ye - lol - I'm not bothering with this thread too long
Atheism
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ye - lol - I'm not bothering with this thread too long
Allah-creation
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i have a question for the athiest. explain to me how is it that our sun is the only sun that is close to us. Beside all the other suns that are light years away from us. And why is it in a perfect posion for our environment. Also, how is it that the atmosphere reflect most of the sun light and midifies it to best suit our environment.
They believe it's a concidence by chance
If all these things would not have been the case, intelligent life would not have developed. We wouldn't be here to debate why the sun is not in a perfect position. In our big galaxy there are plenty of places where the sun is not in a perfect position to facilitate life. But there are billions of stars, is it really so suprising that near some of them there are planets that are positioned well enough to support life?
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root
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I think Kading has got it right. Additionally, it is understood that during the formation of a solar system the lighter Gas matter is pushed further from the sun and the heavier matter which later goes on to form planets stays closer to the sun hence veavy rocky planets form closer to the sun while gas bags form further out. In a universe where their are more suns than grains of sand on our planet, is any wonder that a near infinate chance of planetory formation near to the sun occures.
Can we if we may take the below image as not being a design and consider the chances?
The above tree resides beside a roadside and if we look at this tree we notice that the branching closest to the road is very much restricted. We can say to ourselves that this tree was designed this way, for if the branches expanded into the road area then it would be hit by the lorries that passed by, we could further say that if those branches on the road side were even a metre longer then the tree would sustain damage from passing lorries.
Now I ask myself, was this tree designed to be inch perfect to account for the traffic or is it a simple case of "NATURAL FORCES" acting upon the tree! Our planet and solar system is comparable to this analogy.
Woodrow
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Out of all the happenings in this world. Perhaps the most difficult is the concept of how and why we see or hear any thing, much less comprehend anything.
A strange little fact about us Humans. Our brains are sealed and protected deep within the skulls. Under normal conditions, nothing penetrates our skull, not light, not smell, not sound. Our brains are perfectly shielded from all harm and outside influences. Yet, we have the ability to perceive sights, smell and taste and hear words. Then to carry it above that we can formulate thoughts from that. We live and exist in a world that we will never directly see or touch. Yet, we know it is there.
Just think about that for a while. I will be back later to state why it fits in with this thread.
A strange little fact about us Humans. Our brains are sealed and protected deep within the skulls. Under normal conditions, nothing penetrates our skull, not light, not smell, not sound. Our brains are perfectly shielded from all harm and outside influences. Yet, we have the ability to perceive sights, smell and taste and hear words. Then to carry it above that we can formulate thoughts from that. We live and exist in a world that we will never directly see or touch. Yet, we know it is there.
Just think about that for a while. I will be back later to state why it fits in with this thread.
Woodrow
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Now to explain this.
Can there be any biological advantage in why, we as humans have the need or reason to find a purpose for our life? If all of this is just the result of simple biological evolution, without pre designed purpose. What need would there be for us to have the ability to comprehend what exists beyond our own little inner worlds. What random biological happening would give us the ability of imagination?
cool_jannah
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Logic is the magic word. Atheism is all logic as claimed by them..isin't it? Well if you think you can plot and plan and decipher your own ways on the purpose of your existence, Allah, the Almighty, has His own ways to bring people back to the straight path. Since Atheists consider science as their source of inspiration and the truth that established science beholds cannot be proven wrong, there are a few things that athiests might be interested in reading - Click Here -->
http://www.islamicity.com/science/
http://www.science4islam.com/
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/index2.php?vPart=97&startno=1&thelang=E
czgibson
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Greetings,
Absolutely right, although perhaps not for the reasons you've given below. Philosophers have puzzled over the problem of perception for centuries.
This is because we have sense organs attached to our brain but not totally enclosed within the skull.
Unless you accept the brain in a vat hypothesis.
Do we?
Can we?
Having an imagination obviously gives us an enormous evolutionary advantage. If a creature can imagine the various possibilities resulting from several courses of action, it will clearly have a survival advantage over one that can't.
No.
Atheism is a belief. Beliefs may include logical reasoning, but they are ultimately bound by personal preference based on the evidence available, which clearly falls outside the bounds of logic.
I believe that the purpose of one's existence is something that each individual has to work out for themselves. The French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre said that each person's life is a continual search for the answer to the question "Who am I?" It is only at the moment of death that the totality of our personality has shown itself, and therefore only at that moment that we find the answer.
Science is a source of some inspiration, true, but it's mainly a source of information, explanation and discovery. I think that the arts are a much more potent source of inspiration in general.
This comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what science is and how it works. I suggest some further reading may be in order.
The usual 'scientific miracles in the Qur'an' nonsense? Yawn.
If you want to find out about science, how about reading some science texts? As in texts written by scientists, rather than religious apologists like the moronic Harun Yahya?
How about starting with a few of these pages:
Science - wikipedia entry
What is Science?
New Scientist - Internet Edition
Talk.Origins Archive
Peace
Absolutely right, although perhaps not for the reasons you've given below. Philosophers have puzzled over the problem of perception for centuries.
This is because we have sense organs attached to our brain but not totally enclosed within the skull.
