Attitudes on apostasy softening?

[Pygoscelis]

I want a pony

 

[Ahmed.]

I came across this article, which I thought was interesting.
I am highlighting the parts which particularly struck me:


(Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7355515.stm)

As always, I am interested to hear how people personally feel about this.
And how they would apply it to their personal circumstances.

How far would you go, if a close member of your family or circle of friends became an apostate?
Would you wish for them to be killed?.

No way!

Would you cut them out of your life?.

I'll first constantly set good examples for them [i.e, try and practice Islam properly myself and thus show them the beuty in Islam] inshAllah, and I'll call them towards Islam in a corteous and wise manner [inshAllah] and hopefully show them the errors of their way; once I feel I've sufficiently explained Islam to them and have thoroughly refuted the new way of life they have chosen, then if he/she doesn't revert to Islam, I may cut them off from my life, but time to time, I'll extend out a hand of goodwill in order to continue to show them the beuty of Islam and give them more dawah [call them towards salvation] inshAllah.

I'll also be continuously praying for their guidance and salvation, for as long as I/they live...

Would you threaten them?.

No

Would you pretend they were dead?.

No

Would you continue to socialise with them and talk to them?.

as answered above

Salaam

 

[barney]

I want a pony

Dont say I never give you owt Pygo.

PAevesky, Science proves that the earth is billions of years old, scripture says its roughly 6000. Scripture proves that Noah reset mankind in 4000BC, Science proves that Mankind is 150,000 years old and ten million species cant fit on a ship the size of a light cruiser.

You know I could go on, but I wont as we know our positions very well, and i phear your shark-pool.

 

[islamirama]

off topic are we? maybe this topic is well over discussed and done?

 

[barney]

Yeah, looks like it.
I think theres some evidence that attitudes in "westernised" muslims, if thats a term, have a softer attitude than in places like Iran or Saudi.

It dosnt seem to be a major shift, but theres plenty of people who have replied saying they would cut them out of their lives. Killing them seems to have slipped into a last resort event.

 

[islamirama]

Yeah, looks like it.
I think theres some evidence that attitudes in "westernised" muslims, if thats a term, have a softer attitude than in places like Iran or Saudi.

It dosnt seem to be a major shift, but theres plenty of people who have replied saying they would cut them out of their lives. Killing them seems to have slipped into a last resort event.

well views vary from one country/region to another as well as from one class to another (secular and religious). Some perceive (muslim or not) that apostasy means death soon as you are found out. When actually there's a process like any other process in a legal systm.

In islam, the person is given 3 days to reconsider their decisions, and in that time they in discussions and dialogs between islamic figures to clear any misunderstandings and after 3 days period, the state decides what to do depending on the decision of the apostate and the situation in that particular case. There's no blind apostate = kill stance as many mistakenly perceive it to be.

 

[جوري]

PAevesky, Science proves that the earth is billions of years old, scripture says its roughly 6000. Scripture proves that Noah reset mankind in 4000BC, Science proves that Mankind is 150,000 years old and ten million species cant fit on a ship the size of a light cruiser.

You know I could go on, but I wont as we know our positions very well, and i phear your shark-pool.

You are teaching me of the Quran and of Science? or you are just being exceptionally precious?

Hilarious :rollseyes

cheers

 

[truemuslim]

You are teaching me of the Quran and of Science? or you are just being exceptionally precious?

Hilarious :rollseyes

cheers

UR HILARIUS!

lool



@ topic.
I wouldnt mind if that, well i wuld, but in my heart, not show it, we can't force anyone to be a muslim or they be punished/ignored, u kno that ayah "lakum deenakum wali yadeen" u gots ur deen and i gots mine.

 

[Malaikah]

PAevesky, Science proves that the earth is billions of years old, scripture says its roughly 6000. Scripture proves that Noah reset mankind in 4000BC, Science proves that Mankind is 150,000 years old and ten million species cant fit on a ship the size of a light cruiser.

Christian scripture, not Islamic.

 

[جوري]

Christian scripture, not Islamic.

He enjoys sticking it in there to console himself every so often with that intolerably precious sort of way..

 

[barney]

I said scripture not Islamic scripture.
Having said that, the six "periods of time" debate could loop round forever. The word, as you know means Day or unquantified Period of time.
Islam has to jump through as many verbal and interprative hoops as Christianity or judism to mesh scripture with facts, so much so that a whole "science" is devoted to it.

