Arabic Question

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

As always Insaanah, thanks!

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

I'm back

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1.4 Line 2:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]وَخَرَجَ النّاَسُ لِلْعِيْدِ وَخَرَجَ الأطْفَالُ[/FONT]


p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wa kharaja an-naasu lil 'eidi wa kharaja al atfaalu[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I suppose this is a pretty minor question, but why is it 'lil eidi' and not 'li eidi'? What's that second lam doing there? Is it for pronunciation purposes?
[/FONT]

 

[Insaanah]

The word is الْعِيْد , al-Eid. The people went out for "the festival", hence the الْ in front of عِيْد .

The لِ (li) means "for".

So, we now have li + al, لِ + الْ meaning, "for the".

When li +al, لِ + الْ , come together, the ا of "الْ" is lost, leaving just "lil."

And al-Eid is in jarr because of li.

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

Ah, of course, I missed the fact it was al-eid and not just eid.

Thanks

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1.4 Line 9:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]وَتَرَكَ إبْرَاهِيمُ الصَنَمَ الأَكبَرَ وَعَلَّقَ الفَأْسَ فِي عُنُقِهِ[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wa taraka Ibraheemu as-sanama al akbara wa a'laqa al-fa'asa fii u'nuqihi[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My question is regarding the end of the sentence, fii u3nuqihi. U3nuq is in jarr because of fii, right? Hence u3nuqi. What does the 'hii' at the end mean? Is it 'her'? I was thinking it was because as-sanama is treated singular feminine, but I'm not sure...[/FONT]

 

[Insaanah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]U3nuq is in jarr because of fii, right? Hence u3nuqi.

Yes.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What does the 'hii' at the end mean? Is it 'her'? [/FONT]

No. ها is "her".

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I was thinking it was because as-sanama is treated singular feminine, but I'm not sure...[/FONT]

الصَنَمَ here is masculine. I think you're thinking of plurals of irrational/unintelligent objects being treated as feminine singular.

This is not a plural, but one idol. "And Ibraheem left the biggest idol..."

Let's look at those words in the marfoo3 state. عُنُقُهُ , meaning his/it's (the idol's) neck.

I think you may be familiar with the هُ at the end as a pronoun for "his".

Now, when the word before the pronoun هُ ends in kasrah, for whatever reason, the هُ becomes هِ , hence فِي عُنُقِهِ, as the last letter of 3unuq, the qaaf, has a kasrah. And it still means exactly the same.

You can imagine, فِي عُنُقِهِ sounds much easier on the tongue than فِي عُنُقِهُ.

Similarly, هُمْ would become هُمَا, هِمْ would become هِمَا , and هُنَّ would become هِنَّ , when preceded by a word ending in kasrah on the last letter.[/FONT]

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

Yes.


No. ها is "her".



الصَنَمَ here is masculine. I think you're thinking of plurals of irrational/unintelligent objects being treated as feminine singular.

This is not a plural, but one idol. "And Ibraheem left the biggest idol..."

Let's look at those words in the marfoo3 state. عُنُقُهُ , meaning his/it's (the idol's) neck.

I think you may be familiar with the هُ at the end as a pronoun for "his".

Now, when the word before the pronoun هُ ends in kasrah, for whatever reason, the هُ becomes هِ , hence فِي عُنُقِهِ, as the last letter of 3unuq, the qaaf, has a kasrah. And it still means exactly the same.

You can imagine, فِي عُنُقِهِ sounds much easier on the tongue than فِي عُنُقِهُ.

Similarly, هُمْ would become هُمَا, هِمْ would become هِمَا , and هُنَّ would become هِنَّ , when preceded by a word ending in kasrah on the last letter.

Thank you, that was very clear.

So would it be the same concept if the word before the pronoun ended in a fat'ha? Would the pronouns then adopt a fat'ha?

 

[Insaanah]

So would it be the same concept if the word before the pronoun ended in a fat'ha? Would the pronouns then adopt a fat'ha?

No, they don't change if preceded by a fat'hah, only kasrah.

See this example, in red below, from Sural al-Inshiqaaq, surah 84 ayah 7:

فَأَمَّا مَنْ أُوتِىَ كِتَـبَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ

"Then as for he who is given his record in his right hand,"

The pronoun is still "hu" when preceded by fat'hah (red example), and changes to "hi" when preceded by a kasrah (blue example)

The blue illustrates what we discussed earlier.

