Attack on Qur'an

[snakelegs]

i don't think an ex-anything is a credible source of information.
there are those who leave a religion and waste their time trying to prove it wrong.
there are those who love their religion and waste their time arguing with the first group.
both are big wastes of time the way i see it.
if you are interested in islam, i think you should study islam. that will keep you busy enough!

 

[fbaltazar]

There are many Islamic sites out there for those interested in learning,as well as great lectureres/intellectuals like Dr.Ahmed deedat..

from experience I find that people who are very insecure about their faith or life style to busy themselves with what others are doing.. christians in general you'll forgive me for saying tend to be the most insecure.. something about the 'trinity,man/God/mother of God' makes them want to conjure up every trick in the book to impugn Islam and Muslims,sadly most don't even read their own book, so when you quote them a biblical passage they are stunned.. In fact many of the respectful catholics/christians who decided to go about it the right way, studied islam and the Quran to be able to attack better.. Dr. Gary miller was one such preacher, he ended up becoming a Muslim and wrote the Amazing Quran..
you may check it out here
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/amazingq.htm

let me ask you a hypothetical..
assuming you are married and, I really hated your wife, decided to spread rumors about her in the most vicious and vile manner, would you stop and reply to every attack I make and there is no end to what I can make up about her looks, chastity, relationships, which would only give me more leverage or would you simply shrug your shoulder and state,logical human beings, those that truly matter in my life and my wife don't heed stupidity and every dog that barks?

I tend to be upset with every Muslim that goes out screaming and angry at such attacks.. I believe there are many effective ways, dignified ways to blow a mean punch without resorting to more of the same.. but if you were looking for more of the same, then I assure you just like there is answering Islam, there is also answering christianity, there is answering atheism, there is answering everything.. the way I look at it, is everyone has an opinion and a keyboard.. doesn't mean you should waste your time on it...or I should rather say.. you are the best judge of how to spend your time.. everything has been addressed here and in the load Islam site which is the very first icon from your anatomical left..
best wishes


cheers!

[content removed]

How could you say Christians are insecure about their faith when Muslims are the ones who fail to defend Islam? I went to answering Christianity website and whovever made that website was foolish enough to use Biblical passages to refute Christianity. Don't they contradict themselves when using Biblical passages when they themselves admit that the Bible was corrupted? How could you use something corrupted as your evidence? I am embarrassed reading the articles in answering Christianity. They shouldn't have made a site so poorly constructed. I know there's a lot of intelligent Muslims around and I know Muslims are better than this. In fact they shouldn't have attack other religion at all for it is written, there is no compulsion in religion. It is more important to defend Islam than to attack and try to prove other religion wrong because even if we can prove all other religions wrong, does this make Islam any better if we can't refute others as well? I believe and I'm not even a Muslim yet, defending Islam intellectually is an important part of Jihad. Running away from intellectual Jihad is a failure on our religious obligation as Muslims.

Your example is, forgive me for saying this, quite ridiculous. If you are to make false comments about my wife and spread it all over, my obligation as a husband is to find the truth. Everyone becomes a suspect including my wife. After finding out the truth that the false allegations came from you, then I will confront you with full force and will probably take the matter to the court to have you punished.

If you think defending Islam intellectually is a waste of time, maybe you shouldn't be a Muslim. It is Muslims' obligation to defend Islam intellectually. In fact defending Islam intellectually is more important than martyrdom. We can kill as many unbelievers as we can by force but we can never convince them Islam is the truth. Only the way of reason we can defeat those anti-Islamic website and those who attack Islam through reasoning. Too many Muslims are leaving Islam because of these anti-Islamic websites and I blame all Islamic scholars for failing to do their duty to defend Islam intellectually.

 

[MadeenJibreel]

[content removed]

How could you say Christians are insecure about their faith when Muslims are the ones who fail to defend Islam? I went to answering Christianity website and whovever made that website was foolish enough to use Biblical passages to refute Christianity. Don't they contradict themselves when using Biblical passages when they themselves admit that the Bible was corrupted? How could you use something corrupted as your evidence? I am embarrassed reading the articles in answering Christianity. They shouldn't have made a site so poorly constructed. I know there's a lot of intelligent Muslims around and I know Muslims are better than this. In fact they shouldn't have attack other religion at all for it is written, there is no compulsion in religion. It is more important to defend Islam than to attack and try to prove other religion wrong because even if we can prove all other religions wrong, does this make Islam any better if we can't refute others as well? I believe and I'm not even a Muslim yet, defending Islam intellectually is an important part of Jihad. Running away from intellectual Jihad is a failure on our religious obligation as Muslims.

Your example is, forgive me for saying this, quite ridiculous. If you are to make false comments about my wife and spread it all over, my obligation as a husband is to find the truth. Everyone becomes a suspect including my wife. After finding out the truth that the false allegations came from you, then I will confront you with full force and will probably take the matter to the court to have you punished.

If you think defending Islam intellectually is a waste of time, maybe you shouldn't be a Muslim. It is Muslims' obligation to defend Islam intellectually. In fact defending Islam intellectually is more important than martyrdom. We can kill as many unbelievers as we can by force but we can never convince them Islam is the truth. Only the way of reason we can defeat those anti-Islamic website and those who attack Islam through reasoning. Too many Muslims are leaving Islam because of these anti-Islamic websites and I blame all Islamic scholars for failing to do their duty to defend Islam intellectually.

ali sina is a piece of junk, with no due respect.
i read some of his claims, and he is loaded with errors, and btw, with disrespect, lies, and similar rubbish.

he's not worth of taking on.

