Atheists?

[Pygoscelis]

Each religion defines God differently, but this doesn't mean that they view other groups with other definitions as being atheists.

Yes, it does. Unless you are going to redefine what "atheist" means as well? Atheist means non-belief in God. If you don't believe in God as they define it then you are an atheist, by definition.

I am concerned with morality and I support any means that works to produce it. Political oppression, as in the book 1984, doesn't produce morality. Good religion does.

I think you are going to have to define what you mean by "morality" now, as you seem to be working with definitions unique unto yourself. Especially given that you hold up the old testament bible as a book full of "morality".

This is a barbaric book that calls for everything from human sacrifice to genocide. Do you consider the stories of Abraham and Isaac (where God calls for a human sacrifice as an obedience test) and of Lot (who pimps out his daughters to avoid angel rape) and Job (whose life is ruined just to settle a bet) moral? How about Adam and Eve? What is the morality in that? How about the slaughter of neighbouring tribes, mountain of foreskins, God purposefully hardening the pharoah's heart and then slaughtering all the first born sons of Egypt? Seriously, where is the morality in this book? The Ten Commandments? Is that it? The one that is only half about being good and the other half about blind obedience to power?

And good religion provides for people's emotional needs, whatever those are.

So do a lot of drugs.

 

[fschmidt]

Yes, it does. Unless you are going to redefine what "atheist" means as well? Atheist means non-belief in God. If you don't believe in God as they define it then you are an atheist, by definition.

Wrong. Here we are on a Muslim forum, so why don't you just ask them if they consider Christians and Jews to be atheists.

I think you are going to have to define what you mean by "morality" now, as you seem to be working with definitions unique unto yourself. Especially given that you hold up the old testament bible as a book full of "morality".

This is a barbaric book that calls for everything from human sacrifice to genocide. Do you consider the stories of Abraham and Isaac (where God calls for a human sacrifice as an obedience test) and of Lot (who pimps out his daughters to avoid angel rape) and Job (whose life is ruined just to settle a bet) moral? How about Adam and Eve? What is the morality in that? How about the slaughter of neighbouring tribes, mountain of foreskins, God purposefully hardening the pharoah's heart and then slaughtering all the first born sons of Egypt? Seriously, where is the morality in this book? The Ten Commandments? Is that it? The one that is only half about being good and the other half about blind obedience to power?

Of course you don't understand the Old Testament, and I wouldn't expect otherwise. And I don't really need to define morality yet, but I will just let you know how far apart we are and we can come back to this later. In my opinion, most members of modern culture will need to be exterminated eventually (in a few generations). This is because modern culture is highly dysgenic and is doing enormous damage to the human gene pool. Modern culture is not yet genetically inferior, but it certainly will be in a few generations. Culling these bad genes from the human gene pool will be essential to human survival as a superior species. Now I am sure that you are horrified by this, which is fine because it lets you see how far apart we are, and possibly lets you see why I support the ethics of the Old Testament.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Wrong. Here we are on a Muslim forum, so why don't you just ask them if they consider Christians and Jews to be atheists.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews, are all monotheistic religions that believe in a personal intelligent God being. You said that you don't. And if you don't meet their definition of what God is, then you are an atheist. That is how words work. Unless you have a completely different definition unique to yourself of what "atheist" means. I asked you above and you didn't say you do.

And I don't really need to define morality yet

I am afraid that yes, you really do. Based all your other definitions unique to you, I can not assume that we are talking the same language when you say "morality". You may mean something completely unique to yourself. So discussion with you is pointless until you define your terms.

most members of modern culture will need to be exterminated eventually (in a few generations).

So now you are Isis and want to kill everybody who doesn't agree with you. You are getting more and more fun.

This is because modern culture is highly dysgenic and is doing enormous damage to the human gene pool. Modern culture is not yet genetically inferior, but it certainly will be in a few generations.

Culture is not genetic... I can only wonder what else you think is genetic. Are you one of those people who believe that certain "races" of people are inferior to others?

Now I am sure that you are horrified by this, which is fine because it lets you see how far apart we are, and possibly lets you see why I support the ethics of the Old Testament.

I am not horrified. I'm not even sure if I should take you seriously. You appear to be a troll making this up as you go along.

But if you are serious, no, it does not explain at all why you would see ethics in the old testament. You have given no explanation of what exactly your values are other than that you want obedience to an alpha-male, and the old testament bible (the whole bible actually) is so full of ambiguity that you could mean many different things.

 

[fschmidt]

Christians, Muslims, and Jews, are all monotheistic religions that believe in a personal intelligent God being. You said that you don't. And if you don't meet their definition of what God is, then you are an atheist. That is how words work. Unless you have a completely different definition unique to yourself of what "atheist" means. I asked you above and you didn't say you do.

Judaism does not require that God be "a personal intelligent God being".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism#Rationalistic_conception
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology#In_the_Jewish_tradition

I am afraid that yes, you really do. Based all your other definitions unique to you, I can not assume that we are talking the same language when you say "morality". You may mean something completely unique to yourself. So discussion with you is pointless until you define your terms.

