Articles on Islamic Finance

  • Thread starter Thread starter Uthman
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 87
  • Views Views 17K
Re: Islamic banks 'better in crisis'

France seeks to woo Islamic finance

PARIS — As France debates whether to ban the burqa, the government is leading a drive to attract billions in investment from Muslim countries by turning Paris into the European capital of Islamic finance.

The French parliament this month has approved changes to legislation to allow Islamic "sukuk" bonds to be issued and the Qatar Islamic Bank has applied to be the first such bank to open in France.

Home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority, France is hoping to unseat London as the European hub for Islamic banking, offering products that comply with Sharia law and meet the needs of big investors mostly from Gulf countries.

But the drive is raising hackles, with some opposition politicians accusing the government of undermining France's much prized secularism to accommodate wealthy interests.

"When rich Muslims are concerned, we welcome them. But when they are poor, we put them on planes and deport them. This is all very upsetting," said Socialist deputy Henri Emmanuelli.

After failing to garner enough votes to derail the bill, the Socialist opposition is challenging the legality of the new legislation on Islamic finance before the Constitutional Council.

"We must not allow principles of Sharia law, or the ethics of the Koran to be introduced into French law," said Emmanuelli.

Under Sharia law, making money from money such as charging interest is not permitted and investment in companies involved in alcohol, gambling and tobacco is strictly off limits.

Much of the debate has focussed on opening up the French market to "sukuk" bonds, which are asset-based and do not pay interest. Investors receive coupons corresponding to part of the profits earned by the asset underpinning the bond.

Economists argue that money raised through Islamic finance could help spur France's nascent recovery with tools that are seen as financially sounder than the high-risk derivatives that led to the 2008 global meltdown.

Elyes Jouini, an author of a report presented to the government last year, estimates that France could tap into 120 billion euros in capital from Islamic finance by making adjustments to its tax and banking laws.

Only seven billion euros of those would be raised domestically among France's five million Muslims.

"There are extremely important financial reserves in Gulf countries and southeast Asia and these countries are ready to invest anywhere but they have specific rules in terms of ethics and in terms of the choice of investment," said Jouini.

"If France wants to attract this capital to its economy, it must offer the possibility for these investors to do so according to the rules of Islamic finance," he said.

Finance Minister Christine Lagarde and Central Bank governor Christian Noyer are to address a major conference in Paris this week that could yield some announcements on promoting Islamic finance in the French economy.

France's far-right National Front has denounced Islamic finance as a "community-based peril" resulting from immigration.

Jouini said opposition to the changes stems from "fear of the unknown."

"The term Islamic is confused with Islamist, the term Sharia raises fears because some think of women forced to cover themselves, the word fatwa raises fears because some think of Salman Rushdie, but a fatwa is nothing more than a decree," said Jouini.

"Islamic finance draws from the ethical principles of Muslim law but it obviously obeys Republican laws. It is not outside the boundaries of legality or civil society," he said.

The drive to open up to Islamic finance came as a parliament task force was looking at measures to ban the wearing of the full Islamic veil in France, reviving controversy over Islam's place there.

Source

 
Re: Islamic Finance News

Islamic finance could help student debt

Drawing on Sharia Law principles, a new business project could offer students attractive loans according to experts.

Islamic banking could help reduce student debt drastically according to Liaquat Ali, founder an organisation aiming to reduce consumer debt.

Mr Ali, who heads the of Truly Interest Free project, will be speaking on the opportunities and benefits of interest free student loans at the UK's first Islamic Finance Conference later this month.

According to Mr Ali “it is simply a matter of rearranging how money flows through our lives”.

Using Islamic banking rules Mr Ali hopes to help point students in the direction of interest free loans, as banks are not allowed to charge interest under Shariah Law.

His organisation, Truly Interest Free, specifically aims to reduce consumer debt for families faced with charges related to college education.

Despite the Islamic finance has seen unprecedented growth over the past three decades, Dr. Mehmet Asutay, lecturer in political economy at Durham University believes that appealing to a non-Muslim market will be difficult.

He said: “Misconceptions about Islam in general prevent Islamic finance penetrating into larger non-Muslim communities. Therefore, a real effort has to be made by the Islamic finance industry to demonstrate that this is nothing more than ethical finance, as the ethical finance industry in the UK is growing.”

