(Athiest) Richard Dawkins: 'Children need to be protected' from religious parents

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Apologies for posting this. This article helps us to understand the atheistic worldview. Notably how ugly it is.

Richard Dawkins: 'Children need to be protected' from religious parents

Richard Dawkins has called on schools to protect children from being indoctrinated by their religious parents.

The renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist argued that parents were given too much power over their children’s educations, and that it was time to give more rights back to the individuals themselves.

“There is a balancing act and you have to balance the rights of parents and the rights of children and I think the balance has swung too far towards parents,” he said.

“Children do need to be protected so that they can have a proper education and not be indoctrinated in whatever religion their parents happen to have been brought up in.”

Physicist Lawrence Krauss, who also took part in the interview with The Irish Times, agreed.

“That means parents have a limited — it seems to be — limited rights in determining what the curriculum is,” Krauss said.

“The state is providing the education, it’s trying to make sure all children have equal opportunity.

“And parents of course have concerns and a say, but they don’t have the right to shield their children from knowledge. That’s not a right any more than they have the right to shield their children from health care or medicine. And those parents that do that are often tried and imprisoned when they refuse to allow their children to get blood transfusions or whatever is necessary for their health. And this is necessary for their mental health.”

The pair spoke ahead of their joint address at Trinity College Dublin on Tuesday evening.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...rotected-from-religious-parents-10071712.html

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Junon;

Richard Dawkins has called on schools to protect children from being indoctrinated by their religious parents.

I wonder if he has called on schools asking them to protect children from being indoctrinated by their athiest parents?

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[M.I.A.]

I think they crossed the line ever so slightly..

They ended up in the next field for sure.

The debate should not be about religion at all.. Or those atheists beliefs.

Without even mentioning god... Which should appease them no end.

Our children grow up in multicultural societies of differing background.

Why should they not be educated on the beliefs of OTHERS?

Sure they won't be as accurate as a PhD in astro-physics...

But that's not the point at that age is it?

Its about giving some context to the differences between us.. And one would hope.. Not driving a wedge between them.

Respected scientists they may be.. But they are pushing it.

Its a joke, they should try attend meetings to promote telling children Santa does not exist.

That's literally the absurdity of the argument they pose.

Now if they imply religion should not be taught to children.. Then they should plainly say it.

The alternative is already being taught. Science, math etc.

The funny thing is maybe morality and ethics are not up there and are key skills indeed.

I reread op's post and it becomes more offensive each time..

They should get of there high horses and become teachers aids for a while.


OK last point, if Dawkins called himself a Christian and said Jews and Muslims where not allowed in his school.

Then most if you would give him a boot on the arse.

Same if he said Muslim only or Jew only or white only..

So why does he talk about indoctrination?

He's hardly the master race reporting in... Although if you let him.

His ego will not say no.

Incidentally I would not put me foot up his arse.. That's not me.

 

[Abz2000]

The state is providing the education, it’s trying to make sure all children have equal opportunity.

Is the state an intelligent and wise person or do people who are lobbied by every type of twisted and corrupt company on the planet make up laws for it while running it as a profit based corporation that gets leeched dry by signing interest bearing loans on the backs of unrepresented people? People who are forced to accept paper IOUs bearing a faithless promise to pay X pounds of sterling silver.
Talk about taking deception and infidelity to a whole new level!

Reminds me of how Abu Sufyan and co. used to make laws in the name of inanimate idols and demand allegiance.

SubhanAllah.

Tony Blair used visits to Libya after he left office to lobby for business for the American investment bank JP Morgan, The Daily Telegraph has been told.

Tony Blair has slapped down David Cameron for suggesting that the former prime minister used his position to lobby him – possibly for private clients.

Mr Cameron yesterday sought to fend off questions about the business interests of the Tories' chief election strategist Lynton Crosby by drawing a comparison with Blair.

At a press conference said Mr Cameron said: “Tony Blair is someone who does lobby me from time to time on things like the Middle East peace process."

“Do I have to know who all Tony Blair's other clients are? If I did that, I don't think I've got enough paper in my office to write them on.”

But a spokesperson for Blair then hit back, saying nobody could “seriously compare” Blair's work as Middle East envoy with that of a business lobbyist.

