Are we going about it the right way?

[anonymous]

Female 31, never married. Concerned Guardians / mahrams present trying their best to safeguard. Family values: religious / traditional. She has one brother separated, father passed away 20 plus years ago, she has two sisters, married. All within same ethnicity.

Situation : prospective groom, 33.
3 brothers 2 sisters, 5 in total
Mother passed away 21 years ago
Father widowed then remarried English revert,
Elder sister has children, divorced
Elder brother married too, diff ethnicity
Prospective groom
Younger brother separated, 2 kids
Younger sister married and expecting.

Grooms history has been traced through social media posts, picture of him in night club, posts advocating the use of cannabis, use of vulgar language. Abandoned by father at young age, school drop out madrasa drop out, music was his get away growing up.

Now self employed, has his own clinic, holds 3 degrees and also works in healthcare. No permenant place of stay, stays at sisters house, brothers house, and shared accommodation. First appearances looks rehabilitated, behaviour too on first impression. Not much contact with siblings or step siblings.

Question for the sisters.

Your mahrams have raised concerns over so many red flags... At the beginning they say no, groom is persistent, wont take no for an answer, Continues to pursue....

Would you marry him?

 

[anonymous]

Well question for the brothers too.... If it was your sister / daughter.... What would you do....

Are people losing the plot in regards to this craving to get married that they now think persistance is the only weapon against families who reject and dissaprove...

The concept of 'moving on' is lost on some people....

 

['Abdullah]

Too many red flags, I would definitely say NO without a second thought.

 

[anonymous]

Despite red flags, despite misguided sisters and brothers, should they still marry if merely only two conditions are met according to Mufti Menk…?

https://youtu.be/jFExHN1t0-M

 

[anonymous]

https://youtu.be/jFExHN1t0-M

 

[Islami.Mu'mina]

I dont judge by family member history all though I will take it into account. I do understand that some people can be very different from their family whether it be that this family is extremely pious or deviant.

But those posts with the cannibis, night clubs, music, etc. is what would make me say no. Even if his social media changed. I'd have to ask this man about what these posts are and why they are still up. If they are still public, it is clear that he is flaunting his past sins and hasn't repented to Allah.

If this man went through a genuine change, not just bc he became educated and wealthy, then maybe. I'd be able to tell though. Many people who give up major sins and make a 180 turn become very different to the point where you can tell.

To sum it up, Id say no because of all the clear signs.

Are you supposed to be the groom who is pursuing this girl?

 

[anonymous]

I dont judge by family member history all though I will take it into account. I do understand that some people can be very different from their family whether it be that this family is extremely pious or deviant.

But those posts with the cannibis, night clubs, music, etc. is what would make me say no. Even if his social media changed. I'd have to ask this man about what these posts are and why they are still up. If they are still public, it is clear that he is flaunting his past sins and hasn't repented to Allah.

If this man went through a genuine change, not just bc he became educated and wealthy, then maybe. I'd be able to tell though. Many people who give up major sins and make a 180 turn become very different to the point where you can tell.

To sum it up, Id say no because of all the clear signs.

Are you supposed to be the groom who is pursuing this girl?

Thank you for your response, no i am the sisters mahram, her uncle (her mums brother).

her mother who is my sister although of the same generation is somewhat older than me by 15 years, her approach to marriage is (is he muslim, is he working?), she feels under pressure because her daughter is well over the age (clock is ticking too) and my sister wants to fulfill a compulsory duty of getting her daughter married fast! maybe the simple way may have been the criteria back then but it cant be the criteria right now, surely.... too much deception going around...

"get married quick"
"clock is ticking"
"you're getting old"
etc

are probably the most common phrases heard by single people and single people should not just act upon these kind of pressures alone to get married, because then it would be like getting married 'for the sake of marriage', or 'for the sake of being somones husband/wife", it has a likelihood of becoming meaningless afterwards... people need to be educated on marriage... anyway thats my view

may Allah instill patience in everyone...

 

[MazharShafiq]

Too many red flags, I would definitely say NO without a second thought.

I think it is better for everyone.

