insulting basless crap), which can be seen as a learning basis even, and not oppositing people to believe it or thinking that it should not exist, I see nothing wrong with it.

So consider this example:
A group of people who consider religion X to be dangerous and should not exist. This group of people are mature in their conduct. Should this group not exist?

To give example, someone could ask me, why our prophet :saw: married a 9 year old? Isn't that wrong? - While I would not appreciate people screaming "PROPHET :SAW: is a child X Y Z" etc..

I agree entirely. But it does not fall under inciting violence, it is just immature mud-slinging.

Do you think that satire/mockery towards religion should be banned?

 

[Md Mashud]

So consider this example:
A group of people who consider religion X to be dangerous and should not exist. This group of people are mature in their conduct. Should this group not exist?


I agree entirely. But it does not fall under inciting violence, it is just immature mud-slinging.

Do you think that satire/mockery towards religion should be banned?[/QUOTE]

Yes to the banning of mockery/satire.

As for if a group thinks a religion is dangerous. What if it really isn't dangerous and they are full of biased stuff. Islam is a religion of peace, why should they go out and offend billions of muslims because they don't know about Islam or didn't care to find out? When you are about to insult a way of life - understand it first.

As for a constructive group, never can an constructive group be called Anti-Islam, it is showing the support for the destruction if Islam. Its not called "Learning Islam" is it or "Questioning Islam" - its Anti-Islam. Why must we continue to mentally masturbate around the subject?

Also, how can PRO-groups be offensive in regarding religion? Makes no sense to me. Who are PRO-groups insulting?

 

[Skavau]

Yes to the banning of mockery/satire.

Then you wish to infringe upon free speech. Should mockery and satire be banned to other things too or just religious ideologies?

As for if a group thinks a religion is dangerous. What if it really isn't dangerous and they are full of biased stuff. Islam is a religion of peace, why should they go out and offend billions of muslims because they don't know about Islam or didn't care to find out? When you are about to insult a way of life - understand it first.

This is irrelevant. The group I bring up thoroughly believes the total opposite to what you assert. This specific group goes about their beliefs though in a mature manner. They do not insult the adherents of this religion or mock the religion itself, they simply criticise it. They do however uphold the believe that this religion is dangerous and ought not have any followers.

Why should they be banned? Because they 'offend' people? What if a lot of people are offended by having their political ideology made fun of or criticised? Should therefore satire or criticism of their political ideology be banned?

Freedom of Speech and people getting offended will inevitably happen. People have no right to ban harsh criticism or mockery because it 'offends' them. Sensitivities ought not guide the law.

As for a constructive group, never can an constructive group be called Anti-Islam, it is showing the support for the destruction if Islam. Its not called "Learning Islam" is it or "Questioning Islam" - its Anti-Islam. Why must we continue to mentally masturbate around the subject?

Referring to this group in the original post - simply because they are Anti-Islam is not warrant to have them banned. It is only warrant if they call for violence or infringe upon the code of conduct outlined in the website they established it on.

And how do you know they aren't constructive? They might actually have very good viewpoints. Or at least maturely constructed viewpoints.

Also, how can PRO-groups be offensive in regarding religion? Makes no sense to me. Who are PRO-groups insulting?

They probably aren't offensive at all.

 

[جوري]

Same reason people find moral issues with Christianity and other religions. I presume that this specific group has issues with some of the teachings in Islam.

How is it that you can defend what you don't know then?

As I've said, I suggest you ask them.

I have no interest in loaning groups as such dignity with a Q.

I actually wouldn't. I would defend her integrity.

Just a couple of posts ago,you decided you had thick skin and such happenings didn't move you one way or the other.

So you suspect that it is simply a matter of time when laws are allocated where violence to specific people or to groups of people is in fact, an allocated right?

I don't understand what that means!

Incidents such as this are not the first and will not be the last.

indeed -- what a sad state our world is in!

When did 'folk like me' ever declare such? And on what basis could you imagine that such a morally bankrupt law be passed? Many acts allowing increased sexual liberation are based upon the basis that it is none of the government's business and on the advancement of personal liberty.

You just stated you'd fight for the rights of such groups to do as they please, even if you don't agree with it.. I am just curious as to where you draw the lines? Who defines the lines for you?

H

ow exactly would an act allowing you to kill your neighbour be morally right in any way shape or form? How on earth could it be justified? Such an act would be a direct attack on security and liberty.

I don't know.. I suppose around the same time having an incestuous relationship became justified.. After all who are we to define a 'family unit'?-- That is basically what happens when you push the envelope... what is holding you or anyone back from seeing what next to get away with?

 

[جوري]

Such groups have a right to exist as long as they dont break any laws.