Unless you accept the brain in a vat hypothesis.
Do we?
Can we?
Having an imagination obviously gives us an enormous evolutionary advantage. If a creature can imagine the various possibilities resulting from several courses of action, it will clearly have a survival advantage over one that can't.
No.
Atheism is a belief. Beliefs may include logical reasoning, but they are ultimately bound by personal preference based on the evidence available, which clearly falls outside the bounds of logic.
I believe that the purpose of one's existence is something that each individual has to work out for themselves. The French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre said that each person's life is a continual search for the answer to the question "Who am I?" It is only at the moment of death that the totality of our personality has shown itself, and therefore only at that moment that we find the answer.
Science is a source of some inspiration, true, but it's mainly a source of information, explanation and discovery. I think that the arts are a much more potent source of inspiration in general.
This comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what science is and how it works. I suggest some further reading may be in order.
The usual 'scientific miracles in the Qur'an' nonsense? Yawn.
If you want to find out about science, how about reading some science texts? As in texts written by scientists, rather than religious apologists like the moronic Harun Yahya?
How about starting with a few of these pages:
Science - wikipedia entry
What is Science?
New Scientist - Internet Edition
Talk.Origins Archive
Peace
QuranStudy
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Please do
Atheism is nothing more than another faith. A faith in the absence of God.
QuranStudy
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Have you see everything existing in the world and beyond?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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Greetings Callum,
Regarding what you said about personal preference: if this is based on evidence, then why does it have to fall outside the bounds of logic?
Hello Joe,
Peace.
I was quite surprised to read this. I thought atheism was claimed to be an absence of faith, and that the purpose of life was simply to pass on one's genes, as I believe some atheists have stated elsewhere on the forum.
Regarding what you said about personal preference: if this is based on evidence, then why does it have to fall outside the bounds of logic?
Hello Joe,
Since when did Muslims claim any of this? I think you will find more people will say it is filled with air particles as opposed to God's love!
How has Islam "proven" this?
Peace.
madeenahsh
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Atheism
By Haneef James Oliver
Taken from: Sacred Freedom
Is the Existence of a Creator Something That Can Be Proven Logically?
Atheism can be described as the belief that no creator exists, and that the universe was not brought about by divine knowledge, will and ability. The following is a short excerpt from Sacred Freedom which follows a process of logical deductions to show that our universe must have been created by an All-Wise and All-Knowing Creator:
Pivotal Quote:
“Those who believe in chance concede that it is something which is not by nature ordered. Once this is understood, the following question must be asked: How could something that is by nature disordered consistently create order? This is a scientific impossibility. Hence, it must be concluded that not only has a Creator created our universe, but that He is also continually administrating its awe-inspiring affairs.”
Excerpt:
To demonstrate the error of those who deny the existence of a Creator, one may consider the ordinary example of how a book comes into being. The existence of a book necessitates the existence of a publisher who possesses three attributes: Firstly, this publisher must possess the knowledge of the required fields of expertise for the production of this book. Secondly, the publisher must possess the will to carry out such a task by consciously embarking upon this project. Thirdly, the publisher must possess the ability to carry out the task of creating the pages, cover and binding of the book while finishing it with distinction.
Once this is understood, the irrationality of claiming that a book created itself, or that it came about by mere chance, becomes apparent. Is it possible to legitimately claim that a book came about without a publisher, or that this universe came about without a Creator - solely on the basis that this publisher or Creator has not been seen?
In actuality, understanding that a Creator exists is much easier to grasp than understanding that a simple object like a book has an originator, as the formation of our universe is far more sophisticated than the formation of any one particular object. Accordingly, the Creator stated regarding those who deny His existence:
“Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.” (52:35-36)
These verses prove that just as it would be impossible to claim that a book was created by nothing, it would also be impossible to claim that mankind was created by nothing. Likewise, just as it would be impossible to claim that a book created itself, it would also be impossible to claim that we created ourselves. Only one other possibility exists; that mankind and everything in this universe was brought about by an All-Knowing Creator.
It can be concluded that all things are known to come into existence by designers that possess the three attributes of knowledge, will and ability to create. No other conclusion can be drawn, except that our universe was fashioned by a Creator who possesses the knowledge, will and ability to create such an incredibly awe-inspiring formation.
Indeed, certain pieces of evidence left behind at the scene of a crime are considered incriminating proofs that lead courts to settle cases in an absolute manner. In the same way, Allah's Signs within His creation and the logical evidences contained within His revelation contain even more definite proofs that we were created by an All-Knowing, All-Powerful God.
“And upon the earth are Signs visible to all who have faith with certainty, just as there are Signs within your own selves. Will you not then see?” (51:20-21)
By Haneef James Oliver
Taken from: Sacred Freedom
Is the Existence of a Creator Something That Can Be Proven Logically?
Atheism can be described as the belief that no creator exists, and that the universe was not brought about by divine knowledge, will and ability. The following is a short excerpt from Sacred Freedom which follows a process of logical deductions to show that our universe must have been created by an All-Wise and All-Knowing Creator:
Pivotal Quote:
“Those who believe in chance concede that it is something which is not by nature ordered. Once this is understood, the following question must be asked: How could something that is by nature disordered consistently create order? This is a scientific impossibility. Hence, it must be concluded that not only has a Creator created our universe, but that He is also continually administrating its awe-inspiring affairs.”
