Atonement

[POBook]

Are you able to respond to #155 Ansar Al-'Adl?

Thanks,

PS -- You did...I missed it...thanks!

 

[tahir]

hey POBook, you never replied to one of my earlier posts, it was post# 121 i think. thanks

 

[POBook]

Quote:
Please allow me to ask you again: If this phrase "son of God" was a mere metaphor within Jewish usage, then why did the Jews decide to crucify Jesus for His usage of this phrase?

What of the Prophets before Jesus who were called 'son of God' ? We see an inconsistency here if you wish to say that by 'son of God' Jesus implied divinity. Other Prophets have been likewise called 'son of God', why didn't the Jews crucify them?

That's a question I would like you to answer for me. Think about this: If the earlier Scriptures in which the prophets were referred to as "sons of God" are not corrupted, and therefore represent an accurate account of things, and the Jews did not kill these prophets for going by the term "son of God", then the context in which this term was used was not blasphemous. As a follower of Jesus, I am a "son of God"--a child of God. The difference between all of how people use this term "son of God" and how Jesus used this term and implied this term, is that all other means of using this term were not used to identify people as God. The Jews hated Jesus because His use and implication of this phrase was in the sense of blasphemy--He Himself having God's nature, character, and identity.

Q

uote:
Also, can you explain the logic of creating something out of nothing?

What's illogical about it? Can you show me a logical contradiction in God's ability to create?

Can you show me a logical congruince of creation. I do not want to decide on whether it's logical or illogical. I do not want to question God's ability. I just want a logical explanation of creating something out of nothing. The logic of creating ice out of water is freezing the water. The logic of creating steam out of water is heating it to 100 degrees. All I ask you to do is give me a logical explanantion of how something can be created out of nothing.

Thanks for your post.

 

[POBook]

Hey again tahir,

Thanks for referring me back to your post #121. I'm reading through some of your questions and I feel kinda bad that I missed this:? . I apologize for taking so long. Thanks for your patience and thanks especially for referring me back there.

As soon as I have the answers, I will post them. I am going to be out of town for a couple of days and then I'll be back.

Sincerely...and thanks again for your patience !

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Ansar Al-'Adl;,

The point I'm interested in is only that other people have been called son of God in the Bible. Therefore, you can't take this as a statement of divinity

Even today we are asked to look on God as our father; Jesus taught us to pray,

Our Father who art in Heaven.

This implies every one is the son or daughter of God.

But!!

Taking the Bible as a whole, the over riding message for Christians is that Jesus is the Son of God and he existed before creation began, and he will judge the living and the dead.

Beliefs are important to the individual but it is our words and actions and how we build our relationship with God and his creation that matter more.

God bless you

Eric

 

[kososhahab]

My christian frineds and my muslims brothers!

theres this 1 forum in ezboard, that is cristcizing Islam and Christianity but the forum is mostly based on mocking Islam...

the most common evidence used is the hadiths and i donno if the hadiths are valid or not... by the way, their arguements are very stupid... i feel very disturbing not to see any reply from anyone! if u want the website , juz send me a quick reply- request!!!

the forum is by the hindus...

wassalam

 

[POBook]

Hey tahir,

I’m back. Thanks for your patience. Thanks for your willingness to dialogue and do research. I think we all want to know truth—and truth is found when you truly seek it with your heart. Keep up the good work !

Although i do not think that the Bible is entirely true anymore could you please supply some evidence or proof from the Bible that people used to rub oils on dead people to prepare them for burial? I could not find any evidence for this as i was doing my research last time.

