Atheism Refuted

[Masuma]

^ Directed towards me? I'm not the one bringing evolution in. Its just a point which I mentioned. And it is not even wrong.

 

[Woodrow]

I


As I said before, we can refute those things which are actually wrong and Atheists believe them to be true.

True, but that will not prove Allaah(swt) and Islam are true, it will only prove they are wrong. We are wasting our time if we fail to prove we are right. Proving another person is wrong is not proof we are right.


In my example above in which I used 2+1=17 can not be proven wrong as there is the possibility an unknown factor exists that would prove it is true. We do not know the unknown factor or even if such exists. If some how we were to prove it is wrong, we only proved 17 is wrong and that means another number is correct. We then place our selves in the position of having to prove every number except 3 is wrong,

Far better we just stick with proving 3 is the correct and acceptable answer, with no need to prove any other number is wrong.

 

[Masuma]

True, but that will not prove Allaah(swt) and Islam are true, it will only prove they are wrong. We are wasting our time if we fail to prove we are right. Proving another person is wrong is not proof we are right. …If some how we were to prove it is wrong, we only proved 17 is wrong and that means another number is correct. We then place our selves in the position of having to prove every number except 3 is wrong.
Far better we just stick with proving 3 is the correct and acceptable answer, with no need to prove any other number is wrong.

And to this point, I totally agree. MashAllah, an excellent point mentioned!

But how would we prove God’s existence to Atheists? They won’t believe a word which Quran says. If we’ll ask them to look around and see how the world has been created, they would simply stick to their widely accepted “Evolution theory”. And for this reason I said that we then need to disprove their Evolution theory and then move forward.

Now the problem is that the moment we’ll be finished with “Evolution theory” completely refuted; Atheists would simply come up with a new one. So of-course there is no end to disbelief! In such case, what should be our technique of Dawah?

If there comes a definite “scientific law” which would not contradict Quran and would disprove evolution theory too, then we Muslims would have no problem with it.

In my example above in which I used 2+1=17 can not be proven wrong as there is the possibility an unknown factor exists that would prove it is true. We do not know the unknown factor or even if such exists.

The unknown factor? Do you mean like multiplying 2 with 8 and then adding 1 to the product, so 8 is the unknown factor? Heheehe.
“If the Atheists fail to give any “unknown factor” in support of their beliefs, then 2+1=17 has clearly been proven a fallacy. But I didn’t understand completely what you say here, so I’m not going to discuss it further.
I think that a thing which is ill-logical remains ill-logical. For a thing to be true, it must be true in each and every case.

 

[Woodrow]

I think that a thing which is ill-logical remains ill-logical. For a thing to be true, it must be true in each and every case.

It all depends on how it is worded. If I say "cars are blue." That is a true statement and does not apply in every situation, and can be proven simply by showing a blue car.

But, if I say "All cars are blue" That is probably a false statement, but I can not prove it is false. I can show a red car and that would not be proof as the person could have a psychological disturbance that causes them to see all cars as being blue. I can present different colored cars and those who can visually differentiate between colors will agree all cars are not blue and to them it will be proof. But I still can not prove the statement "All cars are blue" is false. I can only present evidence that some cars are not blue.


Refuting atheists is best left alone and the goal should be tp present them with reasons you believe Allaah(swt) exists. For many a good starting point is to show that the Qur'an was not written by man. Some evidence that supports this are:

1. The views of the early witnesses to the revelations

2. Showing that the Prophet(PBUH) was illiterate

3. Show that the Qur'an contains things that were unknown to the people at that time.

4. Point out the unique style and grammar of the Qur'an by comparing it with other Arabic works of the era

5. There is much more evidence that would be too long for me to type out

Once the Que'an is proven to be the work of Allaah(swt) it can be used as the source to prove the existence of Allaah(swt)

All we can do is present evidence as to why we believe. Everybody else is free to accept or deny the evidence. We can only present, we can not force acceptance, even if we tried too.

 

[Masuma]

It all depends on how it is worded. If I say "cars are blue." That is a true statement and does not apply in every situation, and can be proven simply by showing a blue car.

But, if I say "All cars are blue" That is probably a false statement, but I can not prove it is false. I can show a red car and that would not be proof as the person could have a psychological disturbance that causes them to see all cars as being blue.

To this I think that this is somewhat a description of the one on whose heart Allah has put a seal. No matter how much evidence we provide them, they would still not believe.