 

[snakelegs]

you seem more interested anti-islam websites than islam.
enjoy.

 

[جوري]

actually Ali Sina was challenged by many Muslims scholars and lay men alike, I visited his site, and I know how he selectively chooses the posts with a fine comb to assert his claims, but he refuses to take the debate to TV.. because he knows he won't be able to handle it.

Dr. Ahmed deedat is dead May Allah receive him in paradise's high mead..It seems a little hilarious for people to challenge him and call him a coward after the fact of the matter? Dr.deedat has challenged many 'esteemed' scholars and has over 140 live lectures with people from all walks of life.. they can all be found here if you are incredibly interested...

http://cgi.ebay.com/BIGGEST-COLLECT...oryZ4280QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

All titles list as below.


1. IS THE BIBLE GOD'S WORD? This is a Debate of the Century with Rev Jimmy Swaggart which held in USA.

2. IS JESUS GOD? This is one of the great Debate with Pastor Stanley held in Stockholm.

3. IS THE BIBLE TRUE WORD'S OF GOD? With Pastor Stanley.

4. THE QURAN OR THE BIBLE WHICH IS GOD'S WORD. Another great debate with Arab Christian Anis Shorrosh.

5. SEQUEL TO THE QURAN OR THE BIBLE. This lecture held a day after debate with Anis Shorrosh with opportunity for Audience to Question about the above topic.

6. MOHAMMED IN THE BIBLE. In this lecture Mr. Deedat illustrates that Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is mentioned by name in the original Hebrew Text.

7. IS ISRAEL SETUP FOR DESTRUCTION? In this symposium the Ex-Congressman Mr. Paul Finley and Mr. Ahmed Deedat talked about Arab Israel conflict.

8. EASTER A MUSLIM VIEWPOINT. This is another very informative lecture which was delivered in Australia about Crucifixion.

9. MOHAMMED THE GREATEST. This lecture delivered in New York.

10. IS JESUS GOD? Another great open debate with Arab Christian, Dr. Anis Sharrosh.

11. DEEDAT SPEAKS ON RUSHDIE. In this lecture Ahmed Deedat says that how RUSHDIE fools the West.

12. IS JESUS GOD? Another great debate which held in Denmark with Pastor Eric Bock.

13. ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY. This is a well informative symposium by Ahmed Deedat and Dr. Gary Miller.

14. WAS CHRIST CRUCIFIED? This debate held in London with Floyed Clark.

15. DAWAH OR DESTRUCTION. This lecture held in USA.

16. IS THE BIBLE GOD’s WORD? Lecture in Denmark.

17. CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM. Lecture in Geneva, Switzerland.

18. CRUCIFIXION, FACT OR FICTION? One of the great debate with Dr. Robert Douglas.

19. AL QURAN A MIRACLE OF MIRACLES. Another great lecture.

20. JESUS MAN,MYTH OR GOD? Another informative Lecture.

21. ISLAM ANSWER TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER. It is a Lecture.

22. IS JESUS GOD? This lecture held in South Africa.

23. CHALLENGE OF THE MISSIONARIES. Another Lecture.

24. CHRIST IN ISLAM. Another Lecture.

25. FROM HINDUISM TO ISLAM. It is a Lecture.

26. QURAN AND THE COMPUTER. Another informative Lecture.

27. DEEDAT SPEAKS FREELY ON TV GENEVA. Talk.

28. PREVIEW OF DEBATE WITH ANIS SHARROSH. This lecture held in South Africa.

29. WAS CHRIST REALLY CRUCIFIED? Another great Debate with BISHOP WAKEFIELD held in CANADA.

30.MISSIONARY IN ROAD. Another Great lecture.

31. IF YOUR LABEL SHOWS YOUR INTENT WEAR IT. This is a Lecture.

32. SEQUEL TO CHRIST IN ISLAM. This is a Studio Debate.

33. WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MUHAMMED(PBUH). Contarary to popular beliefs, the BIBLE contains numerous references to Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) through logical argument. Great lecture.

34.ISLAM ANSWER TO THE POPE'S "PIOUS" PRONOUNCEMENT. Lecture.

35.ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY. This great lecture held in KARACHI, PAKISTAN.

36. JESUS BELOVED PROPHET OF ISLAM. This lecture held in USA.

37. CHRISTIAN GUEST IN MOSQUE. Ahmed Deedat entertains guests mostly of the European sector at The Mosque in Durban, South Africa.

38.CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY IN IPCI CENTER. Talk.

39. DEEDAT DEBATE WITH AMERICAN SOLDIERS. This is anothe great debate with American soldier in Gulf war.

40.MESSAGE OF QURAN. This is a Lecture.