In 2009, Shell Oil Co. was facing allegations of international bribery in Nigeria. It told federal prosecutors that one of its employees approved and facilitated the bribes and then lied about his role to company lawyers. In 2010, the case took an unexpected turn.

The employee, senior petroleum engineer Robert Writt, sued for defamation. He claimed that the energy giant’s allegations were lies that slandered his good reputation.

Shell destroyed his reputation in an attempt to cover-up the truth and minimise financial consequences to Shell. A penalty imposed on Shell was cut by half, from $60 million to $30 million.

Lobbying: Shell is said to have dictated what Tony Blair said to Colonel Gaddafi in order to seal a £325million deal with Libya

Tony Blair used a letter written by Shell to lobby Colonel Gaddafi on its behalf to clinch an oil deal, documents reveal.

A letter he wrote to the Libyan leader bears a remarkable similarity to a briefing note Royal Dutch Shell sent him weeks earlier promoting a £325million deal.

The correspondence, obtained under a Freedom of Information request, reveals just how much Mr Blair was influenced by the oil company when he was Prime Minister.

It also puts into question the Government's motives for releasing Lockerbie bomber Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi.

It was a coup that gave birth to BP. The corporation was formerly known as the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, and was renamed British Petroleum after it inspired the CIA coup against elected president Dr. Mossadeq in 1953, because he had dared to nationalise Iran's oil.

Read more: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Persian_Oil_Company

 

[Karl]

I wish this guy would wake up in a Taliban stronghold and spout this Marxist tripe or in the Bible Belt of the USA. I have no problem with the atheists if they mind their own business, but why do they always impose State worshipping on everyone. They say there is no God, but you must submit to more rules and regulations that are continually increasing and oppressing everyone more than any religion.
In the science fiction satire "Star trek" all the humans and aliens believe in God except The Borg Collective. I think there is an important message in this.

 

[Abz2000]

I think this guy's an Aldous Huxley fan, i can envision the plot from "brave new world" in his agenda.


Natural reproduction has been done away with and children are created, 'decanted', and raised in 'hatcheries and conditioning centres'.


The production of such specialised children bolsters the efficiency and harmony of society, since these people are deliberately limited in their cognitive and physical abilities. It also restricts the scope of their ambitions and the complexity of their desires, thus rendering them easier to control.*


Recreational sex*is an integral part of society. According to the World State, sex is a social activity, rather than a means of reproduction and, as part of the conditioning process, is encouraged from early childhood.

The few women who can reproduce are conditioned to use birth control, even wearing a 'Malthusian*belt', a*cartridge belt*holding 'the regulation supply of*contraceptives' and worn as a fashion accessory.

The maxim 'everyone belongs to everyone else' is repeated often, and the idea of a 'family' is considered pornographic.

Sexual competition and emotional, romantic relationships are rendered obsolete because they are no longer needed. Marriage, natural birth, parenthood, and pregnancy are considered too obscene to be mentioned in casual conversation.
Thus, society has developed a totally different idea of relationships, lifestyle and reproductive comprehension.

Spending time alone is considered an outrageous waste of time and money, and wanting to be an individual is horrifying. Conditioning trains people to consume and never to enjoy being alone, so by spending an afternoon not playing 'Obstacle Golf', or not in bed with a friend, one is forfeiting acceptance.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek5vse2_Aq0

 

[Karl]

The best way of course for parents to avoid being messed with by Marxist busybodies like Dawkins (who have absolutely no respect for parental sovereignty at all) is to not even register their offspring with the state to begin with. Any parent who isn't a godless state worshipping collectivist would have to be a complete fool to register their offspring in any Western country these days.

 

[sister herb]

As he seems to be worry about parent´s influence to their children in cause of health matters (like blood transfusions or vaccinations), he should realize that many parents in the west (he is from Ireland?) whose refuse to allow for example vaccinations don´t do it because of their religious background. It seems to be some kind of fashion in the west to refuse vaccinations and "find" conspiracy theories behind the vaccination campaings.

As they are mostly catholics in Ireland - does catholic church has negative opinion against the blood transfusions and health education?

 

[M.I.A.]

That's probably taking it a bit too far.

The importance of education and the right to it... For all..
Is of up most importance.

It is actually a means by which people can improve society.

It may not reflect our character or charisma or role in the world but it is vitally important.

The benefits outweigh the disadvantages by far.

If any developing country neglects education, then its shooting itself in the not yet grown foot...