 

[anonymous]

my niece still wants to marry this guy,

we got an imam in
we all ascertained that my niece is in contact with the groom for the past 2 years, as the groom has approached the family 5 or six times in the past two years. imam asked niece what she thought of that, niece remained despondent, normally women would find that creepy, men hounding that many times...

the imam repeatedly asked the niece about contact, my niece kept on denying it.

imam knows of the groom and confirmed groom is from broken family, had a tough childhood, has been involved in messaging other girls before (imam backed it up saying people are messaging all over the place, you cant stop it), imam refrained from putting him in bad light too much,...

imam asked her, why do you want to get married to this guy, niece replied, there wont be too much responsibility like living with in laws etc.... imam quoted hadith that that shouldnt be the reason, there are blessings in looking after elderly etc,
but is that a good enough reason to marry a guy, cos he aint got parents . family? my niece is letting me down big time!

guy doesnt even have a permanent place of residence.

i am losing it to be honest, here we got a guy, pictures of him in a night club, social media posts promoting drugs, broken flamily, we dismissed him two years ago, yet here he remains like a permenant blood sucking tick!

i feel my niece is letting the family down big time.. how do you get through to someone blinded by love yet in denial whenever anyone asks?

my sister just wants her daughter to be happy, at whatever cost!

how does one deal with this?

imam said, no one can stop it, its an affair of love, get them to meet, the guy wont give up.

 

[Islami.Mu'mina]

niece replied, there wont be too much responsibility like living with in laws etc...

Thats a bad reason. There are plenty of other better men who dont want their future wife to live with their in laws or take much responsibility. Regardless of that, its marriage. Shes going to eventually have a lot of responsibilities to be handling. I'd assume her real reason is just because she feels like shes in love with him or he might be charming.

as the groom has approached the family 5 or six times in the past two years

Why is he so desperate for your niece? Have they been talking often? Is it for her looks? Just hope that he's someone who can handle commitment

In the end, you should probably listen to the imam i guess. I dont think there is much you can do.

 

[anonymous]

Thats a bad reason. There are plenty of other better men who dont want their future wife to live with their in laws or take much responsibility. Regardless of that, its marriage. Shes going to eventually have a lot of responsibilities to be handling. I'd assume her real reason is just because she feels like shes in love with him or he might be charming.


Why is he so desperate for your niece? Have they been talking often? Is it for her looks? Just hope that he's someone who can handle commitment

In the end, you should probably listen to the imam i guess. I dont think there is much you can do.

well my niece is pretty maashallah, one of those ones cared for, looked after not neglected majorly, that has refrained from socialising physically with the wrong crowds from an early age after leaving rebel school mates and brought up in a traditional loving caring secure god fearing family environment.... up until she got her smart phone, i guess it went pear shaped after that. this isolation from the real world made her naive, weak and vulnerable and easy prey to .... well you know the rest...

well one has to assume given the facts that they have been messaging for at least 18 months..... i still trust she has not committed any physical sins... because I want to....

 

[Islami.Mu'mina]

well my niece is pretty maashallah, one of those ones cared for, looked after not neglected majorly, that has refrained from socialising physically with the wrong crowds from an early age after leaving rebel school mates and brought up in a traditional loving caring secure god fearing family environment.... up until she got her smart phone, i guess it went pear shaped after that. this isolation from the real world made her naive, weak and vulnerable and easy prey to .... well you know the rest...

well one has to assume given the facts that they have been messaging for at least 18 months..... i still trust she has not committed any physical sins... because I want to....

Oh wow theyve been talking for so long it has gotten too far in. May Allah grant you all ease. I have no further advice I can give you at this point

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Female 31, never married. Concerned Guardians / mahrams present trying their best to safeguard. Family values: religious / traditional. She has one brother separated, father passed away 20 plus years ago, she has two sisters, married. All within same ethnicity.

Situation : prospective groom, 33.
3 brothers 2 sisters, 5 in total
Mother passed away 21 years ago
Father widowed then remarried English revert,
Elder sister has children, divorced
Elder brother married too, diff ethnicity
Prospective groom
Younger brother separated, 2 kids
Younger sister married and expecting.