41. JUSTICE AND EQUALITY. Lecture

42. DEEDAT TALK FREELY WITH GINA LEWIS. TV Talk.


43. JESUS CHRIST IN CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM. This is a Lecture.

44. MUHAMMED THE NATURAL SUCCESSOR OF CHRIST. Great Lecture.

45. JESUS CHRIST IN ISLAM. This lecture held in Sydney, Australia.

46. DEEDAT ENCOUNTER WITH CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY. This is a studio debate.

47. JESUS AND MUHAMMED COMPARITIVE STUDY. Another very informative lecture.

48. MESSAGE TO MUSLIM STUDENT IN UK. Lecture.

49. DEEDAT ON BBC1 PLUS EAST MEETS WEST. Talk.

50. ARAB AND ISRAEL CONFLICT OR CONCILIATION. Lecture

51. DEEDAT IN THE SPOT LIGHT. Talk on UAE TV.

52. MUHAMMED THE GREATEST. Nice Lecture held in PAKISTAN.

53. WHAT IS WISDOM? Lecture.

54. DAWAH IN THE USA. Lecture held in USA.

55. DEEDAT'S COMBAT KIT COURSE IN MOMBASA.

56. DEEDAT AT FOSIS'S 23RD ANNUAL WINTER GATHERING. Lecture.


57. A DIRE WARNING. Lecture

58. ISLAM MESSAGE OF TRUTH. Lecture in MALAYSIA.

59. CRUCIFIXION OR CRUCIFICTION. Lecture held in South Africa.

60. DEEDAT'S KENYA TOUR. Lecture at Jamia Mosque in Nairobi.

61. INTERNATIONAL DAWAH TRAINING COURSE. Lecture.

62. STUDENT MISSIONARIES AT CENTER. Great Dialogue.

63. DEEDAT KENYA COMBAT KIT. Lecture.

64. ISLAM IN AFRICA. Lecture

65. PROS & CONS OF ISRAEL. Lecture

66. NEW DECIET IN CHRISTIAN EVANGELISM. Lecture

67. MAN GOD RELATION IN ISLAM. Lecture

68. SECERET RECORDING IN IPCI. Ahmed Deedat talk about African religion and on the topic of Divorce.

69. DEEDAT ENCOUNTER WITH MORMONS MISSIONARY. Dialogue.

70. THE QURAN OR THE BIBLE WHICH IS GOD'S WORD? This lecture held in Newyork a day before the great Debate with Jimmy Swaggart.


71. PROPHET OF ISLAM AND THE BIBLE. Lecture

72. DEEDAT A MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALIST. Dialogue in IPCI with western Journalist.

73. ALQURAN MIRACLE OF MIRACLES. This lecture held in London.

74. THE BIBLE COURSE(COMBAT KIT). In this video Ahmed Deedat teches their students about the Concept of God in Quran and in Bible, How meciful and Loving God in Quran and Bible etc.

75. DAUGHTER OF ISLAM. This lecture held in Pakistan.

76. DAWAH IN UK. Lecture

77. ARAB AND ISRAEL CONFLICT OR CONCILIATION. This lecture held in Chicago, USA.

78. CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM OR ISLAM WHICH HAS SOLUTION OF THE WORLD PROBLEM. Lecture.

79. ISLAM AND OTHER RELIGION. Lecture

80. MUHAMMED THE GREATEST. Lecture in MALDIVE IRELAND.

81. CHALLENGE OF ISLAM. Lecture in England.

82. HOW NOT TO DO DAWAH.(English/Arabic) Lecture

83. MOTHER OF ALL INJUSTICE. Lecture

84. CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM AND ISLAM. Lecture

85. MIRACLE OF MIRACLES. Lecture in Malaysia

86. SHOULD RUSDIE DIE. Lecture

87. KENYA TOUR IN MEMON VILLA HALL, MOMBASA. Lecture

88. JUMMAH TALK. Lecture.

89. THE STORY OF SHAIKH AHMEDDEEDAT. Must see DOCUMENTARY.

90. ISLAM AND COMPARITIVE RELIGION. Lecture

91. DEEDAT KENYA TOUR AT MASJIDE NOOR, NAIROBI. Lecture

92. POPE AND DIALOGUE. Lecture IN UK

93. SLAM MESSAGE TO MAN KIND. Lecture IN MALAYSIA

94. PREVIEW OF DEBATE WITH JIMMY SWAGGART. Lecture IN U.A.E

95. SHORT TALKS ON MIDEAST TV-1. Lecture

96. DURBAN BUSINESS AND PROFFESSIONAL WOMEN AT IPCI. TALK

97. AN INTRODUCTION TO PRAYER. Lecture

98. BEST OF DEEDAT PART-1 SELECTIVE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. This DVD have a very selective and important Question and Answers from his collections.

99. SIGN OF JONAH. Talk in IPCI

100. DEEDAT KENYA TOUR AT SIR ALI MUSLIM CLUB, NAIROBI. Lecture

101. SHORT TALKS ON MIDEAST TV-2 Lecture

102. SHORT TALKS ON MIDEAST TV-3 Lecture

103. CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES IN THE WORLD Lecture in Qatar

104. COMBAT KIT COURSE. Course in IPCI

105. SHOULD RUSHDIE DIE?JUDEO CHRISTIAN VERDICT. LECTURE

106. SABC TV TALK: ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY. Tv talk.

107. QURAN AND THE JEW.(English/Arabic). Lecture in Qatar

108. CHRIST IN ISLAM.(English/Arabic) Lecture in Qatar

109. KUWAT SERIES-1 English/Arabic. Lecture

110. KUWAT SERIES-2 (IMPORTANCE OF THE QURAN AND EXPERIENCE IN DAWAH)English/Arabic. Lecture

111. KUWAT SERIES-3 English/Arabic. Lecture

112. KUWAT SERIES-4 English/Arabic. Lecture

113. KUWAT SERIES-5 English/Arabic. Lecture

114. BEST OF DEEDAT PART-2 SELECTIVE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. This DVD have a very selective and important Question and Answers from his collections.