Another example, once again relating to Jesus from Mark 14:3-9:

"And while He was in Bethany at the home of Simon the leper, and reclining at the table, there came a woman with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure nard; and she broke the vial and poured it over His head. 4 But some were indignantly remarking to one another, “Why has this perfume been wasted? 5 “For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred denarii, and the money given to the poor.” And they were scolding her. 6 But Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to Me. 7 “For the poor you always have with you, and whenever you wish, you can do them good; but you do not always have Me. 8 “She has done what she could; she has anointed My body beforehand for the burial. 9 “And truly I say to you, wherever the Gospel is preached in the whole world, that also which this woman has done shall be spoken of in memory of her.”​

There are not many examples in the Bible that share the details of peoples burials. This statement by Jesus reflects the thinking of the people in their time. Does this mean everyone was anointed with oil who had died? I don’t know. However, for Jesus to talk about having his body prepared beforehand for the burial is a reflection of the culture in the times of Jesus when peoples dead bodies were anointed or massaged with oil before being buried. I hope this helps you.

I'm kinda confused now, do Christians believe that at the end of time we will all be resurrected too? If we will all be resurrected to then will we be resurrected as a spirit or still with our human with flesh and bones?

We believe that we will not be resurrected in flesh and blood. We each have a soul-spirit that lives in a body. The body will eventually die but the soul-spirit lives for eternity—either in heaven or in hell. The people back in Jesus day did not quite understand resurrection of the dead. They thought that when people died, they ceased to exist, and that the resurrection meant they came back to life in the body. All people, when they die on this earth, are resurrected to a new life in eternity. The question is, Where are they going to spend eternity. If I may ask you, where are you going to spend eternity when you die in body form and are resurrected in spirit form?

"No more of this!" And touching his ear, He healed him. Then Jesus said to the chief priests, temple police, and the elders who had come for Him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a criminal?” (Luke 22:49-52)

I believe that Jesus intended to fight back but knew now there was no point in fighting back as most of his disciples were falling asleep when they were meant to be keeping an eye out for Jesus.

One of the things I have always learned and tried to apply when reading the Bible is to never say, “I believe…” . Many Christians use these words, “I believe…” For me, the issue is not what I believe but what the Bible says. It would be easy for me to say to you, “Yes, tahir, you might belive that Jesus intended to fight back, but I believe this was never his intention.” Someone else may add, “You guys have your beliefs and they are both wrong. I believe Jesus was trying to suction up to the Pharisees so they would not arrest him.” Everybody can say what they believe but what they say they believe, the Bible may not actually say. I hope this makes sense to you.

“I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.” John 20:17

Yes this is a Trinity issue. What Jesus was trying to help Mary understand is the relationship that she now had to God—her Father. He was no longer God “out there”; He was now a Father in her presence. Look at the next verse: “Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them what He had said to her” (John 20:18). Mary identifies Jesus as God Himself—the Lord—not “a lord” or “some lord,” but “the Lord.” Throughout His ministry on this earth, Mary was a devout follower of Jesus. Mary was very connected to Jesus. Jesus was now helping her to understand her connection to God through Him.

Does this mean that every Christian is the 'Son of God'? How can a 'God' have another 'God'?

No, not every Christian is the Son of God. Only Jesus is the Son of God. Christians are considered as children of God. If a Christian said he or she was the Son of God, that would be blasphemous because it would be saying, “I am God.” As the “Son of God”, God was not the Father of Jesus in the sense of a human Father. God did not have sex with Mary and impregnate her. When Jesus and other people used this term, they were acknowledging Jesus as God in the flesh. As a Christian, I believe in God’s ability and power to do what is beyond my understanding; what is beyond logic. Us people do not have the ability to understand and reason how God can be Father and Son at the same time, without being separate. If we could, we would confine God; we would define God---and He would no longer be God. God can do what is beyond our understanding

Sorry i keep going back to the topic of trinity, i'm not very clear on it

No problem. The Trinity is a major issue for many people. What I want people to understand most concerning the Trinity, is that Christians are not polytheistic—we do not believe in three gods. We believe in one God who is all powerful and all knowing and can be in all places at all times. We believe that God loved us soooo much that He came to this earth in the form of a man, was crucified on the cross, and resurrected Himself from the dead, gaining all authority to forgive sin—He fulfilled his mercy and justice at the same time—for our benefit and for His honor and glory.

Sincerely and I look forward to your reply,