Also, just to add that ها never changes, regardless of if there is a fat'hah, dammah or kasrah preceding it.

 

[Kauthar]

Asslam Alikum
It's answered already ^__^ oh, and the answer is better than me
So , you know now I'm happy for you .
Alhamduli Allah

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

Thanks Insaanah, the examples you gave were very helpful.

So , you know now I'm happy for you .
Alhamduli Allah

Indeed, I'm very happy as well! Alhamdulillah.

Okay, I was reading al quran earlier today, and saw the following verse: 3:97

فيه ءايت بينت مقام ابرهيم ومن دخله كان ءامنا ولله على الناس حج البيت من استطاع اليه سبيلا ومن كفر فان الله غنى عن العلمين

Feehi ayatun bayyinatunmaqamu ibraheema waman dakhalahu kana aminanwalillahi AAala alnnasi hijjualbayti mani istataAAa ilayhi sabeelan waman kafarafa-inna Allaha ghaniyyun AAani alAAalameena

I'm trying to recognise tense effectively when I read Arabic. Every translation I've seen for the above says: "whoever enters it is safe".

The verb dakhala is maadi, right? So why is it not translated "whoever entered it would be safe"?

Thanks
​

 

[Insaanah]

Okay, I was reading al quran earlier today, and saw the following verse: 3:97

فيه ءايت بينت مقام ابرهيم ومن دخله كان ءامنا ولله على الناس حج البيت من استطاع اليه سبيلا ومن كفر فان الله غنى عن العلمين

I'm trying to recognise tense effectively when I read Arabic. Every translation I've seen for the above says: "whoever enters it is safe".

The verb dakhala is maadi, right? So why is it not translated "whoever entered it would be safe"?​

The Qur'an frequently employs the past tense to denote the future, and particularly so in passages which speak of the coming of the Last Hour and of Resurrection Day, but also in other contexts too; this use of the past tense is meant to stress the certainty of the happening to which the verb relates. Sometimes the past tense is used to denote both past and future. In other words, as certain as it is that the past has happened, this will happen with that same certainty. The past tense can aso be used to denote a wish or du3a, eg rahimahullah (may Allah have mercy on him) but literally it means "Allah had mercy on him." And there may be other reasons for using the past tense too.

When Allah has chosen tenses in the Qur'an they have been for a reason. There may be other reasons too why the past tense has been chosen here.

If you look at Surah Quraysh, Allah reminds people that at the time, nowhere in Arabia was safe, attacks, looting, killing, robbery, kidnapping, all these things were rife..yet look at the House of Allah in your midst, by virtue of it anyone in it was safe, and the Quraysh themselves could pass safely through Arabia on their trade jouneys, once it were known they were from the Quraysh. No one dared molest them. They could see the safety and security this house had brought them. It was a sign for them to consider. Thus they should worship the Lord of this House.

The fact that whoever entered it was safe was a sign for them to consider. It would also continue to be safe for those entering it in the same manner as the past.

A couple of other examples from the Qur'an (although there are many more):

LaqeeyTum - you Face the enemy (past tense / MaaDiy). This past tense emphasises that this future event will Certainly happen as the past itself [i.e. there is no doubt that the past happened, and there is no doubt that you will face the enemy].

aDalla - wasteD - this is a past tense statement.
It is in regard to future events too, but it is said in past tense because it is of a Surety - as Certain as the past itself.

From: http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/1...47-miracle-dream-tafseer-nouman-ali-khan.html

# Arabs used past tense for several reasons
# One of them is when something is guaranteed
# The past is associated with certainty, the future is not

The second is to refer to a dua

* That is why you’ll sometimes find the ayah translated as May both hands of Abu Lahab be destroyed

Since the past is used to guarantee something, this verse is not only saying that His wealth and assets did not benefit him at all it is also saying that it will not benefit him

From:
http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/134297426-surah-lahab-111-dream-student-notes-nouman-ali-khan.html

So, not only whoever entered it was safe, but also whoever will enter it will be safe/secure with the same certainty as those who entered it in the past. As I have stressed before, there may also be other reasons.

See this link too re: use of the past tense to denote the future in the Qur'an:

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/142741/past tense

I hope if others who are more knowledgable have more input, they will add it inshaa'Allah, and may Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong.

