Are these allegations true? (Genuine question.)

[Dionysus]

But the husband isn't allowed to harm his wife. I think we already clarified it is only meant to be a light hit that doesn't cause harm.

Regardless. It's aggresive physical contact he is allowed, but she is not (according to you, asadxyz stated otherwise). Hence, once sided.

 

[Malaikah]

Well, are you going to go on a rampage now about how God created men physically stronger than women? Seems pretty one sided to me too.

It is also one sided that only the wife is allowed to become pregnant and that the husband is denied this opportunity? :?

oh, and by the way, it is NOT aggressive! That is not allowed.

p.s. Have you read the whole thread?

 

[Dionysus]

so hostile... tisk tisk...

*moves the the big-kid table*

asadxyz, again, thank you for the answer.

 

[Malaikah]

I was not trying to be hostile! You asked us in your introduction thread to give you the benefit of the doubt if we thought you were trying to be offensive, well the least you can do is return the favour.

My point was that you seem to have a problem with men being allowed to hit in certain circumstances but not women. I want to know if you also have a problem with men being denied the right to become pregnant?

 

[Dionysus]

I was not trying to be hostile! You asked us in your introduction thread to give you the benefit of the doubt if we thought you were trying to be offensive, well the least you can do is return the favour.

My point was that you seem to have a problem with men being allowed to hit in certain circumstances but not women. I want to know if you also have a problem with men being denied the right to become pregnant?

Fair enough.

It don't stop some from trying... lol, sorry, had to throw that joke in...

I don't agree with it (as stated above). I'm simply trying to understand why some people do.

 

[جوري]

I believe these questions were answered here before... here is a post by bros. No name.. I don't know why he hasn't been on for a while? so we'll post his post in absentia and give him full credit

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Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"


Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.




Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.



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refrence post and I suggest everyone looks at it since some portions couldn't be cut and pasted...
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/33209-wife-beating-12.html#post711125

 

[جوري]

I was not trying to be hostile! You asked us in your introduction thread to give you the benefit of the doubt if we thought you were trying to be offensive, well the least you can do is return the favour.

My point was that you seem to have a problem with men being allowed to hit in certain circumstances but not women. I want to know if you also have a problem with men being denied the right to become pregnant?

Sister M. Allow me to digress and say.. I love how you brits. add an extra vowel to everything :lol:

 

[Dionysus]

Thank you PurestAmbrosia. That answered a few questions for me.

 

[جوري]

Thank you PurestAmbrosia. That answered a few questions for me.

my pleasure :welcome:

 

[Malaikah]

Sister M. Allow me to digress and say.. I love how you brits. add an extra vowel to everything :lol:

Which word? I'm not british, just bad at spelling. :X

 

[جوري]

Which word? I'm not british, just bad at spelling. :X

not a bad speller at all... it was favor, you wrote with a "u" (favour), as brits do.. I laugh so heartily whenever I pick up the lancet or any British journal.. seems like even the words are dressed up and starchy?..I mean why does everything need an extra vowel?
"foetus" instead of fetus
"oestrogen" instead of estrogen
"colour" instead of color
but I like it so please keep it up it tickles me :-[ :wasalambo

 

[snakelegs]

ancient people (like me) who were taught by even more ancient teachers were taught the british spellings - they used to be used here also.

 

[shible]

Assalamu alaikkum,

Good Q & A with lot of informations

Since i am signing after 3 weeks due to work

 

[glo]

ancient people (like me) who were taught by even more ancient teachers were taught the british spellings - they used to be used here also.

Ha! That proves it:
It is not so much the case that the Brits have added vowels, but the the Americans have dropped them!

That's the one thing that niggles me about the New International Bible version ... the spelling is American. How did that happen??! :mmokay:

It's not 'the Lord's favor' ... it 'the Lord's favour'!!!

Sorry, I'm completely off topic here ... :thankyou:

 

[asadxyz]

First of all I appreciate your effort to bring forward another aspect of the word "Dharaba"(ضرب ).But let me say that no doubt this word has been under discussion extensively.People have tried to attribute its meaning which are much lighter in intensity.But the vital question is whether the Arabic literature allow those meanings or not.
I know you have copied pasted this explananation.But I would like to draw your attention towards the mistakes comitted in the post concerning the word "dharab.
The author says :

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

I agree 100%

The author says:

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Let us see:

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab

Absolutely not correct reference;Raghib has not mentioned (though this expression does exist meaning we will discuss later);Below is the copy paste of Raghib under the heading of "Dharaba".

Mufradaat ul Quran by Raghib Isphahaani
‏*** Browsing in book: ***
كتاب الضاد.

