Atheists and vegetarianism

[Justufy]

lets say many people have contracted a virus whose spread can only be stopped by killing those people in a timely manner in order to save the rest of humanity. In such cases, certain people's godless morality might decide that "greater evil must be stopped by committing the lesser evil"

This is a false dillema wit respect to your analogy, there exists other means of stoping the spread of a virus, such as quarantine, no one needs to be ''killed'' I would like to point out that no holy book is needed to figure this out.

The Prophet said, "If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it; but if the plague breaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place."

Big Big common sense, why wouldn't atheists come up with the same reasoning?

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) I asked Allah's Apostle about the plague. He told me that it was a Punishment sent by Allah on whom he wished, and Allah made it a source of mercy for the believers, for if one in the time of an epidemic plague stays in his country patiently hoping for Allah's Reward and believing that nothing will befall him except what Allah has written for him, he will get the reward of a martyr."

Nope, in a religious context some natural forces may be attributed to divinity, for instance, Lightning coming down from the skye was an act of God up above before we knew otherwise.

so you now you know quarantining and its Islamic roots

the more we pursue knowledge the more superior it becomes!

I actually would say that Islamic philosophy is superior if I didn't think it was I wouldn't be Muslim

So you being muslim is because you subjectively think its a superior philosophy?

 

[جوري]

This is a false dillema wit respect to your analogy, there exists other means of stoping the spread of a virus, such as quarantine, no one needs to be ''killed'' I would like to point out that no holy book is needed to figure this out.

How does stopping the 'virus' by other means relate quarantining those who are sick so they don't infect others?

Big Big common sense, why wouldn't atheists come up with the same reasoning?

what reasoning when not 150 yrs ago or so folks couldn't correlate washing your hands with the spread and infection of others?

Nope, in a religious context some natural forces may be attributed to divinity, for instance, Lightning coming down from the skye was an act of God up above before we knew otherwise.

I have no idea what this means or its correlation to the topic.. in fact that is a common theme of most of what you write!

So you being muslim is because you subjectively think its a superior philosophy?

Subjective? yeah Ok maybe subjective to 1.86 billion people then!

all the best

 

[Justufy]

]How does stopping the 'virus' by other means relate quarantining those who are sick so they don't infect others?

This would be an effective way to stop the spread if the disease without resorting to killing the individuals.

what reasoning when not $150 yrs ago folks couldn't correlate washing your hands with the spread and infection of others?

sorry, I had no idea that the benefits of hand washing was documented in the qur'an well before that and associated with a good way to not spread infections to others, my bad.

I have no idea what this means or its correlation .. in fact that is a common theme of most of what you write!

It simply meant that when no explanation can be found for something, or cannot be explained then in these cases God was inserted. Out of curiosity, Do you view the disaster in Haiti as an act of God?

Subjective? yeah Ok maybe subjective to 1.86 billion people then!

And how does this ad popullum lend any credence to your subjective viewing of islam as superior?

all the best

Thank you. and all the best for you too.

 

[جوري]

This would be an effective way to stop the spread if the disease without resorting to killing the individuals.

This doesn't follow from what you have written earlier!

sorry, I had no idea that the benefits of hand washing was documented in the qur'an well before that and associated with a good way to not spread infections to others, my bad.

There are many things you don't know, that is precisely the point.. you and the other fellow think it is 'common knowledge' yet history tells a different story!

It simply meant that when no explanation can be found for something, or cannot be explained then in these cases God was inserted. Out of curiosity, Do you view the disaster in Haiti as an act of God?

There is a difference between knowing how something occurred as opposed to wherefore in the theological sense!
We don't know whether a plague hits a place as a test, or a punishment or the other multitudes of reasons for we are not God and neither judgment nor reason in that regard belongs to us.. so again the post evolved to what should be done during a time of a plague not why it occurred.. was that easy enough this time around for you to understand?