Dr. Asutay also stressed that inaccurate pre-assumptions about Shariah law need to be addressed in order for Islamic finance to appeal to a wider audience.

“A number of newspaper attempt to link Islamic finance with fundamentalism or radicalism and such attitudes do not help...linking Shariah law only to brutal criminal codes is a huge mistake.

“Despite such negativities, at least in the wholesale and fund management areas, British institutions including leading law companies are moving into Islamic finance. Thus, there is a huge potential for Islamic finance to develop in Britain and beyond.”

Earlier this year Lloyds TSB announced they would be offering suitable banking alternatives compliant with Islamic faith:

“Lloyds TSB offers an Islamic student account which is designed to meet the requirements of Islamic law. The account neither charges nor receives interest. The Islamic Student account has the approval of the Board of Islamic Scholars to ensure that it is Shariah compliant.”

Earlier this summer the National Union of Students compiled a report which showed over half of Scotland's students were taking on costly commercial debt in addition to student loans and bursaries.

Source

 
Re: Islamic Finance News

Uthmān;1231912 said:
“Lloyds TSB offers an Islamic student account which is designed to meet the requirements of Islamic law. The account neither charges nor receives interest. The Islamic Student account has the approval of the Board of Islamic Scholars to ensure that it is Shariah compliant.”
I've got one of these. :D
 
Re: Islamic Finance News

:sl:
This thread is actually going to very interesting for me, since I'm at present taking a Masters in Islamic finance and banking.

Keep this thread alive, Uthman. My life is depending on it! :p
 
Re: Islamic banks 'better in crisis'

I was provided with an example of how Islamic finance works: A person wants to borrow to buy a $20,000.00 car

The Muslim bank, buys the car for $20,000.00 and then sells the car to the customer for (say) $24,000.00

It is then agreed that the customer makes pays the bank (for example) $500 per month for 48 months.

Where does the Islamic bank get the $20,000 from ? Western banks know from experience they will do (say) 1,000 car loans per year and from the money market borrow 1,000 x $20,000 = $20,000,000.00.

There is a hidden cost. Legally, the bank buys the car, pays the taxes, registration and so on and then sells the car and the buyer then pays the taxes registration and so on. That is double the paperwork. That cost is borne either by the customer or the bank – and most likely by the customer. This makes a car loan from an Islamic bank more expensive than from a Western bank.

What if the customer loses their job and stops paying? The Western bank charges interest on interest till the loan is repaid and the Islamic Bank does not. The Islamic bank makes higher losses. The danger is that the shareholders / depositors desert the bank and the bank goes out of business.

-

There are a couple of ways of financing this in Islamic banks:
1) Murabaha (selling at cost plus): I deposit say 20 K into the bank. The bank can (and does) use this money to buy the car for 20 K and sell at 25k (5k mark up)

2) 2 tier Mudarabah (a form of partnership; one party invests money, the other invests know-how): I depost money into the bank. The bank can loan this money to another person to buy the car (who will then repay the bank in installments or w/e). In this case, the bank has acted both as a lender and a borrower.

3) A lot of the Islamic banks charge high prices for their financial products (in some cases, MORE than conventional making the ruling about no interest seemingly pointless - this is sometimes refered to as back-door interest) so this money can be/is used to finance most of their transactions.

4) There's also capital invested by shareholders; which works the same as in conventional banks.


If the customer is unable to pay, and collateral has been agreed in the legally binding contract, then the bank takes the collateral. If there is no collateral, the bank will thus bare the loss - but that risk is factored into the deal in the first place; the bank knows that going into the agreement, the customer might not be able to pay (hence they are allowed to take collateral!) and hence they are allowed to make a profit on the sale of commodity (this is called iwad - justification of profit on commodity, because you have put in all the effort/risk)

Islamic banking is still in its infancy, and as such it doesn't have all the makings of the conventional system. For example: there is no bank of england equivalent yet (this is incredibly vital in terms of financial institutions). It's very difficult to get liqudity because not all of the neccessary systems are in place - we don't have a lender of last resort or discount houses to finance short term liquidity, which a BoE equivalent would be able to give. That's one of the reasons why you see some Islamic banks charge high prices (or backdoor interest) for their products.

The good news is there is so much room for growth and Islamic banking does seem to be taking off.
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

OK, let's take that car loan example.

So the bank buys the car from the dealership for $20K. They then turn around and sell it for $25K, but they split that payment over, let's say 5 years. So now the customer is able to pay in installments and "in theory" avoid interest.

