ban on men in lingerie shops

[GuestFellow]

Yes that is very good, if the demand is there I don't see why not, i.e the total population in la la land is 100 which consists of 50 males and 50 females, the number of jobs available in la la land is 100, so there is more than enough jobs to go around for all the men, there is no worry of them not being able to get married because they can't find a job, they all get married because they can all find jobs and they have kids and produce a wonderful generation
and the women can fill in the extra 50 jobs that exist in la la land

There will always be demand for something. You will not have a day where all human beings and IB members in La La Land not drink water or eat food.

I highly doubt there will be a time where the population of both men and women will be the same. O___O

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Like what?

Oh I don't know: mechanics, builders/steeplejacks, personal body guards? Things like that. This is just an example but of course there are many other fields like these.

I don't need to be married to see things in a clearer light. BTW, do you have evidence to support what I put in bold?

What I meant by married men seeing things in a clearer light is the protective jealousy they feel for their wives. Men don't ever actually boast to women, "Oh I get to go out and spend time outside while you get to stay home all the time." inciting women to go out and about. No, men are far more protective of their wives and understand the dangers that lie outside the home. A man would hate to see another man conversing with his wife, spending time with her or making her laugh and this will be even more so intense when previously she has been protected in her home and he never had to worry about such things. A man's world is his wife, and what shatters this world is another man entering into it.

Unmarried people, as expected, don't feel such a level of jealousy because they have anyone to feel this jealousy for. Hence their views are far more immature because of their inexperience.

Let's assume we have a country. We'll call it Lala Land. 50% of the population are male, 40% is female, and the 10 percent are IB members...

So women make a significant proportion of the population. More people work, the more people the government can tax and the revenue the government gets will be used to provide more and effective social services. More people work, the more people have money to spend. The more people buy goods and services, firms will make profit, demand for goods and services will rise and more jobs will be created to meet this high demand.

1) I went to Saudi and I saw a lot of women selling things like hijabs on the streets or goods on a cart (of course there were more occupations than these). The money they made was some-what sufficient for themselves and their family and it doesn't seem to have boosted the economy a noch.

2) I don't have to imagine such a scenario, you see this in the western world and the result of it is the news worrying about how men and women prefer to stay single and chase careers instead.

 

[Salahudeen]

What do people think of segregating jobs based upon gender? i.e only women can become nurses/beauticians and other jobs that are female dominated, only men can become mechanics, and other jobs that are male dominated. And jobs that aren't dominated by either gender i.e officer/admin worker, then when the organisation is set up it has to say what gender organisation it is, if it says male it can only employ males, if it says female, it can only employ females.

And every organisation has to register with the government, and the government keeps a note of the number of organisations that are female/male and enforces a policy where it balances the number out.

 

[joyous fairy]

What do people think of segregating jobs based upon gender? i.e only women can become nurses/beauticians and other jobs that are female dominated, only men can become mechanics, and other jobs that are male dominated. And jobs that aren't dominated by either gender i.e officer/admin worker, then when the organisation is set up it has to say what gender organisation it is, if it says male it can only employ males, if it says female, it can only employ females.

And every organisation has to register with the government, and the government keeps a note of the number of organisations that are female/male and enforces a policy where it balances the number out.

Good idea but there will be problems with that, especially deciding what jobs should be for males and what for females.

People will protest!

 

['Abd-al Latif]

You guys seem to be missing the fact that NOT ALL WOMEN ARE MARRIED AND HAVE KIDS. NOT ALL WOMEN HAVE MEHRAM.

Edit: Sorry about that I was testing the font

I was talking about this. Unless I mistakenly understood you to mean that mahrams are needed for work?

 

[GuestFellow]

What I meant by married men seeing things in a clearer light is the protective jealousy they feel for their wives. Men don't ever actually boast to women, "Oh I get to go out and spend time outside while you get to stay home all the time." inciting women to go out and about. No, men are far more protective of their wives and understand the dangers that lie outside the home. A man would hate to see another man conversing with his wife's, spending time with her or making her laugh and this will be even more so intense when previously she has been protected in her home and he never had to worry about such things.

Unmarried people, as expected, don't feel such a level of jealousy because they have no one to feel this jealousy for.

You don't have to be married to experience jealously. You can have a guy who likes a girl but is walking with another guy on the street. This guy gets jealous because the girl is taken.

1) I went to Saudi and I saw women selling things like hijabs on the streets or goods on a cart. The money they made was some-what sufficient for themselves and their family and it doesn't seem to have boosted the economy a noch.

It's not about looking at individual cases. You look at the situation as a whole.

Let's assume all women in the UK decided that they are not going to work. I'm certain this will affect the economy in a negative way. In Saudi Arabia, let's assume more and more women are working. They are bringing more money to the family, allowing them to spend, which means firms make more profit, thus creating more jobs.

2) I don't have to imagine such a scenario, you see this in the western world and the result of it is the news worrying about how men and women prefer to stay single and chase careers instead.

That's not necessarily true. Some women want to get married and have children. Not all are so career orientated. Though I agree, some women would put their careers first over their family or attempt to balance both commitments.

 

[GuestFellow]

Taking care of the husband and kids is all well and good but what if the woman is not married and her parents are in perfect health? Both working and the daughter has finished her education.

Her father should work. I assume she would need permission from her dad to work.

Can somebody please answer me?

:/

 

['Abd-al Latif]

You don't have to be married to experience jealously. You can have a guy who likes a girl but is walking with another guy on the street. This guy gets jealous because the girl is taken.

Again, not necessarily. Once you build a history with another person, the feelings of protectiveness grow ever more stronger. Just 'liking' someone isn't the same as being married and having children, and then seeing another man taking notable interest in your wife, especially in the work place where people are comfortable talking to one another.