No. 115
MY FATHER SHAIKH AHMED DEEDAT A MOVING ACCOUNT BY SON YOUSUF DEEDAT (DVD) Yousef Deedat, the son who used to accompany his late father all over the world talks about how he became a fan of his dad. What changed his life and what he is to us. Plus Bonus Video: The Funderal of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat .


No. 116
HOW AN AMERICAN MARXIST COMES TO ISLAM?(DVD). Talk by AHMED DEEDAT with American who revert to ISLAM.

No. 117
DEEDAT SPEAKS TO JEHOVA WITNESS.(DVD). Talk by AHMED DEEDAT in IPCI OFFICE.


No. 118
DEEDAT SPEAKS ON PAKISTAN TELEVISION.(DVD). Talk by AHMED DEEDAT on PTV Channel.

No. 119
LAST CHALLENGE AND THE BEST CALL. (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT.

No. 120
MUHAMMED THE GREATEST. (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT held in South Africa.

No. 121
THERE IS A SIDDIQUE IN YOUR LIFE. (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT.


No. 122
WHY DAWAH? (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT.

No. 123
MUHAMMED THE NATURAL SUCCESSOR TO JESUS CHRIST. (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT held in South Africa.

No. 124
WHY COMPARITIVE RELIGION STUDY? (DVD). Lecture by AHMED DEEDAT.


Thus I fail to see why the little bug Ali sina didn't accept the challenge? Perhaps the anonymity affords him some refuge from being publically humiliated? As you can see Dr. Deedat has challenged everyone from swaggart to Anis Shorrosh.. Sina is a cyber troll not unlike many we receive on this forum frequently---

The rest of your assertions are well just a reflection on your person. There is nothing I can do about your psychology-- I'd personally be well acquainted with the person I espoused, so that when they are falsly attacked, I can be their champion, protector and friend, not another malicious accuser!


cheers!

 

[fbaltazar]

oh please... that is the poor man's excuse... I just saw the little devil who wrote satanic verses become knighted as if to flash it in all our faces ' and what are you going to do about it?'

There is one reason and one reason alone, he won't accept a live debate.. if he really feared for his life, he can dress like a nazerene monk and support his claims.

He is just a moron who if debated publically, will find himself in a state of mental numbness and die from shock... I know at least two persons, one is a dear brother who has written two books in process of being published who have answered him on his site and he (sina) refused to publish his rebuttal...

He deliberately chooses 'reactive' muslims or ones who are quasi learned but not in a level to carry out a debate in Islamic jurisprudence with any dexterity to assert his moot points of look here see, crazy Muslims or under-educated Muslims, or driven by this horrible religion through indoctrination and not free will--- that is the actual reason he doesn't want to go in public... because those who will come to the challenge I promise you, are the sort he censors on his stupefying site... he is an idiot who caters to idiots...

I have only visted to see if he published my br's reply... which he didn't!... I refuse to give him leverage hence forth by frequenting his cesspool...


It is a child that blathers and a MAN THAT SPEAKS HIS MIND... if he had something of substance to say, I assure you, he'd have carried himself like a man not like a coward which is exactly what he is!

Ali Sina's refusal to have a live debate is for fear of any retribution from militant Muslims to endanger himself and his family. The man has received numerous death threats as it is, therefore, let's give him the benefit of doubt that he is really in fear of such dangerous encounter. Claiming that he really ignored posting refutations from Muslims, this can easily be solved by posting the same conversation in answering faithfreedom websites, thus discrediting Ali Sina more appropriately. The problem is, I really want to see more of this refutations published in those websites which defend the truth in Islam, but somehow, articles concerning these refutations are basically missing. Anti-Islam websites have new articles to discredit Islam almost every second while Muslim websites designed to answer and refute those anti-Islam websites have basically none. What have all islamic scholars been doing all this time? It is their job to write articles to strengthen the faith in each and every Muslims from their experience and from their wisdom.

I'm sorry to hear that Ahmed Deedat is dead, but at least he finally knows the absolute truth now as we speak, may he rest in peace. All the debates and lectures you showed me has nothing to do with Ali Sina's challenge. Ali Sina is far more dangerous and more blatant than those names mentioned in your list. He should be on top of that list. One of the Muslim brothers here said that I am more interested in anti-Islam website. What a preposterous claim. How did he know I didn't visit numerous Islamic websites before I happened to visit those anti-Islam websites? The reason why I brought it up on this forum is because I want Muslims to wake up and smell the coffee. Muslims are leaving Islam and become contributors of these anti-Islam websites because Muslims fail to refute these websites. It is all of Muslims' duty and obligation to defend Islam. Why am I the only one that can see this and I am not even Muslim just yet? Why am I the only one who thinks this is Muslims' opportunity to advance and defend Islam through reasoning?

