Are Science and Religion opposites?

[Ahmad H]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

Science and religion are two very separate things. It isn't that one should take scientific evidence over the Qur'an, if science agrees with the Qur'an then it can be counted as true. There are a lot of errors in observation among humans. We are very limited. Allah has granted the scientists of this age a lot of knowledge, but they are blind in all spiritual matters. So as far as science is concerned, it is wise to listen to them since they are experts and not anyone here (unless they are qualified PhDs). But as far as their opinions on religion is concerned, they have no authority to speak against the belief in God.

They claim themselves some sort of authority on the belief in God because they observe nature. It is really absurd when you think about it. It really is a challenge towards God that they have made. In fact, I would go so far as to say they try to place themselves in God's place because they think they are so powerful with their wisdom. They say things like, "We're playing God" when they play with animals genetics placing one set of genes into another animal to bring an odd result, or when they make the sky rain with lasers (which is being researched), when they make it so that people who are very much dead come back to life with new medical technology, finding vasts reserves of wealth around the world and keeping it for themselves, coming up with new crop technologies and growing vast quantities of food while leaving the rest of the world hungry, etc.

Kind of reminds me of something which Rasul-e-Karim (saw) mentioned, can you guess?^o)

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

It isn't that one should take scientific evidence over the Qur'an, if science agrees with the Qur'an then it can be counted as true. There are a lot of errors in observation among humans. We are very limited.

We are also limited in our understanding of the entirety of the Qur'an per ayat 3:7 "He it is Who has sent down to you the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah..." There are verses that are allegorical and yet are sometimes interpreted literally in opposition to what is known scientifically such as 23:14 "...then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh..." unless a person more knowledgeable of human embryology than me can verify this ayat is literally factual.

Allah has granted the scientists of this age a lot of knowledge, but they are blind in all spiritual matters. So as far as science is concerned, it is wise to listen to them since they are experts and not anyone here (unless they are qualified PhDs). But as far as their opinions on religion is concerned, they have no authority to speak against the belief in God.

And, according to you, are all scientists 'blind in all spiritual matters' and therefore atheists? Science and faith in God are not mutually exclusive.

They claim themselves some sort of authority on the belief in God because they observe nature. It is really absurd when you think about it. It really is a challenge towards God that they have made. In fact, I would go so far as to say they try to place themselves in God's place because they think they are so powerful with their wisdom. They say things like, "We're playing God" when they play with animals genetics placing one set of genes into another animal to bring an odd result, or when they make the sky rain with lasers (which is being researched), when they make it so that people who are very much dead come back to life with new medical technology, finding vasts reserves of wealth around the world and keeping it for themselves, coming up with new crop technologies and growing vast quantities of food while leaving the rest of the world hungry, etc.

You actually reveal a lack of understanding. Do you not know that some scientists look at the intricacies of life or the vastness of the universe itself at levels that are utterly incomprehensible to the general public and that this understanding reinforces their faith in God? Ayat 2:164 illustrates this point as in "...in the changing of the winds and clouds that run their appointed courses between the sky and earth: there are signs in all these for those who use their minds." Do you not think scientists use their minds more than most people and rather instead say, "Glory to God, the Creator of all that exists!"? Scientists definitely do not claim, "We're playing God". Do you not understand that man can do nothing except that it is the will of God that it should come to pass? Yes, scientists have taken genes from one species and genetically engineered other species to express those genes and nuclear physicists have produced nuclear explosive devices that can instantly incinerate millions of people, but they are not able to do a single thing contrary to the will of God. Conventional breeding of turkeys has resulted in animals that are incapable of natural breeding due to extremely large breast that are much in demand as Butterball turkeys on Thanksgiving. Genetic engineering just takes this genetic manipulation to the next level to produce changes that are beneficial either to the producer or consumer of these animals and plants.

Kind of reminds me of something which Rasul-e-Karim (saw) mentioned, can you guess?^o)

I assume you are talking about Dajjal splitting a person in two then bringing him back to life.