Anyway. I think we are all (un)/happy with attitudes on Apostacy today.
Lets close the thread and go and knock ten theological bells out of each other on another thread.

 

[جوري]

PAevesky,

thanks for giving me an idea for my new Sn.. it shall be Pure-Evening-sky..
I knew you were good for something..:wink:

cheers

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Islam has to jump through as many verbal and interprative hoops as Christianity or judism to mesh scripture with facts, so much so that a whole "science" is devoted to it.

I disagree, to get back to the example of the 6 days, the qur'an states that such a day isn't equal to our days. So it isn't a loophole at all but the default position, and it's definitely not interpretive since it's stated explicitly.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I disagree, to get back to the example of the 6 days, the qur'an states that such a day isn't equal to our days. So it isn't a loophole at all but the default position, and it's definitely not interpretive since it's stated explicitly.

I am certain the christian will say the same of their book.

I'm afraid that if you are a muslim or christian (or jew for that matter re the Torah), you're too biased to see your book as compared to others objectively.

Barney here, as not belonging to any of the above is in a more objective position, so I'll take his view.

 

[barney]

It's not just the one hoop. One hoop I could cope with.If I read a passage of genisis or leviticus or Mark or the Cow or the shrouded one or virtually any of them, there are a whole playground full of hoops.

Theyve been well discussed and documented on these forums so Im not going to sart asking again about 600 wings, photosynthisis of plants or clots of blood, we all know the arguements for and against.

A perfect message to me is a clear unambigious one.
"Man was created from the union of a sperm and an egg, then does the cells divide and divide again until the being is formed and the nucleus of each contains the infomation that defines the human"
"Man was created from a gushing fluid, starting inbetewwen the ribs & the backbone"

If i had a detailed knowlage of human reproduction, I'd nutshell the process as in red.
If I was making a stab at it, millenia ago, based on what i could see and some best guesses, it would be the blue explaination.

 

[جوري]

You are frkin hilarious.. what could be even better than using even more and more ambiguous terms?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/genetics_reproduction/timeline.html

1677
Human sperm is discovered by a student of Antonij van Leeuwenhoek.

1827
The ovum (female egg) is discovered by Prussian-Estonian embryologist Dr. Karl Ernst von Baer.

Allah SWT uses language for lay and scientist alike, and to transcend centuries.. at some point when sperm is deemed a misnomer, being created from that which is emitted will still make more sense...

this isn't the barny Quran 101.. get real..

cheers

 

[barney]

You are frkin hilarious.. what could be even better than using even more and more ambiguous terms?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/genetics_reproduction/timeline.html


Allah SWT uses language for lay and scientist alike, and to transcend centuries.. at some point when sperm is deemed a misnomer, being created from that which is emitted will still make more sense...

this isn't the barny Quran 101.. get real..

cheers

Sure using the terminology that hasnt been discovered yet is impossible, but we had this conversation last year. Decribing the internet to a Byzantine and suchlike.
You can use lay terms without getting things wrong!
A gushing fluid that unites with an egg. We had eggs back in 1AH, what did the chickens lay?

Tell ya what, lets start a new thread on it...this is World affairs /apostacy and we might be drifting a bit.

 

[جوري]

Sure using the terminology that hasnt been discovered yet is impossible, but we had this conversation last year. Decribing the internet to a Byzantine and suchlike.
You can use lay terms without getting things wrong!
A gushing fluid that unites with an egg. We had eggs back in 1AH, what did the chickens lay?

Tell ya what, lets start a new thread on it...this is World affairs /apostacy and we might be drifting a bit.

I don't know what it is you do for a living barn. But try to have a looksy at the male reproductive organs, starting from embryogensis.. did you know that your testes hung right on top of your kidneys during embryogensis?.. and if you were a premature baby depending on how pre-mature, they'd still be hanging up there until some kind surgeon, brings em down and staples them for ya...kidneys don't hang up in the front!

I don't want to delve into embryology, anatomy or physiology on a forum frequented by 13 year olds (some mentally so) and I certainly don't want to waste my time giving you Arabic lessons, believe it or not I have a life.. but the following will do for now.. get read up barn.. there is nothing worst than ignorance save for little knowledge in my book!

cheers

click on website for diagrams
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=100

Title:
Does Semen Emanate From Between the Ribs and the Back? (Al-Taariq 86: 6 - 7)

Question:

Does Semen Emanate From Between the Ribs and the Back? (Al-Tariq 86: 6 - 7)

I have a rather urgent question to ask with regard to Quran and Science. A good many Muslims claim that everything in Quran is correctly in accordance with well established scientific data. In this regard, there is a web site at . While discussing this website with an atheist, he pointed out ayah 86:6-7 which has been variously translated as:

086.006

YUSUFALI: He is created from a drop emitted-

PICKTHAL: He is created from a gushing fluid

SHAKIR: He is created of water pouring forth,

086.007

YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:

PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.

SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.

His claim is that Quran here is scientifically incorrect as [he claims] that the semen [nutfah] is all manufactured only in the pelvic region and definitely not between the ribs [or the backbone]. He further claims that this ideology was prevelent among the Greeks at the time of [Quranic] revelation and that Mohammad (P) has borrowed it from them. Regardless of the "borrowed from Greeks" theory, is it possible for you to elaborate on the correct interpretation of the ayah 86:6-7 and if possible a correct [scientific] account of where the seminal liquid is produced.

A quick answer would be greatly appreciated as the atheist is hung up on this issue.

Jazakallah Khair

Your Brother in Islam



Answer:

Before presenting my understanding of the referred verses of the Qur'an, I would like to stress a few points that would not only help in understanding the verses under consideration, but may also provide some guidelines in understanding other such verses of the Qur'an, which entail references to some scientific knowledge (or knowledge that was, apparently, hidden from the first addressees of the Qur'an).

The first point to remember is that the Qur'an is not a book of scientific information. It has never claimed to be so. This is to say that there is not a single instance in the Qur'an where it has unfolded any information about the physical (or biological or embryological) world, just for the sake of giving information to its addressees, as a book of science, generally, does.
The Qur'an, at most of the places where it has referred to some physical laws (like, for example, reference to the stages in the development of an embryo inside the mother's womb), has made these references to evidence one or the other of its 'claims'. For instance, in Surah Al-Hajj 22: 5 or in Surah Al-Mu'minoon 23: 14 - 15, where the Qur'an has referred to the stages in the development of the human embryo in the mother's womb, the reason for this reference, as is quite clear from the verses themselves, is to remove any doubts that may exist in a mind regarding the possibility of the resurrection. Man, as we know, has generally expressed doubts about the life hereafter by saying that 'how can we be raised again, when our bodies would have scattered away as dust and ashes?'. The referred verses are a response to such doubts. In this response, God has brought to attention the process of development, which a fertilized egg goes through and which finally results in the creation of man. The implication in this response, obviously, is that if a being can bring man into existence through the stated process, then why would it, suddenly, become impossible (or even difficult) for the same being to bring man back to life after his death?
In the same way, a close look at such instances where the Qur'an has referred to any of the physical (or scientific) laws would show that such laws have been referred to, not to give any information about the physical laws of this world, but as evidence and signs or arguments in support of the point that the Qur'an wants to establish.

Keeping the above two points in perspective, it seems more likely that most of the physical laws referred to by the Qur'an are such, which were generally, known by the Arabs of the times of the Prophet (pbuh). We know that a supportive argument is likely to be more effective only when it is mutually known as well as agreed upon by the speaker and the addressee. Something, which is not known (at least vaguely) by the addressee or not believed or agreed by him, is less likely to be effective as a supportive argument. For instance, when I say: "Because man needs a stable social environment for his sound socio-psychological development, therefore sexual relations should be restricted to marriage", the result statement (i.e. 'therefore sexual ... marriage') is only likely to be accepted by those who agree or ascribe to the premise statement (i.e. 'Because man... development'). It is important to remember that the statements entailing any reference to physical (or scientific) facts in the Qur'an are generally, not mere 'information statements'. On the contrary, they are 'premise statements'. This fact makes it all the more likely that the physical (or scientific) facts referred to by the Qur'an in these statements were generally known and adhered to by the addressees of the Qur'an.
In view of the above explanation, it may be derived that the Qur'an has, generally, referred to only such physical (or scientific) facts, which were known as well as adhered to by the Arabs. However, it may be added that of the many beliefs (regarding the physical and/or scientific facts) ascribed to by the Arabs, the Qur'an has only used such beliefs, which were correct. The Qur'an has not used reference to any incorrect beliefs of the Arabs to support its arguments. Moreover, it is also possible that such 'evidence' or 'premise' statements of the Qur'an may be phrased in such a way that they not only serve their primary purpose of being an evidence for an argument, for the first addressees of the Qur'an, on the one hand, but may also point to a deep (and at that time unknown) scientific reality. Nevertheless, in such verses, the actual message of the Qur'an, in my opinion, shall be the real 'evidence' (which was intended for the first addressees of the Qur'an).