Excerpt:
To demonstrate the error of those who deny the existence of a Creator, one may consider the ordinary example of how a book comes into being. The existence of a book necessitates the existence of a publisher who possesses three attributes: Firstly, this publisher must possess the knowledge of the required fields of expertise for the production of this book. Secondly, the publisher must possess the will to carry out such a task by consciously embarking upon this project. Thirdly, the publisher must possess the ability to carry out the task of creating the pages, cover and binding of the book while finishing it with distinction.
Once this is understood, the irrationality of claiming that a book created itself, or that it came about by mere chance, becomes apparent. Is it possible to legitimately claim that a book came about without a publisher, or that this universe came about without a Creator - solely on the basis that this publisher or Creator has not been seen?
In actuality, understanding that a Creator exists is much easier to grasp than understanding that a simple object like a book has an originator, as the formation of our universe is far more sophisticated than the formation of any one particular object. Accordingly, the Creator stated regarding those who deny His existence:
“Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.” (52:35-36)
These verses prove that just as it would be impossible to claim that a book was created by nothing, it would also be impossible to claim that mankind was created by nothing. Likewise, just as it would be impossible to claim that a book created itself, it would also be impossible to claim that we created ourselves. Only one other possibility exists; that mankind and everything in this universe was brought about by an All-Knowing Creator.
It can be concluded that all things are known to come into existence by designers that possess the three attributes of knowledge, will and ability to create. No other conclusion can be drawn, except that our universe was fashioned by a Creator who possesses the knowledge, will and ability to create such an incredibly awe-inspiring formation.
Indeed, certain pieces of evidence left behind at the scene of a crime are considered incriminating proofs that lead courts to settle cases in an absolute manner. In the same way, Allah's Signs within His creation and the logical evidences contained within His revelation contain even more definite proofs that we were created by an All-Knowing, All-Powerful God.
“And upon the earth are Signs visible to all who have faith with certainty, just as there are Signs within your own selves. Will you not then see?” (51:20-21)
جوري
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I don't see how anyone can make a statement like that?....question is where do you not see signs? how sophisticated is this universe?... from a humming bird and its flower to the human eye to the seasons as they change to the way the body fights infections... the body it is the most incredibly sophisticated piece of machinery let alone everything else around us... how many chances can nature alone get without complete anarchy... and if nature had its way why the perfection why the beauty? why not design to just function? my goodness .... anyhow to each his own.......
cool_jannah
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No, you are Athiest because you like to worship your desires. Its time to wake up. There are enough signs for you to believe in the Oneness of God.
What a waste of head...What intellect do you have if you depart this world in a state of disbelief and torment your own self with a painful punishment. You will be paying a miserable price for your ignorant beliefs.
If you truly wanted guidance you will get it provided you open you mind and heart..its not that tough....afterall its a matter of burning yourselves forever in a fire that is unbearable.
Woodrow
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I believe that is the reason you are an atheist. I am quite certain that you have done much searching and did not come to your conclusion without much thought.
However, many self-professed atheists, that I have met, call themselves atheist simply because they want to justify their own actions and have no desire to follow any established rule. I do not place you in that category, you are a thinker and aware of your logic.
A paradox of life. Both you and I probably have at least a functional level of intelligence. We have most likely searched in many of the same places and saw many of the same things. Yet, we have come to quite different conclusions.
To myself that is an indication that there is at least one factor, we have viewed differently. Perhaps it is this unmeasurable concept that seperates our thoughts. But the result is a paradox. The things I see as valid proof of God(swt) are the very same things you see as proof of random physical phenominae.
Very interesting world, to say the least.
cool_jannah
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wow. place your intellect over the intellect of the rest of the people no matter how reasonable they might be? You are not aware of the fact that Satan whispers into your mind and deceives you everytime you come closer to the truth.
Really? Crackpots is the word I would use for these "philosopers" who come up with the most idiotic concepts that preach nothing but falsehood. Just so you know...it will be too late by the time you realize the reality of your life...as per the philosophy of Sarte. Seriously man....I don't see how can people be so unrealistic? This is not a fairy tale..this is the reality of life...Click here http://www.themodernreligion.com/death/every-soul.html
ok let me ask you something...If somebody murders 300 people with a bomb and dies a natural death right after it. how should he be held accountable? or you think he is free from accountability? give me a logical answer.
You can correct me if im wrong! You mean to say that established scientific facts can be wrong?
Alhamdulillah. It might be nonsense to you. It is an undeniable truth to me.
To you is your way and to me is mine.
Thanks.. I am assuming that you have completely misunderstood the purpose of these facts being mentioned in the Qur'an. It is not a book of science..it is a book of signs. Just one simple clear unequivocal sentence in the Qur'an in agreement with established science is enough as a sign. There is not just one..there are many in the Qur'an.
syilla
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i agree with you...
how can the atheist ppl said that this beautiful world...was created by accident...or shall we say coincidence...
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