I refuse to listen to your accusations that those who try to refute Ali Sina's challenge were "'reactive' muslims or ones who are quasi learned" or "crazy Muslims or under-educated Muslims". At least those Muslims did their best to defend Islam, unlike our so called Muslim scholars. Those Muslims are what I call courageous Muslims, never afraid to fight through reasoning. These are the Muslims who do not hesitate to advance the intellectual Jihad required upon them through their faith in Islam, and these are the Muslims I admired the most.

 

[جوري]

Ali Sina's refusal to have a live debate is for fear of any retribution from militant Muslims to endanger himself and his family. The man has received numerous death threats as it is, therefore, let's give him the benefit of doubt that he is really in fear of such dangerous encounter.

If you are going to talk to the talk, you'd better walk the walk .. he isn't the first apostate.. many go flaunting it every day.. I see them, alive and well with a long list of laurelses for their 'courageousness'

Claiming that he really ignored posting refutations from Muslims, this can easily be solved by posting the same conversation in answering faithfreedom websites, thus discrediting Ali Sina more appropriately. The problem is, I really want to see more of this refutations published in those websites which defend the truth in Islam, but somehow, articles concerning these refutations are basically missing. Anti-Islam websites have new articles to discredit Islam almost every second while Muslim websites designed to answer and refute those anti-Islam websites have basically none. What have all islamic scholars been doing all this time? It is their job to write articles to strengthen the faith in each and every Muslims from their experience and from their wisdom.

My suspicion is that you are simply mismanaging your time looking for anti-Islamic rhetoric and not alot of refutation.. Again and I truly despise repeating myself, you can find a rebuttal to any attack even on tis very site, or the mother site called LI.. surely a man of you accolades can put his query/grievance in the search option and read with the same insatiable appetency that leads him to peddle the Sina name so freely on this site.. a little while longer and I might not think your intentions so noble? :shade:

I'm sorry to hear that Ahmed Deedat is dead, but at least he finally knows the absolute truth now as we speak, may he rest in peace. All the debates and lectures you showed me has nothing to do with Ali Sina's challenge.

Dr. Deedat fulfilled his duties well, and offered a great service to his fellow man-kind. His peace shall rest with his lord insha'Allah he will be received in janat ilfirdaws... If you can't find what you are looking for in his 140 plus lectures, then I am pretty sure you won't find them anywhere else.. And again, it isn't any of our fault that sina is a coward and deals his pugilism in some dark cyber crevice out of some concocted fear of reprisal. when in fact he is just full of ****

Ali Sina is far more dangerous and more blatant than those names mentioned in your list. He should be on top of that list.

Funny I don't find him dangerous at all. I find him to be a scoundrel of ill-repute!

One of the Muslim brothers here said that I am more interested in anti-Islam website. What a preposterous claim. How did he know I didn't visit numerous Islamic websites before I happened to visit those anti-Islam websites?

He has a point, I mean you seem rather fixated..

The reason why I brought it up on this forum is because I want Muslims to wake up and smell the coffee. Muslims are leaving Islam and become contributors of these anti-Islam websites because Muslims fail to refute these websites.

Actually Islam is the fastest growing religion. 20,000 americans embrace Islam every year so say American news sources.. see here
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=65&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

people who want to leave Islam, let them do so, It isn't a great loss-- we don't need fickles in this religion!

It is all of Muslims' duty and obligation to defend Islam. Why am I the only one that can see this and I am not even Muslim just yet? Why am I the only one who thinks this is Muslims' opportunity to advance and defend Islam through reasoning?

what are you yapping about? you are being supererogatory, see above replies and take something to quell your anxiety!

I refuse to listen to your accusations that those who try to refute Ali Sina's challenge were "'reactive' muslims or ones who are quasi learned" or "crazy Muslims or under-educated Muslims".

Then why do you continue to write here in such a hysterical manner?

At least those Muslims did their best to defend Islam, unlike our so called Muslim scholars. Those Muslims are what I call courageous Muslims, never afraid to fight through reasoning.

People whose writing is allowed on sina's site aren't scholars. Again actual scholars who have contributed fighting his faulty claims had their rebuttals removed!

These are the Muslims who do not hesitate to advance the intellectual Jihad required upon them through their faith in Islam, and these are the Muslims I admired the most.

I am just beside myself with your high-spirited merriment..


are we done here?


cheers!

 

[fbaltazar]

If you are going to talk to the talk, you'd better walk the walk .. he isn't the first apostate.. many go flaunting it every day.. I see them, alive and well with a long list of laurelses for their 'courageousness'




My suspicion is that you are simply mismanaging your time looking for anti-Islamic rhetoric and not alot of refutation.. Again and I truly despise repeating myself, you can find a rebuttal to any attack even on tis very site, or the mother site called LI.. surely a man of you accolades can put his query/grievance in the search option and read with the same insatiable appetency that leads him to peddle the Sina name so freely on this site.. a little while longer and I might not think your intentions so noble? :shade:


Dr. Deedat fulfilled his duties well, and offered a great service to his fellow man-kind. His peace shall rest with his lord insha'Allah he will be received in janat ilfirdaws... If you can't find what you are looking for in his 140 plus lectures, then I am pretty sure you won't find them anywhere else.. And again, it isn't any of our fault that sina is a coward and deals his pugilism in some dark cyber crevice out of some concocted fear of reprisal. when in fact he is just full of ****



Funny I don't find him dangerous at all. I find him to be a scoundrel of ill-repute!