After having considered the above points regarding the understanding and interpretation of the Qur'anic verses, which entail references to physical (scientific, biological or embryological) facts, let us now turn to the specific verses of the Qur'an about which you have requested clarification. Al-Tariq 86: 6 -7 may be translated into simple English as:

Man should consider what it is that he has been created from. He is created from water (fluid) spurting forth, emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs.


Figure - 1

The latter part of this verse, i.e. "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the


Figure - 2

(lower) ribs", has generally been taken to imply the part of the abdomen that lies between these points. In Figure 1, this part has been roughly marked by the triangle ABC. This implication, obviously, has led the Muslims to believe that the sperm itself or its basic ingredients are made within the (roughly) marked area. I, being a novice in the related fields, asked a few of my doctor friends about the making of the male sperm and the supply of its ingredients to the ultimate place of its making. In response, among a few other things, I was told that although the male sperm is formed in the testes, yet the blood supply which, obviously, is integral to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back. I was also told by one of my doctor friends that the cells that form the sperm originate from between the ribs and the back. If this is true, then the words of the Qur'an are not scientifically incorrect, as the words "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", do not necessarily imply "emanating in its final shape" only, but can also cover "initial emanation".

However, predictable as it was, the explanation that my doctor friends provided was completely Greek to me. After giving close thought to this medical explanation, the following questions came to my mind: Why has the Qur'an referred to the biological origin of the sperm? Is it only to inform the Arabs about the basic origin of the sperm (or its blood supply or cell supply)? How does this origin support any of the Qur'anic points? What difference would it make on the message of the Qur'an, if the origin of the sperm was 'between the ribs and the back', or if it was between, for instance, 'the neck and the chest'? These questions forced me to adopt a more common sense based approach to understanding the verses. The questions that needed to be answered were:

What is the context of these verses?
What is the basic point that the Qur'an wants to convey or evidence through its reference to the place of emanation of the sperm? Is it merely some biological information or does it, in any way, relate to the overall message of the Qur'an?
Can the words "Bayen al-Sulb wa al-Taraayib" (i.e. 'between the ribs and the back') imply anything besides the (roughly) marked triangle in Figure 1? If yes, then could such usage of the phrase "Bayena shayin wa shayin" (i.e. between one thing and another) be evidenced by the Arabic language?
My findings, while searching for the answers to the above-mentioned questions are summarized below:

As far as the context of the verses is concerned, it is visibly clear that the verses under consideration are actually a response to the doubts, regarding the possibility of the promised resurrection, expressed by the rejecters. When the Prophet (pbuh) told people that after they die, they shall be raised again and shall then have to face the consequences (good as well as bad) of their deeds that they do during the life of this world, they would normally, arrogantly turn away from the sincere admonitions of the Prophet (pbuh) rejecting the whole idea of resurrection and the life hereafter as impossible. In response to the call of the Prophet (pbuh), they would normally say that how can man be brought back to life after he has become dust and bones. In the verses under consideration, besides a number of other instances[1], the Qur'an has, generally, responded to this doubt expressed by the rejecters, regarding the possibility of the Day of Judgment, in such a way that it not only answers the question regarding the possibility of resurrection but also entails an eloquent ridicule on the arrogance of the rejecters in turning away from the call of the Prophet (pbuh). In this response, the Qur'an has pointed out the fact that if it was possible for God to create man from a drop of emitted fluid, then why would it suddenly become difficult for Him to recreate man after his death? In this response of the Qur'an, man is also reminded of the fact that he did not originate from a material of high rank and grandeur but from a drop of 'despicable' fluid[2], a drop of 'semen'[3] and a drop of 'sperm'. Arrogance and haughtiness do not suit a creation that has actually originated from such lowly and despicable material.

A close look at the verse under consideration shall show that the implication of the verse under consideration is also the same as explained above. The Qur'an (Al-Tariq 86: 6 - 8) says:

Man should consider what it is that he has been created from. He is created from water (fluid) spurting forth, emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs. Indeed He [i.e. God] is fully capable of returning him [to life].

Verse 8, "Indeed He is fully capable of returning him to life" is a clear indication of the fact that the reference to man's creation is in response to his doubts about the possibility of the promised resurrection.