ضرب
-الضرب: إيقاع شيء على شيء، ولتصور اختلاف الضرب خولف بين تفاسيرها، كضرب الشيء باليد، والعصا، والسيف ونحوها، قال: {فاضربوا فوق الأعناق واضربوا منهم كل بنان} <الأنفال/12>، {فضرب الرقاب} <محمد/4>، {فقلنا اضربوه ببعضها} <البقرة/73>، {أن أضرب بعصاك الحجر} <الأعراف/160>، {فراغ عليهم ضربا باليمين} <الصافات/93>، {يضربون وجوههم} <محمد/27>، وضرب الأرض بالمطر، وضرب الدراهم، اعتبارا بضرب المطرقة، وقيل: له: الطبع، اعتبارا بتأثير السمة فيه، وبذلك شبه السجية، وقيل لها: الضريبة والطبيعة. والضرب في الأرض: الذهاب فيها وضربها بالأرجل. قال تعالى: {وإذا ضربتم في الأرض} <النساء/101>، {وقالوا لإخوانهم إذا ضربوا في الأرض} <آل عمران/156>، وقال: {لا يستطيعون ضربا في الأرض} <البقرة/273>، ومنه: {فاضرب لهم طريقا في البحر} <طه/77>، وضرب الفحل الناقة تشبيها بالضرب بالمطرقة، كقولك: طرقها، تشبيها بالطرق بالمطرقة، وضرب الخيمة بضرب أوتادها بالمطرقة، وتشبيها بالخيمة قال: {ضربت عليهم الذلة} <آل عمران/112>، أي: التحفتهم الذلة التحاف الخيمة بمن ضربت عليه، وعلى هذا: {وضربت عليهم المسكنة} <آل عمران/112>، ومنه استعير: {فضربنا على آذانهم في الكهف سنين عددا} <الكهف/11>، وقوله: {فضرب بينهم بسور} <الحديد/13>، وضرب العود، والناي، والبوق يكون بالأنفاس، وضرب اللبن بعضه على بعض بالخلط، وضرب المثل هو من ضرب الدراهم، وهو ذكر شيء أثره يظهر في غيره. قال تعالى: {ضرب الله مثلا} <الزمر/29>، {واضرب لهم مثلا} <الكهف/32>، {ضرب لكم مثلا من أنفسكم} <الروم/28>، {ولقد ضربنا للناس} <الروم/58>، {ولما ضرب ابن مريم مثلا} <الزخرف/57>، {ما ضربوه لك إلا جدلا} <الزخرف/58>، {واضرب لهم مثل الحياة الدنيا} <الكهف/45>، {أفنضرب عنكم الذكر صفحا} <الزخرف/5>.
والمضاربة: ضرب من الشركة. والمضربة: ما أكثر ضربه بالخياطة. والتضريب: التحريض، كأنه حث على الضرب الذي هو بعد في الأرض، والاضطراب: كثرة الذهاب في الجهات من الضرب في الأرض، واستضراب الناقة: استدعاء ضرب الفحل إياها.

Only at the end he has used the derivative of Dharab which is "Istidhraab" without Reference to Lisaan Ul Arab.
No doubt in Arabic,the word " Dharaba "is used for intercourse but ONLY FOR ANIMALS (Stallions /she -camel) Not for human beings.As all the dictionaries of Arabic have mentioned it.

Lisaan ul Arab;‏
وضَرَبَ الفحلُ الناقةَ يضْرِبُها ضِراباً: نكحها.
قال سيبويه: ضَرَبها الفحْلُ ضِراباً كالنكاح. (ج/ص: 1/546)
قال: والقياس ضَرْباً، ولا يقولونه كما لا يقولون: نَكْحاً، وهو القياس.
وناقةٌ ضارِبٌ: ضَرَبها الفحلُ،
Almisbah ul Munir :
وَضَرَبَ الْفَحْلُ النَّاقَةَ ضِرَابًا بِالْكَسْرِ
Taajul Aroos :

ضَرَب الفَحْلُ الناقَةَ يَضْرِبُها ضِرَاباً بالكَسْرِ : نَزَا عَلَيْهَا أَي نَكَح . وأَضْرَبَ فُلاَنٌ ناقَتَه أَي أَنْزَى الفحْلَ عَلَيْهَا
Maqabees ul Lughat :
ومن الباب ضِراب الفَحل النّاقة. ويقال أضْرَبْت النّاقةَ: أنْزَيت عليها الفحل


The same expressions have been mentioned by Muhitul Muhit and Lane's lexicon.Ferozabadi has mentioned all possible meanings of the word Dharba used in Quran but he has not mentioned its use as "Intercourse".