 

[Ceeray]

Wsalaam,

MashAllah, that was well explained.

So I take it all the translators looked at the general meaning of the verse when translating, as opposed to strictly grammatical structure.

Does that mean that potentially you could read it as "entered and would be safe"? Meaning, there wouldn't be a grammatical fault with reading it as such?

 

[Insaanah]

Does that mean that potentially you could read it as "entered and would be safe"? Meaning, there wouldn't be a grammatical fault with reading it as such?

When you are reading it, you are reading the Arabic as is, as a maadi (past tense) verb. That is how we are supposed to read it, literally as is, and always has been and will be.

If you mean understanding that past tense verb as meaning "whoever entered it would be safe", I honestly don't know. I've never heard it translated like that, and we must be careful before applying our own translations. I would stick to the translations we already have, and read a few of them, as well as seeking to increase our knowledge of Arabic. We are but students...

I hope other more knowledgable members will add something also if anything else also needs to be said.

And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.

 

[breezes]

سلام عليكم ورحمة الله
brothers and sisters
it's a good thread, really i ask allah to bless you in this
finally a have a Question ;
what is the translation of the hud hud in in english ?

thanks

 

[Insaanah]

سلام عليكم ورحمة الله brothers and sisters
it's a good thread, really i ask allah to bless you in this
finally a have a Question ;
what is the translation of the hud hud in in english ?

thanks

:wasalamex

Hud hud is translated as Hoopoe in English. You can read more about the bird here.

Sahih International
And he took attendance of the birds and said, "Why do I not see the hoopoe - or is he among the absent?

Muhsin Khan
He inspected the birds, and said: "What is the matter that I see not the hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees?

Pickthall
And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I see not the hoopoe, or is he among the absent?

Yusuf Ali
And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees?

Surah al-Naml (Surah 27, ayat 20)

Baaraka Allahu feeki.

 

[breezes]

[وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
jazaki allah kheir sis

Baaraka Allahu feeki.

and u :sunny:

 

[Ceeray]

Salaam,

I had to take a break from my Arabic studies due to other commitments, but alhamdulillah I've sorted that out now.

Quick question regarding gendered nouns.

dayfihi means 'his guests'. The noun is masculine. If his guests happened to be female, does the noun take on a feminine form, or does dayf remain the same regardless of the gender of the guests?

 

[iman1981]

Salam,

is it not in reference to the sanam? meaning that that sanam is singular male because it is jamaa taksir when it is plural - plural sanam is asnam - unukihi is his....don;t know if that makes sense but that what i thought it was in reference to. I hope that helps inshaAllah - my arabic is starting to get a little rusty as i've not practiced

Iman


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1.4 Line 9:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]وَتَرَكَ إبْرَاهِيمُ الصَنَمَ الأَكبَرَ وَعَلَّقَ الفَأْسَ فِي عُنُقِهِ[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wa taraka Ibraheemu as-sanama al akbara wa a'laqa al-fa'asa fii u'nuqihi[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My question is regarding the end of the sentence, fii u3nuqihi. U3nuq is in jarr because of fii, right? Hence u3nuqi. What does the 'hii' at the end mean? Is it 'her'? I was thinking it was because as-sanama is treated singular feminine, but I'm not sure...[/FONT][/QUOTE]

 

[Insaanah]

dayfihi means 'his guests'. The noun is masculine. If his guests happened to be female, does the noun take on a feminine form, or does dayf remain the same regardless of the gender of the guests?

I presume there is a harf jarr before dayfihi, otherwise it would be dayfuhu in it's normal marfoo3 state. Assuming it is majroor:

dayfihi means 'his guests'.

It actually means 'his guest' (singular). If you wanted to say 'his guests' you would say duyoofihi.

If his guests happened to be female, does the noun take on a feminine form, or does dayf remain the same regardless of the gender of the guests?

There is a feminine derivative of dayf, which is dayfah (dayfatun with tanween), so if you used that, 'his guest' (female) would be dayfatihi. I don't know if dayfah has a plural such as dayfaat. Perhaps a more knowledgable member might be able to help us out here.

It may be the case that the male form, both singular (dayf) and plural (duyoof), apart from being used for male guests, and a mixture of male and female guests, can also be used for exclusively female guests as well, but let's await clarification on that.

Sorry this doesn't help much.