 

[joyous fairy]

I was talking about this. Unless I mistakenly understood you to mean that mahrams are needed for work?

What I meant by that is not all women have a mehram, so they dont have someone providing for them. I wasnt saying anything that needs a hadith to back up. Sorry for confusing you.

 

[GuestFellow]

Again, not necessarily. Once you build a history with another person, the feelings of protectiveness grow ever more stronger. Just 'liking' someone isn't the same as being married and having children, and then seeing another man taking notable interest in your wife, especially in the work place where people are comfortable talking to one another.

Of course the husband would be concerned. This concern does not necessarily translate to jealousy. If the wife is a good Muslim, she would not even be engaging in a casual conversation with a man. Besides, how would the husband know if his wife is talking to another guy at work?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Of course the husband would be concerned. This concern does not necessarily translate to jealousy. If the wife is a good Muslim, she would not even be engaging in a casual conversation with a man. Besides, how would the husband know if his wife is talking to another guy at work?

My dear brother, get married and we'll talk.

 

[Salahudeen]

Of course the husband would be concerned. This concern does not necessarily translate to jealousy. If the wife is a good Muslim, she would not even be engaging in a casual conversation with a man. Besides, how would the husband know if his wife is talking to another guy at work?

But her job may entail her to, but in saying that, many men work and mix with women on the job also, so the problem will all ways exist until we have single gender organisations like I suggested that would be illegal under UK law though, so we'd have to open it up somewhere where they'd allow it

 

[GuestFellow]

My dear brother, get married and we'll talk.

All you have to do is address my points. Maybe you would experience jealously, but I wouldn't. Jealously is absolutely ugly and frowned upon.

 

[Salahudeen]

All you have to do is address my points. Maybe you would experience jealously, but I wouldn't. Jealously is absolutely ugly and frowned upon.

Not in Islam brother, gheerah for a man is encouraged, there is a hadith about it where the prophet (saw) said something negative about a man with no gheerah for his women folk, I can't remember the exact words, I'll try find it for you.


“There are three at whom Allaah will not look at on the day of Resurrection: (1) the one who disobeys his parents, (2) the woman who imitates men, and (3) the duyooth (a man who has no protective jealousy towards his womenfolk).” [Saheeh Al-Jaami' As-Sagheer 3/74, hadith no. 3066]


In Sahih Bukhari, Book 62, (Chapter on Nikah), Chapter 30 it says:

CHAPTER 30: The Ghira (i.e., honour, prestige or self-respect)

[Sa'd ibn ubaada said: "If i saw a man with my wife I would strike him with the sharp edge of the sword." The prophet (SAW) said (to his companions); "Are you ashtonished by Sa'd's (Ghira) sense of honour? (By Allaah) I have a greater sense of Ghira than he has, and Allaah has still more greater sense of Ghira than I have."]

 

[CosmicPathos]

Ok we first have to get the basic definitions right.

Is getting dolled up and looking all beautiful and gorgeous and then going to work not a sign of displaying the good genes you've got? If evolution is true, men have evolved to spread their seed where they think good genes are. So when the human mind sees the good genes, things automatically start getting raunchy. Now women say that why is it always about sex. Well is there any other reason for putting the good genes on display if it is not to attract the man with best genes as well? Or is it to just look good? Well if it is to look good, that just does not make sense. Our eyes cannot see our own face, except in front of the mirror. So how does getting all dolled up going to make you feel good about yourself unless until you look in the mirror for the whole day? Or mayeb teh intentions to get dressed up were a bit more sinister, to get praises from other ppl, to make others envious, to make some jealous, and to kill the hearts of some? :S

 

['Abd-al Latif]

All you have to do is address my points. Maybe you would experience jealously, but I wouldn't. Jealously is absolutely ugly and frowned upon.

You will best understand this when you have a wife, no words I say will be more convincing than looking after your wife.

 

[GuestFellow]

But her job may entail her to, but in saying that, many men work and mix with women on the job also, so the problem will all ways exist until we have single gender organisations like I suggested that would be illegal under UK law though, so we'd have to open it up somewhere where they'd allow it

As long as the Muslim women is covered up, only talks to men about work, then that's fine. I suppose trust is another factor...

 

[GuestFellow]

You will best understand this when you have a wife, no words I say will be more convincing than looking after your wife.

No, I will not experience jealously. I know myself very well. It would be afraid for my wife and daughter if a guy was perving over them...and beat him up.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

As long as the Muslim women is covered up, only talks to men about work, then that's fine. I suppose trust is another factor...

Trust was given to Barsisa, the Jewish worshipper before Prophet Muhammed saws1 but he failed miserably, prostrating to shaytan as the last act before being executed, though he spent a lifetime of worship.

Trust was given to some of the sahaba while the women wore hijabs and the messenger was among them yet there were those odd one or two lesser known sahaba that committed fornication or adultry.

Trust was even given to Prophet Yusuf (a.s) but Allah mentions in Qur'an that "...he would have inclined to her desire..." (Qur'an 12:23), meaning the Prophet of Allah felt the intensity of the fitnah, yet it was only the guidance and protection of Allah that saved him.

Hijab is never a guarentee that fitnah won't happen, nor is lowering the gaze. It's a preventive, not a promise.

It's like putting money out in the open and hoping some people who you don't really know won't steal it.

It's why I say, get married and we'll talk.

 

[CosmicPathos]

No, I will not experience jealously. I know myself very well. It would be afraid for my wife and daughter if a guy was perving over them...and beat him up.

Do you have enough amount of testosterone bro?