As far as the second question (i.e. what is the basic point that the Qur'an wants to convey or evidence through its reference to the place of emanation of the sperm? Is it merely some biological information or does it, in any way, relate to the overall message of the Qur'an?) is concerned, it seems to me that the place of emanation of the human sperm has been mentioned to remind man of the same basic reality, which has been conveyed at other places by the words 'despicable' fluid, a drop of 'semen' and a drop of 'sperm' (i.e. arrogance and haughtiness do not suit a creation that has actually originated from such lowly and despicable material). The only difference in the style of the two kinds of phrases is that in one the actual material has been mentioned (i.e. despicable fluid, sperm or semen) to remind man of his matter of origination, while in the verse under consideration it is the place (or the organ) from which this despicable fluid spurts out that man is reminded of.

The words: "emanating from a place between the back and the ribs" actually imply the male sex organ, from which the gushing fluid finally comes out. It is as if to say:

Man arrogantly rejects the call of the messenger and says that how is it possible for the dead to be raised again? Man should observe what he was created from in the first place. He was created from a fluid gushing forth, emanating from a place, which is not even worth mentioning, between the ribs and the back. And yet man behaves arrogantly and expresses doubts about the Day of Judgment. Indeed, God, Who created him the first time, is fully capable of returning him back to life, after his death.

As shown in Figure 2, if we were to join the sulb (i.e. the back) and the taraayib (i.e. the ribs), by means of an external line, it would pass through our lower abdomen, to our hips, to the testes, to the sex organ on to our groin, and then join our ribs. The line would roughly look like the red curve ABCD. Obviously, the ultimate point of emanation of the male sperm lies within the points A and D. This, in my opinion, is what the statement "Yakhrujo min bayen al-Sulb Wa al-Taraayib" (i.e. 'which emanates from a place between the back and the ribs') means. The meaning and the implication of the verse, as well as the message entailed in it, was as clear to the unlettered Arabs as it is for the scientists of the modern day. If seen in the light of this explanation, it would be clear that the verse does not refer to any scientific reality, but to an obvious physical reality. Thus, the very objection of a scientific error, in this case, is misplaced.


Figure - 3

Nevertheless, a few questions may arise in one's mind regarding the above explanation.


Figure - 4

Firstly, one may ask why has the Qur'an used the phrase 'between the back and the ribs' and, thereby, created confusion regarding the implication of the verse. The Qur'an, on the contrary, could have saved us from all confusion simply by naming the organ from which semen spurts out. Furthermore, one may also ask whether such usage of the phrase 'bayena shayin wa shayin' (i.e. 'between one thing and another') as it has been interpreted in the above explanation, is supported in the Arabic language or not.

As far as the first question is concerned, it is obvious that the Qur'an, as any decent and sober literature would do, has only avoided direct reference (in words) to the male sexual organ. Through the words that it has used, the Qur'an has made a complete euphemistic reference to the point of emanation of the sperm, while successfully avoiding naming it. Naming it would definitely have negatively affected the literary value of the Qur'an. As far as the objection that the euphemistic style of the Qur'an, in this case, has negatively affected the clarity of the message and has resulted in confusion regarding the implication of the verse is concerned, in my opinion, it seems quite out of place. The mere fact that the previous verse had referred to 'the fluid gushing forth' (semen), which is followed by the words 'which emanates from...', brings to mind the source of the 'gushing forth' of the fluid, without much difficulty. Furthermore, one should not forget that even if the male sperm was actually formed within the two stipulated points, the mention of this source of formation of the male sperm had absolutely no pertinence with the message of the Qur'an and the information would have been of absolutely no relevance to the Arabs of old - the direct addressees of the Qur'an. The mere realization of the point that the Qur'an does not refer to any such information, even if it is true, that has no relevance to its basic message, guides one to the simple physical (non-scientific and uncomplicated) interpretation of the verse under consideration.

Finally, let us take the question whether such usage of the phrase 'bayena shayin wa shayin' (i.e. 'between one thing and another') as it has been interpreted in the above explanation, is supported in the Arabic language or not. The Qur'an itself has used the same style of phrase (once again euphemistically) in an implication that, due to its close resemblance with the style of the verse under consideration, clearly supports the explanation given above.