He has a point, I mean you seem rather fixated..


Actually Islam is the fastest growing religion. 20,000 americans embrace Islam every year so say American news sources.. see here
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=65&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

people who want to leave Islam, let them do so, It isn't a great loss-- we don't need fickles in this religion!




what are you yapping about? you are being supererogatory, see above replies and take something to quell your anxiety!


Then why do you continue to write here in such a hysterical manner?

People whose writing is allowed on sina's site aren't scholars. Again actual scholars who have contributed fighting his faulty claims had their rebuttals removed!



I am just beside myself with your high-spirited merriment..


are we done here?


cheers!

Apostasy is punishable by death, let alone calling Muhammad (PBUH) a pedophile and a terrosirst. If these actions are not dangerous to you, I don't know where you got your term dangerous from. I am just contemplating to be a Muslim and I feel like doing something about this Sina person, how much more those devoted Muslims who are offended grievously by this man's work?

I have let everyone know what my intention is; to find the religion in which I have no doubt is the truth. It is my right to investigate this truth from every sides' viewpoint whether from Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and even from those anti-Islam websites. Of all these school of thoughts, I favored Islam the most because of its practicality and simplicity in explaining its basic tenets, until I visted these anti-Islam websites which have given me more questions than answers about Islam, and in hope that I will find Muslims that can refute those who gave me doubts, I was disappointed to know that Muslims were telling me not to visit those sites instead. In fact, my post was modified here deleting the name of those anti-Islamic sites I mentioned. Why are we afraid to post those anti-Islamic websites here? How do our scholars supposed to refute them if they don't know they exist?

Ali Sina calls Muhammad (PBUH) a terrorist and a pedophile. Show me where Dr. Deedat refute this allegations and I will believe you that Dr. Deedat fulfilled his duties well.

Calling Islam's prophet a terrorist and a pedophile for all the world to see without Muslims defending this matter intellectually is the most dangerous threat to Islam. The world has come to look at Muslims faith as degenerative not only because of the wrong interpretations of the Qur'an by Muslims but also the failure of our scholars to shut these anti-islamic websites up for good.

If you don't seem to get fixiated on false accusations against the prophet, by all means be as comfortable as you can.

We are losing Muslims more than necessary. The worst thing, these Muslims are intellectuals who become crusaders against Islam. We do have a lot of non-Muslims who embraced Islam as their religion but their contribution to advance the intellectual Jihad is almost zero compared to those who left Islam. We need more of these converts to publish their wisdom and thoughts in order for others who are interested in Islam to read and use to strengthen one's faith. We need them to make a sound that they do exist.

It is insulting to call my words yapping. I am not a dog.
Is it right to call my words hysterical just because you don't like how it sounds?

There are scholars whose debates were published open for the public to see, but unfortunately they are no match against the ex-Muslim. And like what I said, If the anti-Islam website fails to post the debates, just post the debate somewhere else. By the way, who are you to discredit their reputations as scholars anyway? Are you a scholar yourself?

By the way, this conversation has everything to do with the original thread which says " Attack on the Quran". The anti-Islam websites I mentioned do more harm than this.

 

[aamirsaab]

Look the bottom line is this:
If non-muslims are really interested in Islam, and I do mean really interested, they will seek advice and knowledge from a muslim. Those that sit on anti-islamic forums days on end spouting their ignorant rhetoric based on opinion and quasi-facts (i.e. they take an ayat of the Quran and then put their stupid spin on it) are both simultaneously disgusting and foolish - I have no intention of ever speaking to those kinds of people and avoid them at all costs, including in real life.

Don't think though, that I haven't tried to fight back - I have and my latest debate online showed some jack-ass up completely with the 11 or so ayat he provided himself. It was so bad so that he left the discussion board....only to come back after realising I too left. The only reason I left was because the sheer amount of idiots on the discussion board. Seriously, these anti-islamics cannot comprehend the Queen's English, let alone the translation of the Quran. So instead of wasting my time ''debating'' with these morons I decided to get on with my real life.

Since then, I've done da'wah on several occasions over chicken wings.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Asalamu alikum brother Michael,

Please give me the site link where you debate this Christian lady.

I am waiting for you.

Thank you

yeah, im not even going to try refute that until this question is answered

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

 

[جوري]

Apostasy is punishable by death, let alone calling Muhammad (PBUH) a pedophile and a terrosirst. If these actions are not dangerous to you, I don't know where you got your term dangerous from. I am just contemplating to be a Muslim and I feel like doing something about this Sina person, how much more those devoted Muslims who are offended grievously by this man's work?

I have let everyone know what my intention is; to find the religion in which I have no doubt is the truth. It is my right to investigate this truth from every sides' viewpoint whether from Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and even from those anti-Islam websites. Of all these school of thoughts, I favored Islam the most because of its practicality and simplicity in explaining its basic tenets, until I visted these anti-Islam websites which have given me more questions than answers about Islam, and in hope that I will find Muslims that can refute those who gave me doubts, I was disappointed to know that Muslims were telling me not to visit those sites instead. In fact, my post was modified here deleting the name of those anti-Islamic sites I mentioned. Why are we afraid to post those anti-Islamic websites here? How do our scholars supposed to refute them if they don't know they exist?

