Being an atheist.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,

Also, religious faith often involves the fear of god, so I'm not really sure what point you're making here.

Peace

honestly if a man doesnt fear God he fears everything else, he fears poverty/hunger/misfortune/pain/death etc etc etc !



Barney its not about how free you are, its about having the correct idea of life. heh.. cliche but the truth shall set you free

 

[barney]

honestly if a man doesnt fear God he fears everything else, he fears poverty/hunger/misfortune/pain/death etc etc etc !



Barney its not about how free you are, its about having the correct idea of life. heh.. cliche but the truth shall set you free

I agree with that wholeheartedly. The revese is equally true, that falsehood shall enslave.

Urrgh!I used the word falsehood! Who does that these days!

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ what happened to that thread of yours lol?

 

[barney]

^ what happened to that thread of yours lol?

I dunno!

i think its stuck in the mods in-tray

 

[coddles76]

Here is the lowdown on being an atheist (my opinion).

There is nothing universally common between us atheists except for this bit: a lack of belief in a god. We may share some opinions but it doesn't bind us. For example, if we look at abortion: I may be pro-life while another atheist may be pro-choice.

Imagine someone very close to you passes away, you realize, there is no one really turn to so you can only end up sulking, knowing you will never see them again. It can be very lonely being an atheist. There is virtually no hope and knowing that know one is really behind you to get through the bad times.

Here's a bummer:No afterlife. Imagine this, because we think there is no god, that means that we will never see the people we truly love, our family and friends. When we die, that's it. Again, it's very sad and depressing.

There is no special meaning to life except to have kids. We are on a lonely planet along with the seven planets in our solar system that revolve around our sun, just one star among the 200+ billion stars in just our galaxy, just one galaxy amongst hundreds of billions of galaxies in our visible universe.

How about all the creation everywhere, the lush trees, the vast oceans, beautiful skies, etc. As irrational as it sounds, atheists (like myself) would say that none of this actually needed creator.

So if anyone is unsure whether to convert or not to atheism, consider that things become lonelier.

If you have any questions about being an atheist, just ask.

No matter how impressive and attractive the atheist, materialist schools of thought may be, and no matter how many ideas and theories there may be, individuals and societies can never do without the true religion, they can never answer the needs of body and soul. The further the individual sinks into those ways, the more certain it becomes that he cannot find security or quench his thirst, and that there is no way out except through the true religion.
Ernest Renan says: “It is possible that everything we love could disappear and that rational thinking, science and industry could cease to exist, but it is impossible that religion could be eliminated. Rather it will remain as proof that materialistic thought which wants to restrict man to the narrow path of the base life of this world is false.”

If man is far away from his Lord, then according to his level of knowledge and understanding he will realize the extent of his ignorance of his Lord and His attributes, and his ignorance of his own self and what is good for him or bad for him, what leads to bliss and what leads to doom, and his ignorance of such basic matters as astronomy, mathematics and the like. At this point the wise man will move from the state of arrogance and pride to humility and submission, and will realize that behind all this knowledge is the All-Knowing, All-Wise, and that behind nature there is an almighty Creator. This truth compels the objective seeker to believe in the unseen and acknowledge the true religion, and to respond to the call of human nature and innate instinct. If a person fails to do that he is going against his innate nature and sinking to the level of the animals.
Thus we may conclude that following the true religion – that which is based on belief in Allaah alone (Tawheed) and worshipping Him in the way that He has prescribed – is an essential element of life if man is to be a true slave to the Lord of the Worlds, and to attain happiness and be free of tiredness and exhaustion in this world and in the Hereafter. It is essential in order to perfect man’s rational thinking. In this way alone can reason fulfil its desires; without it man cannot fulfil his higher ambitions.

 

[barney]

No matter how impressive and attractive the atheist, materialist schools of thought may be, and no matter how many ideas and theories there may be, individuals and societies can never do without the true religion, they can never answer the needs of body and soul. The further the individual sinks into those ways, the more certain it becomes that he cannot find security or quench his thirst, and that there is no way out except through the true religion.
Ernest Renan says: “It is possible that everything we love could disappear and that rational thinking, science and industry could cease to exist, but it is impossible that religion could be eliminated. Rather it will remain as proof that materialistic thought which wants to restrict man to the narrow path of the base life of this world is false.”