However, where did that $5K markup come from? That premium in the price is simply for the allowance to pay over time. This is because the customer can go get the car straight from the dealer and pay $20K in cash. But instead they pay an extra $5K to the bank so that they can pay over time.

Isn't this just interest in disguise?

In theory it could work if the bank buys directly from the manufacturer and becomes a dealer in and of themselves, therefore they could buy it at $17K for instance and still sell at $20K while still being able to offer the option of paying over time. However, this is highly unlikely given the fact that banks are not in the car business and it probably wouldn't prudent for them to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for the current models of Islamic finance to work, but I just can't see how they are justified as truly being interest-free. Being a finance guy myself, I thought about going into the Islamic side of things, but I just can't seem to figure out how a lot of it is justified.
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

OK, let's take that car loan example.

So the bank buys the car from the dealership for $20K. They then turn around and sell it for $25K, but they split that payment over, let's say 5 years. So now the customer is able to pay in installments and "in theory" avoid interest.

However, where did that $5K markup come from? That premium in the price is simply for the allowance to pay over time. This is because the customer can go get the car straight from the dealer and pay $20K in cash. But instead they pay an extra $5K to the bank so that they can pay over time.

Isn't this just interest in disguise?
There's a difference between profit and interest. The main difference is ''profit'' made on a loan is classified as interest. However, a mark up or selling a comodity at cost-plus is regarded as profit. I can't charge you extra for money, but if I sell you an actual comodity or product (i.e a car), I'm well within my islamic right to charge you more than what I bought it for.

...
Don't get me wrong, I would love for the current models of Islamic finance to work, but I just can't see how they are justified as truly being interest-free. Being a finance guy myself, I thought about going into the Islamic side of things, but I just can't seem to figure out how a lot of it is justified.
The inherint problem islamic banks face is that the world economy is built around interest. So even if they don't charge their customers it, they still will hit that wall of interest somewhere down the line.

That's what rubs me the wrong way with all of these so-called "Islamic Mortgages". First of all, they're just riba in disguise, and second of all, is taking out a $400,000 loan which will take you 30 years to repay something that is considered commendable in Islam?

/rant
Lol, that's a very good point indeed. It might not be considered commendable, but the option is available for those who wish to take it, at least in terms of Islamic finance.
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

There's a difference between profit and interest. The main difference is ''profit'' made on a loan is classified as interest. However, a mark up or selling a comodity at cost-plus is regarded as profit. I can't charge you extra for money, but if I sell you an actual comodity or product (i.e a car), I'm well within my islamic right to charge you more than what I bought it for.

:sl:,

I do understand the different between profit and interest. Profit is good and halal, but unfortunately Islamic finance makes this line very blurry. You are essentially introducing a second middleman (the first being the dealer) when you buy a car from an Islamic bank, thereby driving up the price above and beyond what the market is asking for the product.

Let's say you have two people each selling 10 pound bags of rice that are identical in every way. Person A is selling his bag for $10, but person B is selling his for $12. Now with Person A's bag you have to pay cash all at once, but if you buy from Person B you can pay over a period of 2 weeks.

What do you think is the difference between these two bags of rice? Clearly the premium person B is charging is to account for the delay in payment, and that delay is added "value". That's exactly what interest is: a compensation for money lost now, to be repaid later, plus an added premium for risk. Essentially the value of the money in 2 weeks plus the risk premium (i + r).

Let's extrapolate this to the car example. Unless the Islamic bank is getting some kind of discount, they are always going to be selling their product for more right out of the gate than the dealership. Now the difference is that with the Islamic bank you see the full price up front and the price is fixed, meaning a delay in payment beyond the specified contract will not charge you more interest. However, in the reversal, paying the car off faster will not save you any money either.

The premium the dealership charges is basically to account for the delay in payment and for the service of "loaning" money (in Islam a loan is supposed to be charity; you're not supposed to make money off of it, so hence the bank probably wouldn't call it a loan). One could see this premium as just profit, but the thing is that the person is coming to the bank specifically because he wants to pay over time, and that is exactly the service the bank offers. He doesn't come to the bank because that's the best place to buy a car. On the contrary, if you were paying cash upfront, you would never choose the bank over the dealership, because the dealership would be cheaper.