 

[Ahmad H]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

I understand very well that science can do a lot of good for mankind. I am not against science. I am against how scientists use science to use as a ruse against religion and the very idea of religion - that is why I said what I said.

Scientists definitely do not claim, "We're playing God"

Scientists do in fact say things like this. Look at the video here on this article:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/tech/...ke-rain-with-lasers/index.html?iref=allsearch

Perhaps not all scientists feel this way, but it becomes natural that when one interferes in the running of nature in so many ways, then they become elated and start to think that God doesn't control anything and that anything can be controlled by man when he puts his mind to it. That is what is meant by 'playing God'.

We humans are very limited in our observations. As for the Qur'an, you brought up verse 3:7. Why would a sign which Allah gave to us to see in the universe around us be given in an allegorical verse? Honestly, I don't see any sense in that. If Allah wanted us to not understand the universe around us, show us a verse which He will never allow us to understand, then I guess it would have been better to leave the verse out of the Qur'an in the first place. But that's not the case. It would eb against the wisdom of Allah to tell us a sign that we wouldn't benefit from.

It isn't as if a scientist who understands even the Arabic of the Qur'an and some Tafsir wouldn't be able to see the connection between what the Qur'an says and what he observed in nature. It is really silly to say that no one will understand the signs mentioned in the Qur'an related to humans and the universe.

 

[MustafaMc]

As for the Qur'an, you brought up verse 3:7. Why would a sign which Allah gave to us to see in the universe around us be given in an allegorical verse?

You completely missed my point which is that some verses of the Qur'an have a meaning that only Allah knows, for example can you tell me the meaning of the ayat 36:1 Ya-Sin. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].? In the same way that our scientific knowledge is incomplete, so also is our understanding of the Qur'an in its entirety. What I wrote about signs and ayat was meant to show that some scientists can see what they know from scientific studies and knowledge evidence for a Creator instead of a completely naturalistic,undirected processas the means for the origin of the species.

I have never heard a scientist say he is playing God and if he did so in ignorance there is no denying that his knowledge and success in his efforts came from none other than Allah. I have some knowledge of taking a gene from a bacteria, genetically engineering it and transforming a plant to express that gene. I also have the means through conventional breeding to combine traits into a single plant that most likely does not exist anywhere in nature. The same can be said for the scientists who first took unrefined oil and made gasoline that does not exist in nature, but is beneficial to man through powering automobiles and trucks.

Scientists do in fact say things like this. Look at the video here on this article:

The scientist in the video did use this phrase, but then he went on to explain the limits of making rain with lasers, particularly being dependent on a certain level of humidity already being present and the limitation on sphere of influence. I see that this phrase is in itself allegorical as man is capable of exerting considerable control over the environment such as irrigating crops, building massive dams, generating electricity, extracting minerals, oil and natural gas from the earth that no other creature can do. However, we are dependent upon God for our means and ability to do so. When a scientist comes up with a novel idea or make a new invention, he should not boast of his achievement but rather acknowledge his dependence on God for his successes.

 

[Ahmad H]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

As for the scientists who come up with discoveries to help humankind, yes, I do believe that. But a lot of them do not believe in God, so they use science to deny God. I'm starting to think you keep missing my point on purpose. Have you been to a bookstore and went to the science book section, and seen just how many more books have recently popped up by Dawkins and others to try and disprove the existence of God using science? There are a lot. This is just one avenue being used to eradicate religion altogether. Some of these Biologists and Physicists really try their utmost best to make religion seem irrational. This includes Islam, it is not just Christianity which they are after.

Haven'e you seen this side of things at all though? If you live in the US, surely you went to a Chapters before or whatever chain of bookstores and seen how these sections of science books which used to focus on purely scientific knowledge now have books on which they speak against the existence of God as well. These same people may have been given their knowledge from Allah, but you should remember that not everyone is grateful for the favors which Allah shows them. Instead they create Fitnah for the Muslims, most specially the Muslim youth who know very little about their own religion.