And how does this ad popullum lend any credence to your subjective viewing of islam as superior?

I said it was subjective to 1.86 billion people I didn't say whether it was or not.. obviously on some level I was being critical of you, given I don't think you understand simple statements for me to get into a deep theological or philosophical debate with you!

Thank you. and all the best for you too.

 

[Justufy]

This doesn't follow from what you have written earlier!

Pherhaps I have badly worded this, I hope its all clear now .

There are many things you don't know, that is precisely the point.. you and the other fellow think it is 'common knowledge' yet history tells a different story!

What passages in the qu'ran would those be ( the ones where it is said that washing hands is a good way to prevent infections) Enlighten me.

there is a difference between knowing how something occurred as opposed to wherefore in the theological sense!

Indeed,if you want to add a theological aspect to such disasters, could it be normal to ask what meaning/sense that might be?

We don't know whether a plague hits a place as a test, or a punishment or the other multitudes of reasons for we are not God and neither judgment nor reason in that regard belongs to us.. so again the post evolved to what should be done during a time of a plague not why it occurred.. was that easy enough this time around for you to understand?

Thats special pleading, so try again?

I said it was subjective to 1.86 billion people I didn't say whether it was or not..

Alright.

obviously on some level I was being critical of you, given I don't think you understand simple statements for me to get into a deep theological or philosophical debate with you!

I understand. However if you do want to get into said debate , I would be up for it, first you could start by giving a theological and philosophical reason for why this entity killed thousands of people in Haiti, a country that is alredy stricken by poverty and many other problems. Why would God, according to you unleash such a disaster on Haiti and not on other countries? why not Israel?

Special pleading does not count.

 

[Justufy]

I had a preacher friend saying that this was God's way of Rapturing the people of Haiti into heaven, however I remarked that perhaps he could of found a more delicate way then crushing them under loads of concrete and debris, leaving the unfortunate survivors starved and thirsty with no infrastructure.

 

[جوري]

Pherhaps I have badly worded this, I hope its all clear now .

How is it clearer?

What passages in the qu'ran would those be ( the ones where it is said that washing hands is a good way to prevent infections) Enlighten me.

Here are a few for brevity' sake!
Personal Hygiene In Islam

"Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers etc.).; (Al Baqarah 2:222)

O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.

Qur'an 4:43​

Abu Huraira reported the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) to have said: When a dog licks a utensil belonging to any one of you, (the thing contained in it) should be thrown away and then (the utensil) should be washed seven times.

Sahih Muslim 2:546, See Also Sahih Muslim 2:547, Sahih Muslim 2:548, Sahih Muslim 2:549, Sahih Muslim 2:550, Sahih Muslim 2:551, Al-Muwatta 2 6.36​

​

Narrated AbuMalik al-Ash'ari:

The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: Cleanliness is half of faith and Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah) fills the scale, and SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah) and Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah) fill up what is between the heavens and the earth, and prayer is a light, and charity is proof (of one's faith) and endurance is a brightness and the Qur'an is a proof on your behalf or against you. All men go out early in the morning and sell themselves, thereby setting themselves free or destroying themselves. (Sahih Muslim Book 2, Number 0432)​

Cleanliness In Islam Is Of Three Kinds:

1. 
   
   [*]Purification from impurity (i.e. to attain purity or cleanliness, by taking a bath (ghusl) or performing ablution (wudoo) in states in which a bath or ablution is necessary or desirable according to Islamic Law).
   [*]To cleanse one's body, dress or place from an impurity of filth.
   [*]To remove the dirt or grime that collects in various parts of the body, such as cleaning the teeth and nostrils, the trimming of nails and the removing of armpit and pubic hair.