Bad planning.

But with a growing underclass in many places I feel people may mirror your sentiment.

I do not.

We should all lay the foundations for tomorrow the best we can..

I know that's why a lot of parents sacrifice.



vaccines are trending at the moment.

I'm against it because they contain pork derivatives for most.

I found a fatwa online, dated about 11 years ago.

Scholarly fatwa says its A OK...

It goes on to say all gelatine is A OK.

Left me a bit dubious.

11 years and no veg/halal/fish alternative

 

[ardianto]

As he seems to be worry about parent´s influence to their children in cause of health matters (like blood transfusions or vaccinations), he should realize that many parents in the west (he is from Ireland?) whose refuse to allow for example vaccinations don´t do it because of their religious background. It seems to be some kind of fashion in the west to refuse vaccinations and "find" conspiracy theories behind the vaccination campaings.
As they are mostly catholics in Ireland - does catholic church has negative opinion against the blood transfusions and health education?

Few ultra conservative Catholic maybe anti blood transfusion and modern health education. But their number is very few compared with open minded Catholic. My father and my wife got blood transfusion when they were hospitalized in Catholic hospital. Catholic have many hospitals with modern technology. They also have medical faculties in their Catholic universities.

I think those atheists just tried to build negative image on religious people. Indeed, I notice atheist often try to build image on religious people as anti science, anti technology.

 

[ardianto]

Greetings and peace be with you Junon;



I wonder if he has called on schools asking them to protect children from being indoctrinated by their athiest parents?

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

Greeting and peace be with you sir.

I Think Dawkins forgot that teacher can indoctrinate students too. And how if atheist teacher indoctrinate students that God does not exist?.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

They are stupid, seriously

peace.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Speaking as an Atheist, I am a little unsure on this topic.

I do understand where he is coming from. Children are especially vulnerable to believing whatever their parents tell them to believe. Those same children, had they been exposed to the religious claims later in life and not as vulnerable kids, may be a little less apt to blindly accept them. And some of those beliefs can be dangerous. By brainwashing children into a particular belief system, we are doing a disservice to their ability to choose for themselves. That applies to anti-religion as well as religion though ofcourse, and it also applies to politics, and any other ideology.

I think the best answer is as somebody posted above, to expose children to a broad and wide number of beliefs and belief systems. I say let them grow up in whatever their parents believe, so long as they are not disallowed to see what other people believe. I say you should raise your kids in whatever religion you want, so long as you let them see what other people outside the family believe. I do find it disturbing when parents don't allow this. That's how cults operate.

 

[Zafran]

extreme form of Judiaism, a KKK member, an Islamic extremists, Nation of Islam member, BNP and of course A Nazi - are these going to be on the education checklist as well?? what happens if your child wants to be one of these guys/gals?

of course somebody has to choose to "indoctrinate" them not to. Yet people still join these groups, with or without education.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Pygoscelis;

Children are especially vulnerable to believing whatever their parents tell them to believe.

Maybe there is some truth in this up to the teenage years, after that children tend to break away gradually from their parents control. I was brought up as a Catholic and left the church when I was seventeen, the reason I left was because I was constantly being reminded of all the things I should and should not do. Temptations are often overpowering to teenagers and I chose to walk away from church teachings, but I came back in my late forties, I now believe the church was right to hold their views on sin, and I was wrong to walk away.

But religion is not just about believing, it is a way of life, they encourage marriage for life, there is a role for parents and children. Religion is very keen on building communities, where people are encouraged to help each other. We are always being asked to volunteer for some community project, and we are always being asked to donate money to various causes.

I really believe the world would be a worse place without religion.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[Pygoscelis]

Maybe there is some truth in this up to the teenage years, after that children tend to break away gradually from their parents control. I was brought up as a Catholic and left the church when I was seventeen, the reason I left was because I was constantly being reminded of all the things I should and should not do. Temptations are often overpowering to teenagers and I chose to walk away from church teachings, but I came back in my late forties, I now believe the church was right to hold their views on sin, and I was wrong to walk away.

Did you come back to the same religion? That is what I would expect 90% of the time, and I would guess that it happens because that is the religion you were familiar with. You went back to not just theism (if you ever left it), but Christianity, and not just Christianity, but the Catholic Church, yes? In less common cases you'll have some convert between religions, such as if you had become a Hindu or a Muslim. The rarest cases are those who are raised without religion who then adopt it, and do so by thinking themselves into it (and not by some traumatic event).