Ali Sina calls Muhammad (PBUH) a terrorist and a pedophile. Show me where Dr. Deedat refute this allegations and I will believe you that Dr. Deedat fulfilled his duties well.

Calling Islam's prophet a terrorist and a pedophile for all the world to see without Muslims defending this matter intellectually is the most dangerous threat to Islam. The world has come to look at Muslims faith as degenerative not only because of the wrong interpretations of the Qur'an by Muslims but also the failure of our scholars to shut these anti-islamic websites up for good.

If you don't seem to get fixiated on false accusations against the prophet, by all means be as comfortable as you can.

We are losing Muslims more than necessary. The worst thing, these Muslims are intellectuals who become crusaders against Islam. We do have a lot of non-Muslims who embraced Islam as their religion but their contribution to advance the intellectual Jihad is almost zero compared to those who left Islam. We need more of these converts to publish their wisdom and thoughts in order for others who are interested in Islam to read and use to strengthen one's faith. We need them to make a sound that they do exist.

It is insulting to call my words yapping. I am not a dog.
Is it right to call my words hysterical just because you don't like how it sounds?

There are scholars whose debates were published open for the public to see, but unfortunately they are no match against the ex-Muslim. And like what I said, If the anti-Islam website fails to post the debates, just post the debate somewhere else. By the way, who are you to discredit their reputations as scholars anyway? Are you a scholar yourself?

By the way, this conversation has everything to do with the original thread which says " Attack on the Quran". The anti-Islam websites I mentioned do more harm than this.

I have to be honest I skimmed over your post.. and picked up the two of the usual blasé comments..
here is my own two second refutation to the alleged pedophilia charges.. don't need Dr. deedat for that

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutat...-aishah-may-allah-pleased-her.html#post834355

as for showing you where Dr. deedat refuted or didn't.. are you simply too lazy or cheap? you can pay for the DVD's or just can't sit down and listen?
This religion isn't selective it is inclusive, it isn't about refutation, it is about how you live every day life in God worship.
You may also and for the last time I am going to say this use the search button to see all topics on apostacy.
If you are an apostate in an ISLAMIC STATE<< operative word. You are a traitor to the state, that is indeed punishable by death. NO DIFFERENT THAN JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG WHO WERE CONVICTED OF TREASON AND SENTENCED TO DEATH HERE IN THE UNITED FREGGIN STATES OF AMERICA. Are we done here or you enjoying your new found fame as the town crier?


cheers!

 

[جوري]

his questions were answered, if he'd actually bother read? Sometimes it is good to know when you should read more and talk err write less.. unless he is transmigrate of 'Ali sina' who put the sin in sina 'cause he is cleva like dat' (wink wink), and as we say in Arabic 3awiz yitkani' ma3a diban wisho?

yalla hawena ya sharbat.


cheers!

 

[fbaltazar]

I have to be honest I skimmed over your post.. and picked up the two of the usual blasé comments..
here is my own two second refutation to the alleged pedophilia charges.. don't need Dr. deedat for that

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutat...-aishah-may-allah-pleased-her.html#post834355

as for showing you where Dr. deedat refuted or didn't.. are you simply too lazy or cheap? you can pay for the DVD's or just can't sit down and listen?
This religion isn't selective it is inclusive, it isn't about refutation, it is about how you live every day life in God worship.
You may also and for the last time I am going to say this use the search button to see all topics on apostacy.
If you are an apostate in an ISLAMIC STATE<< operative word. You are a traitor to the state, that is indeed punishable by death. NO DIFFERENT THAN JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG WHO WERE CONVICTED OF TREASON AND SENTENCED TO DEATH HERE IN THE UNITED FREGGIN STATES OF AMERICA. Are we done here or you enjoying your new found fame as the town crier?


cheers!

I reviewed the link you've posted, and like usual, Muslims were more inclined to question the new revert why he raised such issue concerning Aisha's age rather than helping answer the subject. I admired those who try to help the new revert by giving him the support he needed. I just don't understand why raising sensitive issues such as this could make some Muslims so defensive. Isn't questioning a big integral part of learning? How do you supposed to learn without asking?

I think we should leave Dr. Deedat alone to his peace. He didn't accept Ali Sina's challenge, in my own opinion, he didn't do what he's supposed to do be doing. Maybe he has his own reasons, but he didn't let anyone know what that reason could be as well. By the way, you seem to neglect the part I keep repeating, I am not a Muslim just yet, but contemplating to do Shahada in the near future. Beforehand I have to make sure that I know Islam fully before embracing it. Is it wrong to do that? I din't have the luxury to be born in a Muslim family like you probably have, I have to start from zero, so please for now, allow me to be selective and investigative. This is part of my human nature because God has given me a gift we call brain. Refutation is the essence of my braincells as we speak.

I don't know why you printed in gigantic letters to prove a point in apostacy as if I was disagreeing with it. Nowhere in my comments I disagree with the punishment of apostacy according to Islam, although, I'd prefer to convince apostates that they have chosen the wrong path. Your actions are just so inappropriate from a person who consider herself to be Muslim. Furthermore, you call me in the most insulting way as the town crier. You should be supporting me on my conquest to gather support from Muslims to refute those who attack Islam intellectually. Instead I can't find this support. I am so disappointed.