Types of Purification Allah (the Most High) says in the Quran (what is translated to mean):

O you who believe! When you intend to offer prayer, wash your faces and your hands (forearms) up to the elbows, rub (by passing wet hands over) your heads, and (wash) your feet up to ankles. If you are in a state of Janaba (i.e. post sexual relations), purify yourself (bathe your whole body).; (Al-Ma'idah 5:6)​

1. GHUSL (A COMPLETE BATH) This is when all parts of the body are washed with water, including the mouth and the nose. WUDOO (A SIMPLE ABLUTION) This is when certain parts of the body are washed with water. For more information on this subject, please visit the following site The Prophet's Wudoo (Ablution): The superiority of ablution. And Al-Ghurr-ul-Muhajjalun (the parts of the body of the Muslims washed in ablution will shine on the Day of Resurrection and the angels will call them by that name) from the traces of ablution. Narrated Nu'aim Al-Mujmir:
   "Once I went up the roof of the mosque along with Abu Huraira (RA): He performed ablution and said, "I heard the Prophet (S) saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection, my followers will be called Al-Ghurr-ul-Muhajjalun from the traces of ablution and whoever can increase the area of his radiance should do so (by performing ablution in the most perfect manner.'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 1, Hadith No. 138)​
   Narrated Uthman ibn Affan:
   "The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: 'He who performed ablution well, his sins would come out from his body, even coming out from under his nails.'" (Sahih Muslim, Book 2, Number 0476)​
   TAYAMMUM (PURIFICATION WITHOUT WATER) This method of purifcation, which does not require water, is used instead of ablution (Wudoo) and Ghusl in certain circumstances (i.e. such as no water is available, etc.). Allah (the Most High) says in the Quran (what is translated to mean): But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (i.e. sexual intercourse) and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favor on you that you may be thankful.; (Al-Ma'idah 5:6)

Keeping The Fitrah Prophet (peace be upon him). He said, "From the acts of nature are five: circumcision (obligation for men, but not for women), removing pubic hairs, trimming the mustache, cutting the nails and plucking the hair from under the armpits."1 [Recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim]. It is not allowed to leave them for more than forty nights. This is based on the Hadith of Anas who said, "The Messenger of Allah set a time limit for us for trimming the mustache, trimming nails, removing armpit hairs and removing pubic hairs. They cannot be left for more than forty nights."2 [Recorded by Muslim]. Letting them grow long resembles animals and some of the disbelievers. May Allah keep you well.

Links: http://www.total.net/~lgmz/Health.htm

Indeed,if you want to add a theological aspect to such disasters, could it be normal to ask what meaning/sense that might be?

? firstly why would I want to? and secondly how can any conclusion reached have a semblance of the truth?

Thats special pleading, so try again?

I have no idea what this means (yet again)! one simple of way of judging success is to have a look at the peak period of history when Islam was implemented vs. other 'philosophies' Christianity's dark ages rather speaks volumes of its success and common sense!
Other philosophies have been widely replaced with science and its founding fathers have remained shelved in philosophy classes and history books to mark a particular period of history and for the pleasure of atheists to bring up whenever they desire a deflection from the really hard questions of why this and not that!

Alright.

 I understand. However if you do want to get into said debate , I would be up for it, first you could start by giving a theological and philosophical reason for why this entity killed thousands of people in Haiti, a country that is alredy stricken by poverty and many other problems. Why would God, according to you unleash such a disaster on Haiti and not on other countries? why not Israel?

Again why would I want to? to do so is to assume a position that isn't ours and never was.. also, if there are disasters to befall a place of divine proportion and promise it will be Israel.. it is a question of when not why though!

Special pleading does not count.

I mean this in the nicest of ways.. but you need to work on your English.. I have no idea what you want or mean half the times!
and would prefer it if you not waste my time all together by quoting me in posts that weren't in fact directed at you.. I so hate to whittle myself on every person with an opinion!
all the best

 

[Justufy]

Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations themselves. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption.

The lack of criticism may be a simple oversight (e.g., a reference to common sense) or an application of a double standard.


An example of special pleading would be to say that something is the act of God but one does not know why God did or caused it because no one can know what God thinks.