So taking all this into consideration, is there really proof that this type of transaction is allowed in the shari'ah? I'm not a scholar, but a lot of scholars seem to think so. There are some detractors, but for the most part, this is allowed in Islamic finance. I am not going to say it's haraam, because that isn't my job; only Allah can decide that. However, it seems to be one of those issues where your conscience factors greatly into the decision. If you're like me, and honestly believe this to be interest in a hidden form, then it is probably best to stay away from it. However, other people may not see it that way, so for them it might be OK.

And Allah knows best.
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

....

The premium the dealership charges is basically to account for the delay in payment and for the service of "loaning" money (in Islam a loan is supposed to be charity; you're not supposed to make money off of it, so hence the bank probably wouldn't call it a loan). One could see this premium as just profit, but the thing is that the person is coming to the bank specifically because he wants to pay over time, and that is exactly the service the bank offers. He doesn't come to the bank because that's the best place to buy a car. On the contrary, if you were paying cash upfront, you would never choose the bank over the dealership, because the dealership would be cheaper.
Another good point. But, people do use banks instead of dealership because they allow for deferred/installment style payments, whereas not all dealerships would (the latter may indeed by cheaper upfront, but you might not have that money at the time; as such we have this system in Islamic finance to pay for that commodity).

So taking all this into consideration, is there really proof that this type of transaction is allowed in the shari'ah? I'm not a scholar, but a lot of scholars seem to think so. There are some detractors, but for the most part, this is allowed in Islamic finance. I am not going to say it's haraam, because that isn't my job; only Allah can decide that. However, it seems to be one of those issues where your conscience factors greatly into the decision. If you're like me, and honestly believe this to be interest in a hidden form, then it is probably best to stay away from it. However, other people may not see it that way, so for them it might be OK.

And Allah knows best.
Well, it is considered a form of halal trade amongst the jurists and is allowed in Islam (it's counted as a murabaha contract). But, the point you raise about it being hidden interest is well received and noted. It's a major problem in islamic banking right now and there still isn't much of a solution to it, because interest can so easily be (and most likely IS) hidden in the prices.

The only real way of determining if banks are/are not using hidden interest is through regulation - which opens a whole other can of worms. For one thing: an independant regulator, who is well versed in sharia economics is needed. The problem is we don't have many of them available right now [plenty of demand, no supply]; we can't use non-independant because they're on the bank's payroll [conflict of interest] and we can't use conventional regulators because they don't know sharia [and it takes a lot of time and money to train them].

Inshallah, as the market grows and expands, we will be able to set up a BoE equivalent that can help sort these problems out. Until then, however, the element of hidden interest will continue to exist in Islamic banks.
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

No doubt interest is unavoidable in some form or another. I mean, even the tax dollars we pay here in America goes to help loan money to banks (thank you government bailout :raging:)...so indirectly I am contributing to riba, but I can do nothing about it.
 
Re: Islamic Finance News

i stiil dont undestand islamic finance, it just seems a few words here and there are changed.
 
Re: Islamic Finance News

No doubt interest is unavoidable in some form or another. I mean, even the tax dollars we pay here in America goes to help loan money to banks (thank you government bailout :raging:)...so indirectly I am contributing to riba, but I can do nothing about it.

Lol; that's what I meant earlier about the wall of interest. We as muslims can do everything to prevent both charging and accepting it, but because of how the system works, we're gonna hit that wall.

Thus, there is definately a need for revolutionary islamic economicists, and I hope to be one by this time next year.

p.s; jazakallah kheir for taking the time to discuss this issue with me. I recommend all members ask questions about these topics; it'll help me with my revision and it will increase your knowledge on the matter (this is especially important for all muslims)

Edit:
Nightstar said:
i stiil dont undestand islamic finance, it just seems a few words here and there are changed.
There are differences, but there are also quite a few similarities. To put in to perspective. 90% of conventional banking is allowed in Islamic banking - so most of it is very similar; that's why it just looks like a few words have changed. The real difference between the two is equity finance (which Islam favours) vs debt finance (which conventional banks favour)
 
Last edited:
Re: Islamic Finance News

Lol; that's what I meant earlier about the wall of interest. We as muslims can do everything to prevent both charging and accepting it, but because of how the system works, we're gonna hit that wall.

Thus, there is definately a need for revolutionary islamic economicists, and I hope to be one by this time next year.

Insha'Allah you will do well.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top