My point is that if you grow up outside of religion, it is much much harder to indoctrinate you into it. The same goes for many ideologies, ranging from how people view race to how they view sexual orientation to how they view politics. There is a famous quote that goes something like "Give me the boy, and I will give you the man (thinking how you want him thinking)". That is much easier than changing the man once he is a man.

 

[BeTheChange]

They fear religion & the power/influence of religion because this is the only true form of liberation.

Liberation which begins from the soul to the human body and human mind.

The mind/heart is free from all worldly enslavement and enters the spiritual realm.

They can plan all they want but Allah swa is the best of planners.

May Allah swa keep us all strong and steadfast in our precious deen. Ameen.

 

[ardianto]

My point is that if you grow up outside of religion, it is much much harder to indoctrinate you into it. The same goes for many ideologies, ranging from how people view race to how they view sexual orientation to how they view politics. There is a famous quote that goes something like "Give me the boy, and I will give you the man (thinking how you want him thinking)". That is much easier than changing the man once he is a man.

My Christian relatives teach Christianity to their children. Then 99.999% possibility their children will still be Christians although they live among Muslims. But I do not mind with it because I know they do not teach hatred toward non-Christians. So Pygo, why seem like you and other Atheist objected to religious parents who teach religion to their children?.

How about Atheist parents who teach Atheism to their children?

 

[M.I.A.]

Speaking as an Atheist, I am a little unsure on this topic.

I do understand where he is coming from. Children are especially vulnerable to believing whatever their parents tell them to believe. Those same children, had they been exposed to the religious claims later in life and not as vulnerable kids, may be a little less apt to blindly accept them. And some of those beliefs can be dangerous. By brainwashing children into a particular belief system, we are doing a disservice to their ability to choose for themselves. That applies to anti-religion as well as religion though ofcourse, and it also applies to politics, and any other ideology.

I think the best answer is as somebody posted above, to expose children to a broad and wide number of beliefs and belief systems. I say let them grow up in whatever their parents believe, so long as they are not disallowed to see what other people believe. I say you should raise your kids in whatever religion you want, so long as you let them see what other people outside the family believe. I do find it disturbing when parents don't allow this. That's how cults operate.

I'm sorry but I can't agree, you start your post as an atheist.

Is your concern literally that people believe in god? Because they have the right to.

If you label ALL religion as dangerous then you undermine a vast majority.

People who are integrated well into society for the mist part.

I for instance was brought up in a Muslim household.

I was sent to learn the Quran at an early age..daily.

But it was not until 26 that I actively pursued my religion.

...up until then I did not consider myself anywhere near serious..

Upon reflection it made little difference to me and my actions...

Seemingly.

So the question stands, you might be taught math for 16 years but it don't make anybody a mathematician.

You might get to choose who to vote for at 16...

And yet every government seems useless at times.

Drinking at 18? Atheists should point out the dangers screaming!

...I hope you understand

The agenda is flawed the argument seems absurd.

Children are like sponges, they will learn all you throw at them.

And yet we are all different in nature and character and manner.

Having the option is not a bad thing.. Even if you didn't know it existed.

I just read the second half of your post, my apolagies.

..I can still argue though! Lol

I'm open to seeing all beliefs.. But even with that I'd like to give children a closeted life.

...you might say why give them a unrealistic reflection of the world.

Well I guess that's why we all struggle for change.


How to achieve a middle ground is a learning experience.

By the way I didn't remember the Quran the first time round, only that I missed two pages when the teacher was not looking.

 

[AmericanMuslim]

He has no right to tell the schools to protect children from religion! He is not the parents of the children, so he has no legal or moral right to tell anyone what to do for their children. Religion is something that shapes us, and it keeps us safe. Without it, we could put ourselves in danger, and we would be ultimately sinning. The last thing you should do is NOT teach kids about religion. They need to know the truth from an early age about what is going to happen during life, and after life (Death and the Day of Judgement). They have a right to know! Religion is apart of life just like science, math, and history is because we are surrounded by it every day and it is what makes sense to us. It is our answer for our questions. It teaches us how to live peacefully, and safely. It IS a lifestyle. And a healthy one. He is out of line here. May Allah keep us (and our children) on the Straight Path, Ameen.