Fine. Morality is subjective, so cannot meaningfully be defined, but I can approximately describe my morality. In my view, morality is basically what is good for the long term health of a society. This is probably the most objective definition that you will see and can be objectively measured. Those behaviors that correlate with rising cultures are probably moral, and those behaviors that correlate with declining cultures are probably immoral. (Probably, because correlation isn't causation and in fact causation cannot be proven in history, but correlation is the best thing we've got.) Note that morality has nothing to do with the success of societies other than one's own. If wiping out the neighboring society is good for one's society, then it is moral.

So now you are Isis and want to kill everybody who doesn't agree with you. You are getting more and more fun.

Isis will fail in the long run (from making too many enemies), so it is not moral.

Culture is not genetic... I can only wonder what else you think is genetic. Are you one of those people who believe that certain "races" of people are inferior to others?

Culture is currently human's biggest environmental factor, so it plays the biggest role in human evolution. Certainly races differ but humanity is continually evolving, so these differences are transitory.

I am not horrified. I'm not even sure if I should take you seriously. You appear to be a troll making this up as you go along.

But if you are serious, no, it does not explain at all why you would see ethics in the old testament. You have given no explanation of what exactly your values are other than that you want obedience to an alpha-male, and the old testament bible (the whole bible actually) is so full of ambiguity that you could mean many different things.

I am not making this up as I go along, and you can read the Mikraite website to see this and to see my views explained in detail.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Fine. Morality is subjective, so cannot meaningfully be defined, but I can approximately describe my morality. In my view, morality is basically what is good for the long term health of a society. This is probably the most objective definition that you will see and can be objectively measured.

It isn't objective at all if you don't define what "health of a society" means. Do you mean population number? Average lifespan? Average contentment and happiness? Number of disease causing viruses and bacteria? Diversity? Lack of diversity?

Isis will fail in the long run (from making too many enemies), so it is not moral.

So if isis had some sort of super weapon and was able to destroy all of its enemies and reign supreme, whilst cutting off heads of all that disagree with its barbaric "moral values", that would make it properly moral to you? Might makes right to you?

Culture is currently human's biggest environmental factor, so it plays the biggest role in human evolution.

But it is not genetic. Read what you wrote above. Try to be consistent eh?

Certainly races differ but humanity is continually evolving, so these differences are transitory.

Which race is superior? Are you a white supremecist KKK type? I have to keep guessing with you since you are so cryptic.

I am not making this up as I go along, and you can read the Mikraite website to see this and to see my views explained in detail.

I took a brief look. You appear to be a wannabe cult leader with only a handful of followers. That or you are a troll looking for attention (more likely). Now you have plugged your little website and made your agenda clear, get back to us once you and your weird little homocidal cult (or pretend one) have enough followers to be a real concern. Until then, we'll focus on Islam, since that is what this site is about after all.

 

[fschmidt]

I am thrilled with the possibility that open minded atheists may actually exist.

This was probably my main motive in starting this thread, to find out whether open minded atheists actually exist. Apparently not. So now this thread can fade away.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Riiiiight, you, an atheist yourself, came to a Muslim board looking for atheists, to tell them about how you want to murder them and adhere to might makes right dictatorial values.... and plug your little cult website. I don't think anybody reading this will fail to see right through you.

 

[YusufNoor]

Good to see you! But hey, don't go ruining my cred as the bad guy here

Sadly, Pygo, Muslims do not realize that they ARE the bad guys! Muslims are full of hate, the Prophet wasn't. Muslims are ignorant, the Prophet wasn't.

Muslims do not realize that Anwar Al Awlaki was a stooly for the FBI/CIA. Muslims are caught in the old MK Ultra/Cointelpro net!

The Prophet had the best of character, yet Muslims come of as a bunch of misogynistic, uneducated, backward fools!

Muslims would rather kill, than develop their character into anything resembling Rasulullah!

Islam brought much freedom and equality to women, yet Muslims oppress their women!

Islam is awesome!

Muslims......

pretty much come off as scum of the earth and they are proud of it!

Athiests, Buddhists, Christians, gays and transgenders in America show much more love and compassion than Muslims.

Muslims are quick to kill and slow to understand!

It is sad. I no longer associate with Muslims, except that Masjid in Albuquerque amazed me! Some of the Muslims there went to one of the vigils for the folks in Orlando! They even invited the LGBT community to break fast any time during Ramadhan! I must visit them, in shaa Allah! They chose love and compassion over idiocy! Just watch the Muslims freak out when they learn that!

My favorite speaker, Mufti Ismail Menk, posted condolences for the people of Orlando on facespy and then proceeded to get attacked by many Muslims!

where is the "Comparative Character" section? we'd lose that one!

Why are atheists here?

maybe they are here just to raise the level of discussion! to "raise the property values" so to speak!

Muslims want to prove that everyone else is wrong! That is a waste of time!

Focus on character and manners! Hard to do, when you don't have them! But it is the proper Jihad!

Just think of all of the countries with a majority Muslim population. How many of the countries are oases' of Justice, with the world clamoring to live there?

any???

not even one!

Pygo ain't the enemy! We are!

It is a good thing that Rasulullah did not live to see Muslims today. How broken-hearted would he be?????

Ma Salaama