The purpose of such a group is to find a way to break the law. Again once you have defined a base line for 'morality' you don't cross it... once you have defined that a circle is round, you can't come and speak of its four sides.. once you have defined that a ring has a hole, you can't come and speak of how it is more of solid coin. Once you have defined that such a group's intent is to vilify, malinger and cause harm, then such a group should not be allowed to be organized.
I can't blame you for having such a jaded sense of justice.. I am not sure where your moral compass comes from?.. so rather I actually understand why you write the things that you do!
How regrettable!

 

[Isambard]

The purpose of such a group is to find a way to break the law. Again once you have defined a base line for 'morality' you don't cross it... once you have defined that a circle is round, you can't come and speak of its four sides.. once you have defined that a ring has a hole, you can't come and speak of how it is more of solid coin. Once you have defined that such a group's intent is to vilify, malinger and cause harm, then such a group should not be allowed to be organized.
I can't blame you for having such a jaded sense of justice.. I am not sure where your moral compass comes from?.. so rather I actually understand why you write the things that you do!
How regrettable!

Umm if you are referring to the facebook group, no its goal is not to break the law, rather to denounce Islam. I would say their message isnt without merit either as islam inherently is an expansionistic ideology with manifest destiny and a self proclaimed goal to censor free-speech, retard women's rights and economy, and create a lower standard of living for christians and jews and a no-no for atheists. Only reason I dont join is because I see the vision of Islam "winning" as a pipedream.

That said, unless you can prove (via quotes from the actual site) that they are promoting violence agaisnt muslims, your claims that said group is inherently about breaking laws is frivolous.

As per your assertation that mu sense of justice is 'jaded' I believe your own bias is creating a double-standard for you that you may not be aware of. Simply put, stop muslims from saying the bible and torah are corrupted and perhaps someone will take you seriously. Honestly, disliking Islam does not make one may wish harm or hold hatred on Muslims themselves just as condemning Israreli occupation does not equate anti-semitism.

 

[جوري]

Umm

a resplendent prolegomenon.. I can already tell how much thought is going to be in what follows...

if you are referring to the facebook group, no its goal is not to break the law, rather to denounce Islam.

You are a member, and know of their covert goals?

I would say their message isnt without merit either as islam inherently is an expansionistic ideology with manifest destiny and a self proclaimed goal to censor free-speech,

really where in islam does it say censor free speech? Can we like wise denounce the holocaust and with any hope, have you acclaim our rights to do so with the same bravado?

retard women's rights and economy,

Show me where in Islam it states to 'retard women and economy'.. I got to say I rather enjoy kicking your A$$ with my meager abilities.. I always retreat afterwards though to my meek and feeble Muslim self...
The most 'retarted Muslim woman' I know has a doctorate in pharmacology..What about you, what do you do?
Might be worth your while to read before you write so you are not the butt of jokes?
start here
Muslim women
And some research and studies for your viewing pleasure!

Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.




Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/p...ab_America.pdf
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/mideastcoverage.html

Seems in general the retarted Muslims are doing much better than the natives.. so how about you either do some reading or research before hurl with the usual rhetoric?

and create a lower standard of living for christians and jews and a no-no for atheists. Only reason I dont join is because I see the vision of Islam "winning" as a pipedream.

is this part of the Isambard fairytales..? please let me know when you self publish your various concoctions ! :shade:

That said, unless you can prove (via quotes from the actual site) that they are promoting violence agaisnt muslims, your claims that said group is inherently about breaking laws is frivolous.

I feel the same way about all you write... extravagantly humorous with a complete lack of relevant information or knowledge of the most basic Islamic tenets, or legal philosophies. You are just so silly and unsuccessful with all you write.. I can't imagine why you keep doing it without some minor research in any topic you attempt?

As per your assertation that mu sense of justice is 'jaded'

who is 'mu'? are you the 12th letter of the Greek alphabet?

I believe your own bias is creating a double-standard for you that you may not be aware of.

It is fresh.. an atheist with some beliefs, when did you evolve those? You confuse 'passion' about something to which one has dedicated a great many year pursuing for 'bias'-- I don't imagine you'd relate to that given your superficial knowledge of most any topic you engage!

Simply put, stop muslims from saying the bible and torah are corrupted and perhaps someone will take you seriously.

another incongruous observation that can only invite ridicule and based on a fatigued priori judgment! I don't confer dignity or honor upon anything you write to seek validation from you or your ilk. Further, I am actually home with my clan, thus I believe you are the one averting from your own fatuity!

Honestly, disliking Islam does not make one may wish harm or hold hatred on Muslims themselves just as condemning Israreli occupation does not equate anti-semitism.