An example:

I know the idea that ball lightning is caused by ghosts makes no sense to you, but that's only because you're human. Humans cannot understand supernatural phenomena

 

[Justufy]

And no where does your quotes verses say anything about infections, what about hindus that bath in the gange? are they fighting infections also by bathing in the pure ( most polluted river) in the world?

 

[جوري]

I know what a specious argument is! I don't see its relevance to the thread nor the current distilled subject matter especially with the sort of phraseology you use!..
if you want to start a new thread, then by all means, but there is no point to meander yet another thread to suit your immediate whims!

all the best

 

[جوري]

And no where does your quotes verses say anything about infections, what about hindus that bath in the gange? are they fighting infections also by bathing in the pure ( most polluted river) in the world?

If you want a book that covers all aspects of prophetic medicine then you may purchase it directly from amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Medicine-Prophet-Islamic-Texts-Society/dp/0946621195

I will not layout compendiums because you decided that the amount of info given wasn't sufficient to satisfy your personal needs or because you can't follow from a basic premise .. in it you'll also learn (should that in fact be your desire) why it isn't OK to bathe in filthy water, or bathe your sheep or bury your dead where you use water for food or medicine!

all the best

 

[Justufy]

If you want a book that covers all aspects of prophetic medicine then you may purchase it directly from amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Medicine-Prophet-Islamic-Texts-Society/dp/0946621195

I may sound cheap, but I wont purchase anything , thank you. And prophetic medicine? first time I hear the term. Would you really think that the qur'an could replace modern medicine?

I will not layout compendiums because you decided that the amount of info given wasn't sufficient to satisfy your personal needs or because you can't follow from a basic premise .. in it you'll also learn (should that in fact be your desire)

I was hoping for some substance in the here and now and not some advice to buy a book, I will however check at my local library next time I go, mabey they have it? mabey not.

it isn't OK to bathe in filthy water, or bathe your sheep or bury your dead where you use water for food or medicine! all the best

Do you really think that people before 700 AD ( before the qur'an) did not know these things? I would be surprised if they did not :/. If this is the only health advice that is found in the qur'an, nothing new there.

I know what a specious argument is! I don't see its relevance to the thread nor the current distilled subject matter especially with the sort of phraseology you use!..
if you want to start a new thread, then by all means, but there is no point to meander yet another thread to suit your immediate whims!

all the best

I guess you are right, this should be left for another thread, however it will still be special pleading in the other thread if you start from the premise that we cannot know what God wants because he is God.

 

[جوري]

I may sound cheap, but I wont purchase anything , thank you. And prophetic medicine? first time I hear the term. Would you really think that the qur'an could replace modern medicine?

lol.. ok..
the Quran is a book of signs not a book of science, however nothing in the Quran or hadith contradicts science and there are certainly remedies that are still used modern day. Medicine is ever correcting and ever changing but certain fundamentals never change, even if from a western standard they are a modern find 'like washing your hands for instance'

I was hoping for some substance in the here and now and not some advice to buy a book, I will however check at my local library next time I go, mabey they have it? mabey not.

You were given plenty of substance and directly addressing what you wanted.. you decided it wasn't good enough, and there is nothing I can personally do about that, furthermore if you can't read a text and find a multitude of ways where a basic principal is useful, then again the fault here lies with you not with what is written. There will always be situations now a adays and diseases of now a days that weren't in existence back then, it still wouldn't change certain things for instance not infecting other people with your diseases will never go out of style!

Do you really think that people before 700 AD ( before the qur'an) did not know these things? I would be surprised if they did not :/. If this is the only health advice that is found in the qur'an, nothing new there.