In Al-Mumtahinah 60: 12 the Qur'an says: "And [the newly converted] Muslim women should pledge that they shall not slander a lie regarding portions between their hands and legs"[4]. It is obvious that the verse does not refer to what lies between the hands (AB) and the legs (CD) as given in Figure 3 (to the left). On the contrary, the part that is being euphemistically alluded to in the verse is what lies between the hands (A to B to C) and the feet (D to E to F) as in Figure 4 (to the right). Thus, in Al-Mumtahinah 60: 12, it is actually a euphemistic allusion to the upper and the lower organs of sexual attraction in a woman. The usage of the phrase 'bayena shayin wa shayin' in Al-Tariq 86: 7, as explained above, is quite similar to its usage in Al-Mumtahinah 60: 12.

I hope this helps.

A r c h i v e d I n f o r m a t i o n
Sexuality and Spinal Cord Injury
where we are and where we are going

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| Sexual Response | Treatment of Sexual Dysfunction | Treatment of Male Infertility | Conclusion |

Marca L. Sipski, M.D.




Maintaining a healthy sex life after spinal cord injury is an important priority to many people. Fortunately, over the past few years a large amount of research has begun to be performed in this area. Whereas in the past our knowledge about the field of spinal cord injury was exclusively focused on males and erectile function, recent work has begun to illustrate the impact of spinal cord injury on female sexuality. Moreover, recent gains in the study of infertility after spinal cord injury have allowed professionals to approach the care of newly injured patients with optimism for their potential in sexual functioning. In this article, I will provide a basic review of what is known about sexual functioning after spinal cord injury and the impact on patients.

Sexual Response
The effect of spinal cord injury on sexual response is generally discussed based upon the degree of completeness or incompleteness of the patient's injury and whether the neurologic damage affecting the individual's sacral spinal segments is an upper or lower motor neuron injury. Whether a spinal cord injury is considered complete or incomplete is determined by whether they have voluntary rectal contraction and whether they have the ability to perceive sensation around their rectum. As males have external genitalia, questionnaire studies have been utilized to determine the impact on erections and ejaculations, depending on their extent of injury. In males with complete spinal cord injuries and upper motor neuron injuries affecting their sacral segments, there is a loss of psychogenic1 erectile function in conjunction with maintenance of reflex1 erectile functions (Bors & Comarr, 1960). In those males with incomplete upper motor neuron injuries, there is still maintenance of reflex function; however, some of these males may be able to have psychogenic erectile function. For those males with lower motor neuron injuries affecting their sacral spinal segments, it has been shown that approximately 25 percent of males will have psychogenic erectile function, whereas none of these males will have reflex erectile function. With incomplete lower motor neuron injuries affecting the sacral spinal segments, over 90 percent of the population will be able to have some type of erectile function.

Previous reports have hypothesized that female sexual function would be affected similarly to male sexual function in that psychogenic and reflex lubrication will be maintained in a comparable fashion to males, depending on the level and degree of the woman's spinal cord injury. Recent laboratory-based research performed at our institution has supported the hypothesis that women with complete spinal cord injuries and upper motor neuron injuries affecting the sacral spinal segments will maintain the capacity for reflex lubrication while losing the capacity for psychogenic lubrication (Sipski and Alexander, 1995a). Moreover, in those women with incomplete injuries and upper motor neuron injuries, research indicates the preservation of the ability to perceive pinprick sensation in the T11-L2 dermatomes may be able to be used as a predictor for the ability of psychogenic lubrication. Further research to confirm the effects of spinal cord injury on women with injuries below the level of T6 is planned for the future.

Ejaculatory function is markedly decreased in men with spinal cord injuries. This is most likely due to the fact that coordinated neurologic impulses from the sympathetic, parasympathetic, and somatic nervous systems are necessary for ejaculation to occur. For instance, the rate of ejaculation in men with complete upper motor neuron injuries can be as low as 4 percent (Bors and Comarr, 1960). Furthermore, many times men with spinal cord injuries have ejaculation which goes back into the bladder instead of coming out of the penis. Treatment of this inability to ejaculate has recently been used successfully to help men who suffer from infertility.

Treatment of Sexual Dysfunction
Treatment of male sexual dysfunction has been focused at the treatment of erectile dysfunction. For those males who are able to attain reflex erections but not maintain them, the use of a silicon or rubber ring placed at the base of the penis can be helpful to maintain an erection. These rings may be used for up to 30 minutes, but should not be used on a longer basis due to the risk of insufficient blood flow to the penis causing ischemia and subsequent complications. If a male is not able to have an erection, a vacuum suction device may possibly be used effectively to produce the erection, followed by the placement of a similar ring. Again, this device should not be used for more than 30 minutes due to the risk of ischemia. Recently, FDA approval has been obtained to allow for self-administered injections of prostaglandin E1 into the penis. This is followed by an erection which occurs in approximately 5 minutes. Potential complications from prostaglandin include the development of priapism, a condition whereby an erection will not go down; therefore, emergency instructions must be available to the patient, and a system for appropriate treatment for priapism must be in place. Intraurethral insertion of medication is now also on the horizon as another mechanism to treat erectile dysfunction.