 

[Insaanah]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.



While there are many scientists who do not believe in God, and that may be the popular notion, there are esteemed scientists like our brother MustafaMc and others here, for whom science makes them proclaim sub'haanallah at their Lords creation. Let's not put them all into the same boat.

 

[Ahmad H]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

While there are many scientists who do not believe in God, and that may be the popular notion, there are esteemed scientists like our brother MustafaMc and others here, for whom science makes them proclaim sub'haanallah at their Lords creation. Let's not put them all into the same boat.

You and MustafaMc still do not see what I said because you've come to your own opinion. I never put all scientists in the same boat. He knows that because he must have read what I wrote and understood that I wasn't hinting at the believing scientists. My point was that <<There are arrogant scientists who challenge God>> It is not a point of dispute, it is the truth and it is reality. Trying to argue out of it is itself blinding oneself to the truth.

 

[Insaanah]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.



Posts predominantly on the huroof muqatti'aat (letters that begin some surahs of the Qur'an) and allegorical verses have been moved to a new thread, with some posts edited accordingly, to avoid taking this one off topic:

http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/134319984-huroof-muqattiaat-allegorical-verses.html

 

[truthseeker63]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

Science and Religion are not opposites in my view.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

SubhanAllah.. God is beyond what we can measure.

Assalamu alaikum, Yes, God's existence is beyond our comprehension. The best that I can imagine is another dimension of existence that may be somewhat approximated by our dreams.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

While there are many scientists who do not believe in God

Assalamu alaikum, Sister Insaanah, you and I acknowledge there are some scientists who do not believe in God; however, you are correct that there are others "for whom science makes them proclaim sub'haanallah at their Lords creation". The same can be said for any other profession with medical doctors coming to mind as perhaps being arrogant in holding another life in their hands.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

Science and Religion are not opposites. But Science and Revelation are opposites.

Science works from the bottom up, forming theories, testing them, trying to take nothing on authority, seeing faith (assumptions) as a limitation, constantly changing and revising, and never claiming absolute perfect truth.

Revelation works from the top down, dictating what is true, taking everything on authority, holding faith as a virtue, resisting change and revision, and claiming to have absolute and perfect truth.

Science and Religion can be compatible. But they look at the world from opposite points of view.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

Science and Religion are not opposites. But Science and Revelation are opposites.

I see that science and religion are not opposites, but that they are concerned with different things and principles. Measuring a person's height and weight, and observing the color of his skin, hair and eyes can be seen as an analogy for science while having some sense of his personality, morality, likes and dislikes, ambitions, etc can be seen as an analogy for religion. Science is concerned about the physical world while religion is concerned about the metaphysical world. The limitations of science can be illustrated by the movie "Flatliners" when one of the medical students "becomes obsessed with the notion of really dying, the better to experience the Afterlife before being revived--if he can be revived." This illustrates the critical element of faith without which the others are in a way irrelevant and that is resurrection of the dead to face Judgement Day and spend eternity in either Paradise or the Hellfire. If there is no resurrection then science proves completely adequate to live one's life and to reflect reality. If there is a resurrection then religion points to the ultimate reality and science is mererly concerned with measuring "dust blowing in the wind".

 

[Hulk]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

Indeed there are different sources of knowledge. Observation, reason and revelation. To use a short analogy, if there was a giant wall in front of you, you can use your senses and reason to know as much about the wall as you possibly can but only revelation can tell you what is behind the wall.

 

[loveofgod]

Re: Science and Religion are opposites.

"Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime. Give a man a religion and he will starve to death praying for a fish."

I'm not atheist but I do agree with the above statement. There's a difference between religion and God. Loving God isn't the same thing as loving a religion. They are two separate things.

 

[facethetruth]

I have no issue with anyone being atheist but when they arrogantly say such ignorant things then I should say something right? "..

Brother you should have a big problem with them, they are human devils. I debated with hunderds of them and when you stun them they go and repeat the samethings to other believers taking advantage they dont have knowledge.