I am not here to dwell on what I know or don't know, fact is I have shown that something as basic as washing your hands before surgery was elusive almost a hundred and fifty years ago.. further to add insult to injury and I quote:

To a modern reader, Semmelweis's experimental evidence—that chlorine washings reduced childbed fever—seem obvious, and it may seem absurd that his claims were rejected on the grounds of purported lack of "scientific reasoning". His unpalatable observational evidence was only accepted when seemingly-unrelated work by Louis Pasteur in Paris some two decades later offered a theoretical explanation for Semmelweis's observations: the germ theory of disease.

so I leave it to students of history to discern what was common sense and what wasn't!

I guess you are right, this should be left for another thread, however it will still be special pleading in the other thread if you start from the premise that we cannot know what God wants because he is God.

If you know what God wants aside from what we were given scripturally then I applaud you man, you've been singled out of creation and given special knowledge..

as for other threads I promise you I have no desire to re-engage you in any form or fashion so I'll be staying out of it.. so good luck with all the inane drivel!

 

[Justufy]

lol.. ok..
the Quran is a book of signs not a book of science,

agreed.

however nothing in the Quran or hadith contradicts science and there are certainly remedies that are still used modern day. Medicine is ever correcting and ever changing but certain fundamentals never change, even if from a western standard they are a modern find 'like washing your hands for instance'

Of course, but I would of tought that washing your hands with water, no soap or whatever does not really cleanse germs. and washing any part of the body with water is not new, its not the qur'an that invented this, just think of the terms of caracala in ancient rome, this was my point, the qur'an is meerly stating the obvious.

You were given plenty of substance and directly addressing what you wanted.. you decided it wasn't good enough, and there is nothing I can personally do about that, furthermore if you can't read a text and find a multitude of ways where a basic principal is useful, then again the fault here lies with you not with what is written. There will always be situations now a adays and diseases of now a days that weren't in existence back then, it still wouldn't change certain things for instance not infecting other people with your diseases will never go out of style!

I was told to buy a book, this reminded me of those commercials where they say <<buy this article for only 25.99$ and get another free!>>

I am not here to dwell on what I know or don't know, fact is I have shown that something as basic as washing your hands before surgery was elusive almost a hundred and fifty years ago.. further to add insult to injury and I quote:

With the methods of surgery back then, the fact that the '' doctor'' would of washed his hands would be the very least of my concerns im affraid.

To a modern reader, Semmelweis's experimental evidence—that chlorine washings reduced childbed fever—seem obvious, and it may seem absurd that his claims were rejected on the grounds of purported lack of "scientific reasoning". His unpalatable observational evidence was only accepted when seemingly-unrelated work by Louis Pasteur in Paris some two decades later offered a theoretical explanation for Semmelweis's observations: the germ theory of disease.

Il look into that experiment, never heard of it.

If you know what God wants aside from what we were given scripturally then I applaud you man, you've been singled out of creation and given special knowledge..

How do you know that what was given scripturally is the word of this entity? how can you know this? how can you know Im not connected to God as we speak- just like the ancient desert pastoralists you cite claimed to be? What about all the others ( and there are many others) who claim to know what this entity wills ( deus vult!) ? Are they right or wrong? If I was a muslim claiming to be in direct contactwith God, would I be any more right that a christian claiming to be in direct contact with God? If yes, how so?¸

Some important questions I would like answers to, if you could dignify them with a response It would be much appreciated!

as for other threads I promise you I have no desire to re-engage you in any form or fashion so I'll be staying out of it.. so good luck with all the inane drivel!

why, thank you!

