Are morals derived from religion/God??

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Philosopher said:
If so, I have 2 questions:

1.) How come there are different religions with different moral codes?
2.) How come atheists are moral beings?

Thanks
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I believe 1) humans developed in differnt areas and came up with some different ideas. And 2) It's more beneficial to be social (moral) than unsocial so general adaption of emapthy, and other feelings for positive social behavior, led to better survivability.

Probably already been thrown out there, but wanted to give you my thoughts uncolored by reading the other posts.

Thanks.
 
Philosopher said:
Actually it is the other way around. Laws are derived from morals. Why do you think murder is illegal? It is BECAUSE they are immoral.

For those who say atheists are immoral -- why do you think atheists believe rape, murder, stealing etc are all immoral acts??
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I would kinda agree with you there. I think its kind of a give and take bit though. We grow up in a socieity that has laws and we often derive our morals from those laws. But the other way is true too. If we were born on a deserted island we would not go causing caos but as long as we lived in a society we would create our own morals. Of course if you were in competition with another "tribe" you may do many immoral things to them but not to your society. So basically morals are personal laws.
 
Philosopher said:
In my opinion, atheists by default are immoral creatures. Atheists are the product of their lifetime.That is why they adopt religious morals into their own worldview.
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Evidence? Though shall not kill existed long before any religion said it. As has been posted in other threads "im pretty sure it has" morality is usally a result of social behavior and survival.

Not to mention that atheists make up a smaller percent of the prison population than what they are of the US population. From your opinion you would expect to see more. Instead the majority of prisoners are of christian background and in far greater percentages than what they make up of the US population. Ill try to find a source later if you want.
 
Philosopher said:
Do you have any evidence for that?
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Well lets look at other apes. They have social groups and they dont go about killing each other. Instead they live in a social group that aids in survival.

Not to mention that humans have existed long before christianity, islam and many others.
 
ranma1/2 said:
Well lets look at other apes. They have social groups and they dont go about killing each other. Instead they live in a social group that aids in survival.

Not to mention that humans have existed long before christianity, islam and many others.
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We can look at other animals though. Many animals are cannibals, interbreed and some even eat their excretions.
 
Philosopher said:
We can look at other animals though. Many animals are cannibals, interbreed and some even eat their excretions.
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Um humans do that too, interbreed, eat other humans, and some eat their own poo. Heck christianity in some of its forms support canablism. But now your getting off of topic. We are talking about morality. Other animals can act "moral" without a god.
 
ranma1/2 said:
Um humans do that too, interbreed, eat other humans, and some eat their own poo. Heck christianity in some of its forms support canablism. But now your getting off of topic. We are talking about morality. Other animals can act "moral" without a god.
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Those cases are extremely rare and humans have enough common sense to know these acts are immoral.

Also, do you also have evidence that animals dont have their own dogmas?
 
Philosopher said:
Those cases are extremely rare and humans have enough common sense to know these acts are immoral.

Also, do you also have evidence that animals dont have their own dogmas?
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wow so all we neeed is common sense, well i guess you just proved my point.

And as for animal dogma. Currently their is no known non human animal religious text. Even if they do it would be clear that they had to make their own up unless your saying there are other gods?
 
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Hey Ranma. :) If you've read my first post - you'll realise that Islaam has always been the religion of ALL the Prophets of God; including Adam (the first human), Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad etc. all 124,000 of them.


Ruggedtouch, your articles don't mean nothing - because all of them have been refuted, and the praise is due to Allaah for that. It seems as if you're just on a hate spree. So if you want to continue that, then please do so elsewhere.


Regards.
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
Hey Ranma. :) If you've read my first post - you'll realise that Islaam has always been the religion of ALL the Prophets of God; including Adam (the first human), Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad etc. all 124,000 of them.


Ruggedtouch, your articles don't mean nothing - because all of them have been refuted, and the praise is due to Allaah for that. It seems as if you're just on a hate spree. So if you want to continue that, then please do so elsewhere.


Regards.
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Thats very fine and nice to say but there is no evidence of that apart from the quran which is not good evidence.
 
ranma1/2 said:
Thats very fine and nice to say but there is no evidence of that apart from the quran which is not good evidence.
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At least we have some kind of evidence. You have no evidence at all to suggest that the concept of murder being evil existed before any religion did. :thumbs_up
 
Malaikah said:
At least we have some kind of evidence. You have no evidence at all to suggest that the concept of murder being evil existed before any religion did. :thumbs_up
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Wait we are talking about if morals are derived from god or religion. I have shown that creatures withour religion have morals. And religions with out an actual god is no different from atheism in their source of morality.
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
Hey Ranma. :) If you've read my first post - you'll realise that Islaam has always been the religion of ALL the Prophets of God; including Adam (the first human), Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad etc. all 124,000 of them.


Ruggedtouch, your articles don't mean nothing - because all of them have been refuted, and the praise is due to Allaah for that. It seems as if you're just on a hate spree. So if you want to continue that, then please do so elsewhere.


Regards.
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We've got one clueless bozo steering the threads to a direction of his desires... The articles can't be verified from any ACCURATE historical record. Another of numerous conjectures to fit the tides, from someone with an obvious agenda.
Makes you wonder the underlying psychology of people who would go so far to color history with their own visions of what they wish happened. What an embarrassment to admit to the world that you are willing to go so low to prove how much hatred is brewing there in your heart! Or maybe just counting that we'll be as under educated as he?
 
The so-called moral code of the animals is defined as instincts not morals! A moral is sanctioned by or operated on one's conscience or ethical judgment... What animal do for survival whether they stay in groups, hunt together is done solely for their survival as a specie not because they want to socialize over a cup of coffee and a bagel.. their so-called "moral" codes are concrete not abstract....

Sobhan Allah -- people are dignified through religion yet some still wish to subscribe to the habits of animals-- wonders never cease!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
The so-called moral code of the animals is defined as instincts not morals! A moral is sanctioned by or operated on one's conscience or ethical judgment...
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What a silly assumption to make. How could you possibly know that nonhuman animals don't ponder the morality of certain actions? We do it. We're animals. Seems only natural that other animals would also do it, at least to some degree.
 
The articles can't be verified from any ACCURATE historical record. Another of numerous conjectures to fit the tides, from someone with an obvious agenda.
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That's the unfortunate thing about deleting his posts. You may very well be right, but nobody is going to take your word for it, given your less than polite hostility towards him. So with his posts deleted we are all left wondering if they actually were of any value.
 
this is simply my understanding, if you disagree then lets respect the difference in opinion.

Philosopher said:
1.) How come there are different religions with different moral codes?
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every religion considers itself to be the truth, every religion considers the other religion to either be false or a distorted copy of the true religion. Thus in the same way every religion considers itself to have the best moral code (well us muslims certainly take this stance) whilst others will disagree. Going into discussion as to what makes our religion moral and the others immoral is a completely different topic but to just mention a little, we believe our religion is most fair and is from the true creator of all of creation. to prove this is again a lengthy discussion.

2.) How come atheists are moral beings?
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Atheists consider themselves to be moral according to whos guideline? According to the law of society? secular law? their own manmade law? If morality was to be defined by man then it should be accepted that the moral code has changed innumerable times throughout existence.

I as a muslim, according to the guideline of Islam, believe that the moral code which never changes (the one set out in Quran Majeed) dictates that all Atheists are immoral.

Below are a few points why:

*they allow drinking
*Dating
*Fornicating
*Usury
*No sense of jelousy for their women (ie allow them to dress tarty etc)

There are many more points but i dont want to offend people too much.
 

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