Noun: semite
A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa...
seems a little preposterous that you'd even use that analogy for an example given the actual literal meaning of the word?... I only used it really to highlight what an ignoramus you are.. that even the examples you give to tie it all together for us are ailing, and nonsensical as your entire philosophy.

 

[snakelegs]

Simply put, stop muslims from saying the bible and torah are corrupted and perhaps someone will take you seriously.

i'm curious - as an atheist, why do you care if muslims say the bible and torah are corrupted?

 

[The_Prince]

i'm curious - as an atheist, why do you care if muslims say the bible and torah are corrupted?

hint hint

 

[Isambard]

i'm curious - as an atheist, why do you care if muslims say the bible and torah are corrupted?

Its not so much I have a problem with muslim theology, I just hate hypocrites

 

[Isambard]

You are a member, and know of their covert goals?

The article mentioned some of their beliefs, now produce some evidence that they intend physical harm to muslims or you are just pulling stuff out of your rear in regards to your previous statement that they wish to break the law.


really where in islam does it say censor free speech? Can we like wise denounce the holocaust and with any hope, have you acclaim our rights to do so with the same bravado?

Lets see, if I convert to islam, then decide it isnt for me and speak out agaisnt the taught ideology what will happen to me?

Show me where in Islam it states to 'retard women and economy'.. I got to say I rather enjoy kicking your A$$ with my meager abilities.. I always retreat afterwards though to my meek and feeble Muslim self...
The most 'retarted Muslim woman' I know has a doctorate in pharmacology..What about you, what do you do?
Might be worth your while to read before you write so you are not the butt of jokes?

I said retard women's rights and economy. I would comment further but you just pwned yourself. Well done

And some research for your viewing pleasure!

I believe this will help you in further endeavors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension

Seems in general the retarted Muslims are doing much better than the natives.. so how about you either do some reading or research before hurl with the usual rhetoric?

As I have shown, you are fighting windmills

is this part of the Isambard fairytales..? please let me know when you self publish your various concoctions ! :shade:

hmm what is the name of the tax Jews and Christians have to pay under Shar'ia? And to what degree are they allowed to promote their religion?

I feel the same way about all you write... extravagantly humorous with a complete lack of relevant information or knowledge of the most basic Islamic tenets, or legal philosophies. You are just so silly and unsuccessful with all you write.. I can't imagine why you keep doing it without some minor research in any topic you attempt?


I suggest you take your own advice.


It is fresh.. an atheist with some beliefs, when did you evolve those? You confuse 'passion' about something to which one has dedicated a great many year pursuing for 'bias'-- I don't imagine you'd relate to that given your superficial knowledge of most any topic you engage!

"A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective. However, one is generally only said to be biased if one's powers of judgment are influenced by the biases one holds, to the extent that one's views could not be taken as being neutral or objective, but instead as subjective. A bias could, for example, lead one to accept or deny the truth of a claim, not on the basis of the strength of the arguments in support of the claim themselves, but because of the extent of the claim's correspondence with one's own preconceived ideas. This is called confirmation bias."

Lets see, Muslims can create groups on Facebook promoting Islam while denouncing Atheism, while athiests cant create a group promoting atheism and denouncing Islam. You are right, that makes perfect sense and is perfectly fair, how did I ever accuse you of a bias?

another incongruous observation that can only invite ridicule and based on a fatigued priori judgment! I don't confer dignity or honor upon anything you write to seek validation from you or your ilk. Further, I am actually home with my clan, thus I believe you are the one averting from your own fatuity!

O my! While you were busy exposing and flashing your er..umm "dignity and honour (lol) you forgot to address the point in any sort of relevant way. Its ok, that tends to happen when one has nothing to say.


Noun: semite
A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa...
seems a little preposterous that you'd even use that analogy for an example given the actual literal meaning of the word?... I only used it really to highlight what an ignoramus you are.. that even the examples you give to tie it all together for us are ailing, and nonsensical as your entire philosophy.

Cute, but its a red herring. You complaining about folks not liking Islamic principles and ideology and by default making them dangerous is the same as those who complain that not liking zionism = anti-jewish sentiment ( this is to help you, I know you have trouble focusing on actual points and arguements.).

With that said, I give you this.
http://dev.freeverse.com/~hip/images/pwnage.png

Open with care my dear

 

[snakelegs]

Its not so much I have a problem with muslim theology, I just hate hypocrites

isn't it a bit hypocritical for an atheist to object to something in one religion's theology that is saying that scripture in some other religions' scriptures has been corrupted?

 

[Isambard]

isn't it a bit hypocritical for an atheist to object to something in one religion's theology that is saying that scripture in some other religions' scriptures has been corrupted?

Well, you could always substitue it with theists saying that Atheists are amoral/immoral and just live to satisfy their urges.

 

[snakelegs]

how is that hypocritical? it is just their belief.