 

[جوري]

I have no support for you.. in fact I have answered the Question quite well and it indeed Ali sina who refuses to be challanged in an open way so he doesn't do some private editing or forgo rebuttals all together!..
As for marriage --that was the norm for then, if you can't accept that because you are ignorant of history including your own country's history that is not my problem, but yours!.. the term 'pedophilia' is a product of twentieth century psychology.. as evidenced by the fact and from link I have enclosed that the age of consent was 7 right here in the good old U.S. of A. about 150 yrs ago not 14-15 centuries ago. Let alone compared to other biblical laws which allow for a femal to be married from 0-3 yrs of age-- Furthermore.. Said Aish RA was engaged to someone before the Prophet Sala Allah 3lyhi waslam and broke her engagement to him to marry the prophet, in other words if it were so outlandish a tradition for back then, she wouldn't have been engaged prior to him all together.

I posted the sentences in big font, perhaps it might register with you? You might read or use search button for a change, so I don't have to repeat myself on every thread?!

As for apostasy, that is the law in an Islamic state.. that is what treason is. If you don't agree with it, don't live in an Islamic state (none exist today) and Don't become Muslim.. no one is holding a gun to your head to accept this religion!

And I am not buying into the people leaving this religion bit, as I have already enclosed a link for phenomenal conversions yearly here in the U.S. alone!
That is news you can take back to your buddy sina, so that you both can put an extra effort into your BS... we are simply unmoved here with the clownish charade.. in fact all you have managed to do is stifle a yawn out of us...


cheers!

 

[InToTheRain]

FBALTAZAR,

You are posting questions that have been answered already, please use the search engine.

Also you are clearly looking at the wrong sources (anti-Islamic websites) for the answers...infact I have made a thread regarding such atitude

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/53278-searching-faults.html

I think we should leave Dr. Deedat alone to his peace. He didn't accept Ali Sina's challenge, in my own opinion, he didn't do what he's supposed to do be doing.

I see you hold sinner in high esteem oh:

 

[wilberhum]

(Again)
Some how I don’t see a correlation with Ethyl and Julius Rosenberg and apostasy.
I just can’t equate selling atomic weapons secrets to an enemy that wants to destroy you and saying Mohammad wasn’t a prophet.

IMHO it is like equating a fish and a bicycle.

(More)
If you think saying Mohammad is not a prophet is aiding an enemy, then I suggest that someone driving a high polluting car is guilty of murder.

And as far as “State laws”, don’t forget the “Blood Laws” of Germany.
Just because it is a law doesn’t make it just.

 

[wilberhum]

Wilber, Why else would some one apostate unless they want to harm Islam?

Wow, what a simple question.

They no longer believe Islam is true.

The same reason I’m no longer Catholic.

 

[InToTheRain]

Wow, what a simple question.

They no longer believe Islam is true.

The same reason I’m no longer Catholic.

Not as simple as it appears if you studied Islamic History

Thing is, the Hypocrytes at the time of Mohammad(SAW) used to convert to Islam then publicly apostize to lower the Moral of the Muslims. So basically , make sure you truely believe in Islam else do not accept it. This law was required to stop the enemes of Allah(SWT) attacking the Muslims.

BUT if they have doubts in their hearts about Islam after accepting it and do not believe it but remain quite about it then there is no harm in it. We can't judge the persons Intention and what they hold in their hearts as Allah(SWT) only knows its contents.

If you keep it to yourself, then the Shariah won't punish you. If you publicize it, then you gonna get in trouble. I mean, why WOULD you publicize it unless you trying to make a statement? There is no other reason to make it publicly known, other than the fact that you want to show everyone that you disagree with Islam. So we see that you can have all the freedom you want if you keep it to yourself, but if you publicize it, then this is wrong.

Furthermore, it should be noted that when a person apostatizes, he gets three days to repent. As such, the law is one of deterrence, nothing else. Practically speaking, nobody would get killed because most people would take back their public statement of apostasy.

Look, if you have doubts, then keep them to yourself. Maybe one day Allah will remove those doubts. But once you publicize them, then that is a different matter and you affect others that way.

 

[snakelegs]

One of the Muslim brothers here said that I am more interested in anti-Islam website. What a preposterous claim. How did he know I didn't visit numerous Islamic websites before I happened to visit those anti-Islam websites?

that was me - i'm not muslim btw.
do you have any idea how much there is to learn in islam?
since this seems to be a passion of yours, why don't you study and then if you want to become a muslim, you can devote the rest of your life to combat with ali sinas?
i just don't understand why someone who is interested in islam would hang out at anti sites and get all concerned about lack of muslim refutation. :uhwhat
if you're interested in islam, study islam from muslims, instead of analyzing ex-muslims' material and grieving over lack of muslim response.

i am also confused by this

Muslims should not ignore these websites but confront it. I know we can't confront it by force but we sure can confront and defeat it with reason.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

This thread is being closed temporarily in order to sort out the posts. Please remain on topic, Islam and Apostasy has been discussed many times:

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/4738-islam-apostasy.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/miscellaneous/1557-crime-punishment-islam.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/20274-true-insulting-prophet.html