 

[Justufy]

As for quarantine, a modest search shows that it was introduced by the Byzantine empire in AD549 and not a ground breaking discovery by the qur'an.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/typhoid/quarantine.html

<<A.D. 549
In the wake of one of history's most devastating epidemics of bubonic plague, the Byzantine emperor Justinian enacts a law meant to hinder and isolate people arriving from plague-infested regions.>>

 

[جوري]

Of course, but I would of tought that washing your hands with water, no soap or whatever does not really cleanse germs. and washing any part of the body with water is not new, its not the qur'an that invented this, just think of the terms of caracala in ancient rome, this was my point, the qur'an is meerly stating the obvious.
I was told to buy a book, this reminded me of those commercials where they say <<buy this article for only 25.99$ and get another free!>>

Soap and perfumery as you know is an Islamic invention.. didn't I request that you read before you write so you come across less ignorant?
A number of hygienic cosmetics were invented by Muslim chemists, cosmetologists and physicians.[70]

• Cosmetic dentistry and tooth bleaching: In his Al-Tasrif (c. 1000), Abulcasis described methods for strengthening the gums and introduced the method of tooth bleaching using tooth whiteners.[71]
• Beauty parlour and cosmetology school: In the 9th century, Ziryab opened the first beauty parlour and "cosmetology school" for women near Alcázar, Al-Andalus."[72]
• Chemical depilatory for hair removal: In the 9th century, Ziryab taught women in Al-Andalus "the shaping of eyebrows and the use of depilatories for removing body hair".[72]
• Hair care and hair dye: In his Al-Tasrif (c. 1000), Abulcasis first described hair dyes for changing human hair color to blond or black hair, and hair care for correcting kinky or curly hair.[71] Dyestuff was also created by earlier Muslim chemists.[73]
• Lipstick, solid: In 1000 CE, the Andalusian Arab cosmetologist Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis) invented solid lipsticks, which were perfumed stocks rolled and pressed in special molds, and he described them in his Al-Tasrif.[71]
• Pomade: Produced by Arabs.[13]

[edit] Hygiene

• Hand cream and lotion, and suntan lotion: In his Al-Tasrif (c. 1000), Abulcasis described the first hand creams and lotions, and the first early suntan lotions, describing their ingredients and benefits in depth.[71]
• Modern soap: The soap now used in modern times is made of vegetable oils (such as olive oil) with sodium hydroxide and aromatics (such as thyme oil). This formula was invented by Muslim chemists, and differed from the earlier soap-like detergents used in ancient times.[10] Sodium lye (al-soda al-kawia), perfumed and colored soaps, and liquid and solid soaps, were also produced by Muslim chemists.[70]
• Soap bar: The first hard soap bars were produced by Muslim chemists.[10] They gave recipes for soaps made from sesame oil, potash, alkali, lime, and molds, leaving hard soap.[70]
• Toothpaste, functional and pleasant: In the 9th century, the Persian musician and fashion designer Ziryab is known to have invented a type of toothpaste, which he popularized throughout Islamic Spain.[74] The exact ingredients of this toothpaste are not currently known,[72] but unlike the earlier Egyptian and Roman toothpastes, Ziryab's toothpaste was reported to have been both "functional and pleasant to taste."[74] In circa 1000, Abulcasis recommended a toothpaste made from cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom and coriander leaves, as a remedy for bad breath resulting from eating garlic or onions.[71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_medieval_Islam

it wasn't merely water that was used as stated I will not lay out compendiums for someone who refuses to do the bare minimum!

With the methods of surgery back then, the fact that the '' doctor'' would of washed his hands would be the very least of my concerns im affraid.

Again it is because you have no knowledge of history nor medicine..

How do you know that what was given scripturally is the word of this entity? how can you know this? how can you know Im not connected to God as we speak- just like the ancient desert pastoralists you cite claimed to be? What about all the others ( and there are many others) who claim to know what this entity wills ( deus vult!) ? Are they right or wrong? If I was a muslim claiming to be in direct contactwith God, would I be any more right that a christian claiming to be in direct contact with God? If yes, how so?¸

I don't think what you have is the word of God, I never claimed that it is, in fact I know quite the opposite.. and if you are personally connected to God then I suggest you head to your nearest psychiatrist, since your problems will go way beyond what anyone can offer on this forum also while at it I'd seriously consider enrolling in some basic courses on grammar, logic, history and theology. I can't stand sorting through your drivel much longer!