Other male sexual dysfunctions such as inability to have an orgasm, decreased sexual desire, and premature ejaculation have not been well-studied in the male population. Questionnaire studies have revealed that approximately 50 percent of males with spinal cord injuries can have orgasms and that the ability to have orgasms is not related to the degree of spinal cord injury. Furthermore, it has been documented that both sexual satisfaction and frequency of sexual activity decrease after spinal cord injury. As the focus changes from merely production of an erection to improving the quality of feeling in male sexual response, the reasons for the ability of some males to attain orgasms and others not to will need to be elucidated. Furthermore, treatment protocols for other male sexual dysfunctions will need to be developed.

Similar to male sexual functions, females with spinal cord injury have been shown to have the capacity to achieve orgasm approximately 50 percent of the time, and this has not been found to be related to the degree of injury. This has also recently been confirmed via laboratory-based research (Sipski & Alexander, 1995b). Similar to males, women with spinal cord injury have been shown to have decreased sexual satisfaction in addition to decreased frequency of sexual activities postspinal cord injury. Treatment of inability to have orgasms, decreased sexual desire, and arousal disorders has not been attempted in a standardized fashion in women after spinal cord injury. Because some women with spinal cord injury may be able to be orgasmic, the use of sex therapy techniques similar to those utilized in the nondisabled population may be an appropriate treatment in the future for women with spinal cord injuries.

Treatment of Male Infertility
As ejaculation is greatly decreased after spinal cord injury, it follows that infertility can become a problem (Sipski & Alexander, 1992). In addition to the inability to ejaculate, males with spinal cord injury have decrease in the quality and quantity of sperm which occur in the first few weeks postinjuries. Production of ejaculation via electroejaculation (electrical stimulation in the area of the prostate which produces ejaculate) followed by either

in utero insemination (insertion of the semen in the woman's uterus),
in vitro fertilization,2 or
intracytoplasmic sperm injection3
has emerged as a viable option for treatment of male infertility after spinal cord injuries. Whereas the use of these techniques has been able to produce pregnancies in the partners of men with spinal cord injuries, these techniques must be performed in a clinic setting and can be somewhat costly. An alternative method to remediate male infertility has been the use of electrovibration applied to the penis. Due to the risk of autonomic dysreflexia,4 this technique is initially performed in a clinic setting, but may also be performed at home, and has been done so in Europe and other countries around the world. Electrovibration, similar to electroejaculation, is coupled with artificial insemination of the female.

Women with spinal cord injuries suffer from temporary loss of their menstrual periods after their injuries. After this, there is generally resumption of periods, which most times return similar to their previous fashion. Menstrual pain is still present after spinal cord injury and there is generally not a decrease in the ability of a woman with a spinal cord injury to conceive. For this reason, the need to use birth control must be emphasized with women who have spinal cord injuries.

For those women who become pregnant after spinal cord injury, it is important that their gynecologist is aware of the potential complications associated with pregnancy and spinal cord injuries. These can include anemia, problems with transfers due to weight gain, urinary tract infections, pressure sores, and, most significantly, autonomic dysreflexia, which frequently occurs during labor in women with injuries above the level of T6. Unfortunately, confusion of autonomic dysreflexia with preeclampsia5 still occurs and the gynecologist who works with a woman with spinal cord injury must be able to differentiate between these two conditions in order to properly treat dysreflexia in the woman with spinal cord injury. Some studies have shown an increased risk of caesarean section in women with spinal cord injuries; however, more recent works have not shown this increased incidence.

Conclusion
Sexual activity and the ability to remain a sexual being persists in both males and females after spinal cord injuries. As such, it is important to provide the patient with information about how their sexual response and sexual functioning can be affected after spinal cord injuries and for healthcare professionals to know where to refer patients who are in need of further information. In our rehabilitation hospital, this information is supplemented by the presentation of our patient education video, "Sexuality Reborn" (Alexander & Sipski, 1993). The video includes various couples speaking about their sexual functioning after spinal cord injury and demonstrating various sexual techniques. Building upon these two instructional presentations, the patient may also be referred to a sexuality clinic for further information about their sexual potential or remediation of problems which may occur. It is important that in this time of change in the healthcare system, the need to maintain healthy sexuality in persons with spinal cord injury not be ignored. Recent advances in our understanding of this area can be utilized to educate and counsel patients and optimize their level of sexual health.