If man is far away from his Lord, then according to his level of knowledge and understanding he will realize the extent of his ignorance of his Lord and His attributes, and his ignorance of his own self and what is good for him or bad for him, what leads to bliss and what leads to doom, and his ignorance of such basic matters as astronomy, mathematics and the like. At this point the wise man will move from the state of arrogance and pride to humility and submission, and will realize that behind all this knowledge is the All-Knowing, All-Wise, and that behind nature there is an almighty Creator. This truth compels the objective seeker to believe in the unseen and acknowledge the true religion, and to respond to the call of human nature and innate instinct. If a person fails to do that he is going against his innate nature and sinking to the level of the animals.
Thus we may conclude that following the true religion – that which is based on belief in Allaah alone (Tawheed) and worshipping Him in the way that He has prescribed – is an essential element of life if man is to be a true slave to the Lord of the Worlds, and to attain happiness and be free of tiredness and exhaustion in this world and in the Hereafter. It is essential in order to perfect man’s rational thinking. In this way alone can reason fulfil its desires; without it man cannot fulfil his higher ambitions.

Hey, dont knock it till youve tried it!
I'd argue that faith forces you to suspend reality for the invisible and the magical and stunts higher ambitions.

 

[coddles76]

Hey, dont knock it till youve tried it!
I'd argue that faith forces you to suspend reality for the invisible and the magical and stunts higher ambitions.

I have tried it so you could say I'm speaking from experience

 

[barney]

I have tried it so you could say I'm speaking from experience

Ahh, Fair play then

It's not for everybody :|

 

[Woodrow]

It must take a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist. Faith in the personal belief that there is no creator, faith in the belief that life is of no permanent value, faith in the belief that the only importance of life is the current social structure.

It seems that all of those things demand faith in them to be true, if one is to accept them.

Either there is a creator or life is the cruelest thing to happen to sapient beings.

 

[energy_22]

It must take a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist.

It doesnt take any faith.

For example I know the sun will rise tomorrow. Religious people cannt be sure.

 

[coddles76]

lololololol At Energy_22

No disrespect intended but Thats the funniest comment I've heard all year.
Thankyou for putting a smile on my face.

 

[Tornado]

Either there is a creator or life is the cruelest thing to happen to sapient beings.

I guess it depends on the situation. In my case, I'm luck so far that nothing bad has happened to me so far and I stand in awe at the astronomical luck that allowed me and not another to be born.

 

[barney]

It must take a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist. Faith in the personal belief that there is no creator, faith in the belief that life is of no permanent value, faith in the belief that the only importance of life is the current social structure.

It seems that all of those things demand faith in them to be true, if one is to accept them.

Either there is a creator or life is the cruelest thing to happen to sapient beings.

Not really Woody.
No-Creator of humankind is dealt with by evolution.
Life with no permenant value? You gotta be kidding! If I spend my life doing some good for others, It's had value to me , value to them, to their decendents and the world!
Current Social Structure? Nahh, way off mate. I think about tommorows social structure, my kids life and their kids. When I'm rotting in the ground, if i had working synapses, they would be happy to know id done some good for everyone whilst i was here. Thats the point of life.

None of the above demand faith. They simply work on logic and reason alone. Faith is making yourself beleive in something that you normally wouldnt.

Life is as cruel as we make it.

peace.

To Tornado. Whats stopping you going all theisticy then Torney? Is it you want to make the leap of faith and reason is stopping you?

 

[Woodrow]

Not really Woody.
No-Creator of humankind is dealt with by evolution.

Yet an atheist has to believe that matter came ito existence spontaneously. I have yet to see one bit of empiracal evidence that matter can come into being from nothing. You can not have evolution without matter, What was the evolutinary process that caused matter to be?

Life with no permenant value? You gotta be kidding! If I spend my life doing some good for others, It's had value to me , value to them, to their decendents and the world!

I have no doubt you are an altruistic caring person and that you do derive joy by doing good. But, the reality is that without the existence of a god, the deeds of the best man have no more value then the deeds of the most evil man. Both will leave the exact same size hole in a bucket of water, if they poke their finger into it and remove it.

Current Social Structure? Nahh, way off mate. I think about tommorows social structure, my kids life and their kids. When I'm rotting in the ground, if i had working synapses, they would be happy to know id done some good for everyone whilst i was here. Thats the point of life.

Your intention may be to do good in this life, but it takes faith to believe you actually did. You will never know if the best thing you ever did, will not turn out to be detrimental to all you love sometime in the future. It is by faith you believe that your good deeds will result in lasting good.

None of the above demand faith. They simply work on logic and reason alone. Faith is making yourself beleive in something that you normally wouldnt.

Unless you have some quantifiable, qualifiable data to prove that is true, you are operating under the belief it is and that requires faith.