I can present different colored cars and those who can visually differentiate between colors will agree all cars are not blue and to them it will be proof. But I still can not prove the statement "All cars are blue" is false. I can only present evidence that some cars are not blue.

And so you are actually supporting my statement here .
Those "who can differentiate between colors" like Christians, Hindus, and those people who still have some commonsense and intelligence left and whose hearts have not been sealed, will get guidance by our act of "disproving that not all cars are blue" . So disproving would here definitely work!

Refuting atheists is best left alone and the goal should be tp present them with reasons you believe Allaah(swt) exists. For many a good starting point is to show that the Qur'an was not written by man. Some evidence that supports this are:

1. The views of the early witnesses to the revelations

2. Showing that the Prophet(PBUH) was illiterate

3. Show that the Qur'an contains things that were unknown to the people at that time.

4. Point out the unique style and grammar of the Qur'an by comparing it with other Arabic works of the era

5. There is much more evidence that would be too long for me to type out

Once the Que'an is proven to be the work of Allaah(swt) it can be used as the source to prove the existence of Allaah(swt)

MashAllah, again a brilliant advice. :statisfie May Allah bless you so much for this! Jazakamullahu Khair!

All we can do is present evidence as to why we believe. Everybody else is free to accept or deny the evidence. We can only present, we can not force acceptance, even if we tried too.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't present evidence to our beliefs but that is not "all what we can do". Like I said before, disproving wrong theories would also work for those whose hearts have not been sealed.

So what we Muslims can do is to disprove wrong theories as well as provide clear evidences for our beliefs!

 

[Woodrow]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't present evidence to our beliefs but that is not "all what we can do". Like I said before, disproving wrong theories would also work for those whose hearts have not been sealed.

So what we Muslims can do is to disprove wrong theories as well as provide clear evidences for our beliefs!

True, but there still is no need to dwell on the negative. The Beauty and truth of Islam is easier to speak of and that is what they thirst to hear. To those whose heart is open, let them see the Beauty and love, that will over ride and there will be no need to disprove those who are in error.

The people I deal mostly with are native American Lakotah, who follow the Traditional belief. It is a very beautiful religion and what they practice is very similar to Islam in regards to morality and personal behavior, but they do not believe in all of the Prophets. My da'wah with them consists primarily of educating them about Muhammad(PBUH).

 

[Masuma]

@ brother Woodrow:
Oho! Again the same thing- brother disproving IS necessary many times. For daw'ah one can use many techniques. In some case, as long as one might not disprove a fallacy, one might not be able to get his point across. E.g. if a Christian keeps on repeating that 'Trinity is right', so you can't just simply keep giving proofs for your beliefs. Now you first NEED to disprove Trinity and then give proofs for your beliefs. So actuly in this case, DISPROVING a wrong belief was more important! And do you know, even sometimes ''offering proofs for our beliefs'' actualy involves 'disproving' as the first step. E.g. when you are trying to prove that Quran is the word of God, so you would be required to disprove the claim that it was copied from the philosophers etc.
Now the thing is that we can't generalise people here. Different people have different ways of realising the truth and coming to a right way. That is why Allah orders Muslims to use different techniques suitable in a particular situation. Like in Surah Al- Imran, Verse 3, Allah says to call people of the book to ''common terms''; no disproving or offering proofs for our beliefs here!
So none of the techniques is unnecessary. Each and everyone of them
works in different conditions.

 

[Woodrow]

@ brother Woodrow:
Oho! Again the same thing- brother disproving IS necessary many times. For daw'ah one can use many techniques. In some case, as long as one might not disprove a fallacy, one might not be able to get his point across. E.g. if a Christian keeps on repeating that 'Trinity is right', so you can't just simply keep giving proofs for your beliefs. Now you first NEED to disprove Trinity and then give proofs for your beliefs. So actuly in this case, DISPROVING a wrong belief was more important! And do you know, even sometimes ''offering proofs for our beliefs'' actualy involves 'disproving' as the first step. E.g. when you are trying to prove that Quran is the word of God, so you would be required to disprove the claim that it was copied from the philosophers etc.
Now the thing is that we can't generalise people here. Different people have different ways of realising the truth and coming to a right way. That is why Allah orders Muslims to use different techniques suitable in a particular situation. Like in Surah Al- Imran, Verse 3, Allah says to call people of the book to ''common terms''; no disproving or offering proofs for our beliefs here!
So none of the techniques is unnecessary. Each and everyone of them
works in different conditions.

At last we discover we actually agree.

Very true we each have our own gifts as to the best approach to Da'wah and what is best for one person may not work for another.