Some important questions I would like answers to, if you could dignify them with a response It would be much appreciated!

start your own thread and see if anyone has enough patience to bare with your language and your sphere of thought processes!

why, thank you

indeed!

 

[Justufy]

Soap and perfumery as you know is an Islamic invention

the same way electricity is a christian invention. of course it can't be an arab invention no, it has to be a Muslim™ invention. I do agree however that the arab world in general was in advance technologically on many of their european counterparts.

I don't think what you have is the word of God, I never claimed that it is, in fact I know quite the opposite.. and if you are personally connected to God then I suggest you head to your nearest psychiatrist, since your problems will go way beyond what anyone can offer on this forum also while at it I'd seriously consider enrolling in some basic courses on grammar, logic, history and theology. I can't stand sorting through your drivel much longer!

blah blah. what about the prophet? had you lived back then, ( and lets assume psychiatry existed back then) would you of told him the same thing.?

Again it is because you have no knowledge of history nor medicine..

so according to you, surgery in 700 AD or so was effective? You do know that until very recently molten led was poured on wounds?

 

[جوري]

As for quarantine, a modest search shows that it was introduced by the Byzantine empire in AD549 and not a ground breaking discovery by the qur'an.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/typhoid/quarantine.html

<<A.D. 549
In the wake of one of history's most devastating epidemics of bubonic plague, the Byzantine emperor Justinian enacts a law meant to hinder and isolate people arriving from plague-infested regions.>>

Perhaps it is a merely comprehension impediment on your part, if you go back and follow the flow of this thread and I really hope you would in general as to not waste everyone's time, you'd see that the atheist fellow asked of the Islamic view on breakout epidemics not whether it was a 'unique' view.. obviously Arabia as the time of said ahadith which is not that far from 549 AD had no internet contacts of the outside world..
The emperor in your case meant to enact a law to hinder folks from coming into his ports, certainly doesn't cover the aspect of whether his own port was covered by the plague if he'd impose a similar sanction on himself and his own people.

Also before speaking in general I'd again familiarize myself the differences between the Quran and Ahadith..
I think I see more wisdom each day in the adage: Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience

all the best!

 

[جوري]

the same way electricity is a christian invention. of course it can't be an arab invention no, it has to be an islamic invention. I do agree however that the arab world in general was in advance technologically on many of their european counterparts.

No, not an 'Arab invention' Islam is the religion of the scientists as such their achievements go to the Muslim empire. We have seen nothing out of 'Christendom' save for soulless women and the darkest of ages anything outside of that is certainly a secular progress!

blah blah. what about the prophet? had you lived back then, ( and lets assume psychiatry existed back then) would you of told him the same thing.?

I'd get your echolalia checked by a psychiatrist, again we are not here to remedy your mental problems in whatever form they take!

so according to you, surgery in 700 AD or so was effective? You do know that until very recently molten led was poured on wounds?

You seem to pose and answer your own questions, and I suggest you continue on that road, I find you unreasonably tedious and completely under-educated!

all the best

 

[Justufy]

Perhaps it is a merely comprehension impediment on your part, if you go back and follow the flow of this thread and I really hope you would in general as to not waste everyone's time, you'd see that the atheist fellow asked of the Islamic view on breakout epidemics not whether it was a 'unique' view.. obviously Arabia as the time of said ahadith which is not that far from 549 AD had no internet contacts of the outside world..

I got the vibe that you were attempting to claim that it was God's unique message, im glad we now agree.

The emperor in your case meant to enact a law to hinder folks from coming into his ports, certainly doesn't cover the aspect of whether his own port was covered by the plague if he'd impose a similar sanction on himself and his own people.

does not matter, the method was used to stop or slow the epidemic.

Also before speaking in general I'd again familiarize myself the differences between the Quran and Ahadith..

you don't know me.

I think I see more wisdom each day in the adage: Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience

always a pleasure.