Grooms history has been traced through social media posts, picture of him in night club, posts advocating the use of cannabis, use of vulgar language. Abandoned by father at young age, school drop out madrasa drop out, music was his get away growing up.

Now self employed, has his own clinic, holds 3 degrees and also works in healthcare. No permenant place of stay, stays at sisters house, brothers house, and shared accommodation. First appearances looks rehabilitated, behaviour too on first impression. Not much contact with siblings or step siblings.

Question for the sisters.

Your mahrams have raised concerns over so many red flags... At the beginning they say no, groom is persistent, wont take no for an answer, Continues to pursue....

Would you marry him?

You've answered your own question. Does he really sound like a good, righteous man who comes from a good family and fears Allah? Does he sound like a committed person who will look after his spouse and children and raise them to become worshippers of Allah?

What if you marry him and he starts being equally as persistent regarding things your niece is not very comfortable with? What if he persists in encouraging haram for his family? He goes clubbing and smokes weed, right?

 

[anonymous]

You've answered your own question. Does he really sound like a good, righteous man who comes from a good family and fears Allah? Does he sound like a committed person who will look after his spouse and children and raise them to become worshippers of Allah?

What if you marry him and he starts being equally as persistent regarding things your niece is not very comfortable with? What if he persists in encouraging haram for his family? He goes clubbing and smokes weed, right?

theres no guarantees is there?
the feedback from the community is that he has changed, charity work, involved with a particular masjid, ive asked another imam in the community who has worked with him on charity events, in confidence shared his social media posts and told him about grooms past, mother committing suicide etc, drugs an clubbing, vulgar language, imam was a bit surprised but did say if he was considering this guy for his daughter or sister that the imam would consider him ('all bias aside').

my worry is what if he flees from his children as his father did after the mom left this world?
people are saying that he doesnt do weed or clubbing anymore, and telling me to ask him about it, which i already did... he denied it despite me capturing the social media posts as proof for my family, basically lied to my face, my family backed him up saying how is someone supposed to admit to something like that?

i have a bad feeling about this....

i love my niece very much, here even the basic checks and all red flags have been ignored, failed to make my family decline a proposal.... if something goes wrong.... i will blame all decision makers including the niece for ignoring me and for marrying for the sake of marrying and unjust reasons such as 'she's old', 'she needs kids'

i hope thats not the ultimate reason for marriage for years to come, there will be so many children in the future growing up from broken single parent families, so many more that it may become the norm.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

my worry is what if he flees from his children as his father did after the mom left this world?
people are saying that he doesnt do weed or clubbing anymore, and telling me to ask him about it, which i already did... he denied it despite me capturing the social media posts as proof for my family, basically lied to my face, my family backed him up saying how is someone supposed to admit to something like that?

i have a bad feeling about this...

You've answered your question once again.

Relationships are based on trust. You're clearly full of doubt and have several concerns about this person. Why go ahead with it when you're so uncomfortable? It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Islami.Mu'mina]

You've answered your question once again.

Relationships are based on trust. You're clearly full of doubt and have several concerns about this person. Why go ahead with it when you're so uncomfortable? It's better to be safe than sorry.

If you read the previous points, he is having a lot of problems as the niece and the groom keep persisting. The imam even told them to let them get married at this point

 

['Abd-al Latif]

If you read the previous points, he is having a lot of problems as the niece and the groom keep persisting. The imam even told them to let them get married at this point

I seemed to have misunderstood the brother.

Is the father of the woman alive?

 

[Islami.Mu'mina]

I seemed to have misunderstood the brother.

Is the father of the woman alive?

I haven't heard anything about her father but the groom keeps persisting for two years and his niece keeps on contacting him. They contacted the imam and he even said to just let them get married at this point because there is nothing that can be done since they wont stop

 

[anonymous]

I seemed to have misunderstood the brother.

Is the father of the woman alive?

no, father of the bride passed away over 20 years ago. bride has one brother in and out of the scene, dont think he's mind is set on the whole thing either either...