النصوص الواردة في ( بصائر ذوي التمييز / الفيروز أبادي - مصنف ومدقق ) ضمن الموضوع ( الباب
السادس عشر - فى الكلمات المفتتحة بحرف الضاد ) ضمن العنوان ( بصيرة فى ضرب )

ورد الضَّرب فى اللغة والقرآن على وجوه:
الضَّرْب: الخفيف من المطر. والضَّرْب: الصفة والصّنف من الأَشياء. والضَّرْب: الرجل الخفيف اللحم. قال طَرَفة بن العبد.
أَنا الرجل الضَّرْب الذى تعرفوننى خِشاشٌ كرأس الحيَّة المتوقِّدِ
الضَّرْبُ الإِسراع فى السّير: {لاَ يَسْتَطِيعُونَ ضَرْباً فِي ٱلأَرْضِ}، {وَآخَرُونَ يَضْرِبُونَ فِي ٱلأَرْضِ}.
الضَّرْب: الإِلزام: {وَضُرِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلذِّلَّةُ وَٱلْمَسْكَنَةُ} ، أَى أُلزموهما.
الضَّرب بالسّيف وباليد: {فَٱضْرِبُواْ فَوْقَ ٱلأَعْنَاقِ} ، أَى بالسّيف، {وَٱضْرِبُوهُنَّ} ، أَى باليد.
الضرب: الوصف: {ضَرَبَ ٱللَّهُ مَثَلاً} ، أَى وَصَفَ، {نَضْرِبُهَا لِلنَّاسِ} ، أَى نَصِفها.
الضرب: البيان: {وَكُلاًّ ضَرَبْنَا لَهُ ٱلأَمْثَالَ}، {وَضَرَبْنَا لَكُمُ ٱلأَمْثَالَ} أَى بيّنَّا.
ويقال: ضرب على يديه: إِذا أَفسد عليه أَمرًا أَخّذ فيه. وضرب القاضى على يده: حجره. وضرب على المكتوب. وضَرَبَ الجُرْحُ والضِّرْسُ: اشتدّ وجعه. وضرب الشىءَ بالشىء: خلطهُ.
وقوله تعالى: {فَضَرَبْنَا عَلَىٰ آذَانِهِمْ} أَى أَنمناهم، وقيل: منعناهم السّمع؛ لأَنَّ النَّائم إِذا سمع انتبه.
وضرب العِرْقُ ضَرَبانا: نَبَض، ولَحىَ الله زمانًا ضرب ضربانَهُ، حتى سلّط علينا ظَرِبانه.
وضرب خاتَمًا. وضرب اللبِن. وضرب مثلاً.
وأَضْرَبَ فى بيته: إِذا لم يبرح منه، وأَضرب عن الأَمر: عَزَف عنه. والضريبة: الطبيعة.
وضرب الدّهرُ بينهم: فرّق.وضربته العقرب: لدغته. وضَرَبَ مناقب جَمّة واضطربها: حازم. وهم ضُرَباء أَى قرناءُ. وأَضرب البردُ النباتَ: أَفسده. ورأَيت ضَرْب نساء، أَىْ نساء. قال الراعى:
وضَرْبُ نساءٍ لو رآهنَّ راهبُ له ظُلّة فى قُلّة ظلّ رانِيا
وضرب الزمان: مَضَى. وقال ذو الرمة:
فإِن تضرب الأَيّام يا مىّ بيننا فلا ناشِرٌ سِرًا ولا متغيّر
وضَرَبَ الدّراهم اعتبارًا بضربه بالمِطرقة. وضرب الخَيْمَة لضرب أَوتادها بالمطرقة. وضَرْب العُود والناى والبُوق يكون بالأَنفاس.
والمضاربة: ضرب من الشركة. والمضرَّبة: ما أَكثر بالخياطة ضَرْبه.
والتضريب: التحريض والإِغراءُ، كأَنَّه حَثٌّ على الضرب.
والضَّرَبُ محركة: العسل.
Source : http://altafsir.com/MiscellaneousBooks.asp
I being non Arabic might have comitted some mistake.If anyone of You finds it please do correct me.It will be welcomed whole heartedly .Because the purpose is not to debate but to reach exact meanings of the Aya.

 

[جوري]

hmmmmmmmmmn.. well I do speak Arabic.. I am not sure what to tell you?.. it is best to ask ahel il3ilm, the sheikh above is (bros. estes' reply to someones query)-- to be honest with you I wouldn't want to pass my own judgement on what I think it means.. perhaps we can ask another scholar from this board? maybe bros. Ansar?

 

[Basirah]

Dear IbnAbdulHakim, you wrote this:

You see this was actually during a war in which the jews betrayed the muslims, so naturally the general of the muslim army feared for the muslims being slaughtered and thus called for the traitors to be executed.

I then wrote:

Can you explain to me how the treaty was signed? Please check out Abi Dawud. Thanks in advance.

It would be great if you could answer this, or point me towards where you did answer it. Remember, I would like your own words please.