"Are you nuts?" a woman converts to Islam

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Encolpius, what's better - One Supreme and Perfect God or lots of different gods, who have no power to harm or benefit? Just ponder over that. :)

Four minutes. That must be a record for me telling people what Paganism entails grosso modo and people jumping on me to try and convert.

To my mind neither of them are better. Whether you ascribe a propitious and positive happening in your life to one omnipotent supreme being working in ways the human mind cannot possibly comprehend to stack things in your favour or to one of a pantheon of deities and his/her/its vagaries, it's all one in the end.

However, since you broached the question, I'll ask you why you believe that one single supreme God is better.
 
Four minutes. That must be a record for me telling people what Paganism entails grosso modo and people jumping on me to try and convert.

To my mind neither of them are better. Whether you ascribe a propitious and positive happening in your life to one omnipotent supreme being working in ways the human mind cannot possibly comprehend to stack things in your favour or to one of a pantheon of deities and his/her/its vagaries, it's all one in the end.

However, since you broached the question, I'll ask you why you believe that one single supreme God is better.


Because the One who created us is Perfect without any flaws. Whereas the others are themselves created and can't answer your prayers whether you wanted them to or not. [i.e. stone idols etc.] They can neither harm you nor benefit you. They are simply a creation of humans, and God is not created - rather He is the Creator and Originator of all things.


However, if we were to say that there is more than One God in the heavens, then one may have a different opinion with another - they both may disagree on a certain concept, and this may cause chaos in the universe; each wanting to have power over his own dominion. This would lead to the universe being destroyed, and one would end up losing. Now if he was to lose, then that wouldn't be God since he has a weakness. And something which is weak cannot be God, since God is way above what they associate with Him, and He only does what befits His Majesty.
 
Four minutes. That must be a record for me telling people what Paganism entails grosso modo and people jumping on me to try and convert.

To my mind neither of them are better. Whether you ascribe a propitious and positive happening in your life to one omnipotent supreme being working in ways the human mind cannot possibly comprehend to stack things in your favour or to one of a pantheon of deities and his/her/its vagaries, it's all one in the end.

However, since you broached the question, I'll ask you why you believe that one single supreme God is better.

Do you know of Socretes conversation with a polythiest? We believe in the light, and we believe in virtue, for the light and virtue to have real existance, there must be absolute origin for what see as the beautiful qualities. Othewise, there is no good, no evil, just feeling, no right, no wrong, and no one worthy to be worshiped, and no perfection, no ancesion. The world would be chaotic no order, which of the Gods can claim to be the perfect, to the absolute right, the absolute wise or powerful, the one to be obeyed, why there be a difference in essence or will if any of them were perfect, or truly wise and infintely knowledgable and infintely powerful and are absolutely good in their essence. We know whatever always existed is indeed infinite in essence and knowedge and power and perfection and infinite in the virtuous attributes, and that all the virtous attributes are infact one.

Jinn or aliens who have sort of amazing power in some people eyes are not Gods, nor they have authority over us, nor should we seek them for enlightenment nor should anyone mix experience with them with that of faith in the divine, be the experience with them telepathatic or not.
 
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btw people study socretes, he basically showed it's imposibble to believe in virtue and multiple dieties at the same time and it was logically sound argument all philisophers will testify to that.
 
O and getting some things you want done through worship of jinn is not proof of jinn being Gods.

Travel left or right, go where you want, there is only one perfection and only one path of perfection, which is returning to God, in God, by God. That is to the light, in the light, by the light.

Everything else is a fancy, deviation, unbefitting of us as we have been originated on the perfect essence and everyting else other then passing away into the majestic, humans will never find tranquility in.

Take care.
 
But, Fi/Umniyah/Link, that still requires faith. For instance, suppose you're drowning after the boat you were on sunk and there were no other survivors, yet a helicopter came into view just before you were about to definitively go under. You might believe that a single God has saved you for whatever reason, but that still requires faith. Similarly, a polytheist could ascribe this to one of a pantheon of deities with varying dominions with the same faith.

This is why I said that it's all one to me, since believing in one God or many requires just as much faith.

The argument of universal moral standards, yes, could be seen as evidence for a single God... but in polytheistic beliefs there's generally one single deity that created Man and the others represent different facets of the Divine in general which inspired this creation to some part or another. Furthermore, from an evolutionary perspective, it implies that humans originated from a single common societal ancestor which had those standards.

I ought actually to generate a thread on this sort of thing so we can keep questions of that nature in there, but it's late and I've stuff to do...
 
But, Fi/Umniyah/Link, that still requires faith. For instance, suppose you're drowning after the boat you were on sunk and there were no other survivors, yet a helicopter came into view just before you were about to definitively go under. You might believe that a single God has saved you for whatever reason, but that still requires faith. Similarly, a polytheist could ascribe this to one of a pantheon of deities with varying dominions with the same faith.

This is why I said that it's all one to me, since believing in one God or many requires just as much faith.

The argument of universal moral standards, yes, could be seen as evidence for a single God... but in polytheistic beliefs there's generally one single deity that created Man and the others represent different facets of the Divine in general which inspired this creation to some part or another. Furthermore, from an evolutionary perspective, it implies that humans originated from a single common societal ancestor which had those standards.