Life is as cruel as we make it.

agreed, that statement holds true for thiests, diests, atheists and agnostics.

peace.

and peace to you also. We may not agree, but it is good to kow that disagreement does not need to result in anger or lack of respect for each others views.

 

[Trumble]

Either there is a creator or life is the cruelest thing to happen to sapient beings.

The "or" contains an unjustifiable (as far as I can see) implicit assumption of mutual exclusivity. Cruelty requires an agent to be cruel. In the case of "life" there is only one potential candidate, which is the principal reason I do not believe there is a God.

But, the reality is that without the existence of a god, the deeds of the best man have no more value then the deeds of the most evil man.

That may be your 'reality', but I am delighted that something so mind-numbingly depressing is not mine. Some deeds increase the suffering of your fellow sentients. Others reduce it. The latter is enough; more than enough. That is all the 'purpose' there is ever likely to be. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

 

[Skavau]

No matter how impressive and attractive the atheist, materialist schools of thought may be, and no matter how many ideas and theories there may be, individuals and societies can never do without the true religion, they can never answer the needs of body and soul.

As an individual, I am doing fine without the "true religion" (to which I assume you mean Islam). As a society, I believe that the country I am living is doing well enough without Islam and equally most Secular countries appear to be doing very well without Islam.

Concerning the needs of the body and soul? My needs of my body are satisfied by food and my soul's needs don't exist, because there is no reason to believe a soul actually exists.

Ernest Renan says: “It is possible that everything we love could disappear and that rational thinking, science and industry could cease to exist, but it is impossible that religion could be eliminated. Rather it will remain as proof that materialistic thought which wants to restrict man to the narrow path of the base life of this world is false.”

Clearly, Ernest Renan is talking nonsense.

'Materialist thought'? Does Ernest even understand what that means?

If man is far away from his Lord, then according to his level of knowledge and understanding he will realize the extent of his ignorance of his Lord and His attributes, and his ignorance of his own self and what is good for him or bad for him, what leads to bliss and what leads to doom, and his ignorance of such basic matters as astronomy, mathematics and the like. At this point the wise man will move from the state of arrogance and pride to humility and submission, and will realize that behind all this knowledge is the All-Knowing, All-Wise, and that behind nature there is an almighty Creator. This truth compels the objective seeker to believe in the unseen and acknowledge the true religion, and to respond to the call of human nature and innate instinct. If a person fails to do that he is going against his innate nature and sinking to the level of the animals.

This article is patronising rubbish.

Disbelief has nothing to do with arrogance or pride, but conviction. I honestly do not believe in the existence of God and I honestly do not believe in Islam. This is not a belief (or rather disbelief) that I have through arrogance, but through conviction. It is my honest belief. If I was to change I would simply be lying to myself and everyone around me. Would you rather I be dishonest and pretend to believe in Islam?

 

[Skavau]

It must take a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist.

Not really.

Faith in the personal belief that there is no creator

False.

I disbelieve in a creator (God). I do not actively believe there is no creator.

, faith in the belief that life is of no permanent value

This is not 'faith'. but a standpoint for me based upon evidence. Life may have permanent value in emotional ways, but in reality - we know that people live and they die. So what faith is presented here?

, faith in the belief that the only importance of life is the current social structure.

That wouldn't be faith, that'd be conviction.

Moreover, it is not true for me.

 

[Skavau]

Yet an atheist has to believe that matter came ito existence spontaneously. I have yet to see one bit of empiracal evidence that matter can come into being from nothing.

False.

No Atheist necessarily has to believe this.

You can not have evolution without matter, What was the evolutinary process that caused matter to be?

Evolution is a theory which explains the diversity of life that we see here today on earth. It has nothing to do with the origins of the universe, formation of life or anything else.

Please, I ask you to scan the basics of the theory before asking questions about it like this.

I have no doubt you are an altruistic caring person and that you do derive joy by doing good. But, the reality is that without the existence of a god, the deeds of the best man have no more value then the deeds of the most evil man.

Why do you say that? What are you basing that on and why do the deeds of a good person automatically have more value if God exists and Islam is true?

 

[Uthman]

Hi barney,

Faith is making yourself beleive in something that you normally wouldnt.

According to Islam, it is normal for someone to believe in one God and submit to him. The concept is known as Fitrah.

Linkage

Regards

 

[Uthman]

Hi Skavau,

and my soul's needs don't exist, because there is no reason to believe a soul actually exists.

I don't think that's a logical statement to make. Just because there is no reason to believe that a soul exists doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist.

Regards