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References
1. Alexander, C.J., & Sipski, M.L. (Co-Producers). (1993). Sexuality Reborn: Sexuality Following Spinal Cord Injury. Videotape. Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation, West Orange, NJ.
2. Bors, E., & Comarr, A.E. (1960). Neurological disturbances of sexual function with special reference to 529 patients with spinal cord injury. Urology Survey, 110, 191-221.
3. Sipski, M.L., Alexander, C.J. (1992). Sexual function and dysfunction after spinal cord injury. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Clinics of North America (pp. 811-828). Philadelphia: WB Saunders Company.
4. Sipski, M.L., Alexander, C.J., & Rosen, R.C. (1995a). Physiological parameters associated with psychogenic sexual arousal in women with complete spinal cord injuries. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 76, 811-818.
5. Sipski, M.L., Alexander, C.J., & Rosen, R.C. (1995b). Orgasm in women with spinal cord injuries: A laboratory-based assessment. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 76, 1097-102.
6. Sipski, M.L., Alexander, C.J., & Rosen, R.C. (1996) Physiologic parameters associated with the performance of a distracting task and genital self-stimulation in women with complete spinal cord injuries. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 77, 419-424.

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Notes
1. In the able-bodied male there are two pathways for erection, both of which result in increased engorgement of blood in the penis. With a psychogenic erection, the person is aroused in his brain by seeing something or hearing something. With a reflex erection, the person is aroused by touching in the genital region/area.
2. With in vitro fertilization, the male's sperm and the female's egg are put together outside of the woman's body. After the sperm fertilize the eggs the embryos are placed into the women's uterus.
3. With intracytoplasmic sperm injection, an individual sperm is used to fertilize an individual egg outside of the woman's body. The embryo is then placed in the woman's uterus.
4. Autonomic dysreflexia is an abnormal reflex which occurs in people with spinal cord injuries at the level of T6 and above. A noxius stimulus such as bladder distention causes a chain of reflexes which can lead to dangerously elevated blood pressure, sweating, headache, and other symptoms. The condition is treated by removing the offending stimulus and giving the patient medication.
5. Preeclampsia is a medical condition which results in hypertension and can result in seizures which can occur during pregnancy.
aging with a spinal cord injury


| Contents Spring 1997 | American Rehabilitation Home | Department of ED Home |

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/AmericanRehab/spring97/sp9707.html


if you wanna go medicine 1 on 1 it would only be my pleasure!
here is a sagittal view of male reproductive organs!
http://www.wfurology.org/images/male_sagittal_view.jpg

 

[barney]

Thanks for the post. I , as i'm sure your aware, have read that and similar many times.
I know its the standard explaination by scholars, (modern at least) for the surah.

You will not be stunned into amazement to hear that i disagree with it, on the grounds that God would have no reason, in transmitting a clear message and clear guidance to describe the location of the testes in the embryonic stage rather than as a male of reproductive age.
If Fetuses were capable of creating seman then it would still not make any sense!

Aye, lets take this elsewhere, my chicken korma is going to be barfed up.

 

[جوري]

Thanks for the post. I , as i'm sure your aware, have read that and similar many times.
I know its the standard explaination by scholars, (modern at least) for the surah.

I am not a scholar but I am a scientist who also happens to speak Arabic. I think the way it is described is vivid without being graphic and IS accurate!

You will not be stunned into amazement to hear that i disagree with it, on the grounds that God would have no reason, in transmitting a clear message and clear guidance to describe the location of the testes in the embryonic stage rather than as a male of reproductive age.

Why is that? and why single out embryology? I'd wonder why he wouldn't do the same for other sciences mentioned in the Quran, Geology, the physio of high altitude hypoxia, death of nebulas.. what would be the point? The Quran is meant as a reminder for man kind to reflect on the world around him written in a transcendent and very poetic language, not to be used John's Hopkins pre-clinical curriculum but as guidance and comfort for man's spiritual life!

If Fetuses were capable of creating seman then it would still not make any sense!

I have no idea what that means?


cheers