I ought actually to generate a thread on this sort of thing so we can keep questions of that nature in there, but it's late and I've stuff to do...



Thanks for your response :) If you believe there is only One deity who created you and sustains you, and gives you all you have - then why are you dependant upon other deities which people create through their own hands? When you are in severe need of help, do you truelly turn to these stone idols etc? Or do you turn to the One who truelly gives you life and is aware of all that you and us all do?

If you turn to the One who gives you life and all you have - then why not worship Him Alone? He is not in need of intermediaries, rather He is the All-Hearing, All Seeing.


What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?

Say: "To Allah belongs exclusively (the right to grant) intercession: to Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: In the End, it is to Him that ye shall be brought back."

When Allah, the One and Only, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust and horror; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy!

Say: "O Allah! Creator of the heavens and the earth! Knower of all that is hidden and open! it is Thou that wilt judge between Thy Servants in those matters about which they have differed."

[Qur'an 39: 43-46]


Think about it, the only reason why you do this is because you see this from culture. You know that your God is One, so why not worship Him Alone?

Say: "I have been forbidden to invoke those whom ye invoke besides Allah,- seeing that the Clear Signs have come to me from my Lord; and I have been commanded to bow (in Islam) to the Lord of the Worlds."

It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.

It is He Who gives Life and Death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, "Be", and it is.

Seest thou not those that dispute concerning the Signs of Allah? How are they turned away (from Reality)?-


[Qur'an [Al-Ghafir/The Forgiving] 40: 66-9]



I really hope you ponder over this. :) Because your God is One God, and there is none worthy of worship except Him Alone. The One who created you, the One who sustains you, the One who will cause you to die, and it is Him who will ressurect us all to judge us all.


By the way, take care of yourself insha Allaah [God willing.]



Peace.
 
Good news in the first post.

Yes, well, you'll have no problem with me in that regard. Both I and my lady friend dress from head to toe in black every day.

Make of that what you will.
You're Goths?
 
Enchanting story...as it says in the Quran..more and more people will follow God's religion and will join Islam.....but it is good to do that now coz once the gates have close...no more time will be given for sinners to repent and for those who want to convert to do so.....
jazakallah
 
We seek the grandname that has all the beautiful names united.

Since Adam (as) knew all the names, and as hadiths say was created in God's image, he was a proof against Angels (as).

God is infact not multiple, for all the beautiful attributes unite, and all become lost in the grandname, and the grandname is only seen through faith.

This is the meaning of suratal ikhlass, Allah (swt) is the outer, all the beaufitul names represent him, but since the inward of the beautiful names is that he is single, and so this mean beautiful attributes unite and are infact single. He is single not multiple. He is outward in his inwardness and inward in his outwardness, outer leads up to inward, and inwards descends down to outward.

Mohammad (pbuh) was designated to make known God's singleness and sheer essence and that all beautiful outward beauftil attributes infact all refer to the single pure attribute of Allah (swt).

Also, by what you said, they would all be signs of God, not gods themselves, in other words, why make the creation of God equal to him?

All creation is infact sign of God, but Adam (as), Isa (as), Mohammad (pbuh), etc, are infact proofs of the fact all attributes are one attribute, so they are the "biggest sign" or the signs of God by which he is truly known.

And ofcourse God alone is infinite and is above all creation, forever will be, hence we will not call them re-incarnations of God despite them although being finite, are the light of God.

Infact, the polythiest knew these concepts, hence why Mohamamd (pbuh) was able to bring them to realize there is no point of equating creation with God but rather just realize all praise and beautiful names infact belong to God so worship God and adore God.

The true religion requires logic not go to extreme (equating creation with God) and faith so not to be falling short (disbelieving the light of God in his creation and thus having no connection to his essence).

Why don't you seek unity? why seek incomplete diversities? Infact, the way to know God is seeking unity, not diversity. The more you seek diversity, the further you will be from the blessed tree of unity, where all beaufitul names are but one.

Aside from this tawheed, their was the practical tawheed, which says to reject obedience to all others but God. Reject guidance all except from God. Hence we seek social, political, and spiritual guidance from revelation of God, and submit to no other then God.

peace
 
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Fi_Sabilillah said:
Thanks for your response If you believe there is only One deity who created you and sustains you, and gives you all you have - then why are you dependant upon other deities which people create through their own hands? When you are in severe need of help, do you truelly turn to these stone idols etc? Or do you turn to the One who truelly gives you life and is aware of all that you and us all do?

I think you misunderstood when I said "it's all one to me." I meant "it's all the same."

The thing is, the different gods in such a belief reflect not only aspects of the natural world but also different facets of one personality and as such they're neither "good" nor "evil" since those bits that, if you like, they "put into" humans can be used for both good and evil. It would be interesting to get an adherent of a Dharmic religion on here actually because I'm of the impression that there's similar things in Hinduism and Sikhism but I don't know enough about those to properly comment.

Muezzin said:
You're Goths?

Not quite; she is, but I prefer extreme metal... again, make of that what you will.
 

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