Being both Muslim and Christian?

[Darth Ultor]

You can't be both. Christians by definition accept Jesus as the son of God and as God in the flesh. Muslims see Jesus as merely a prophet and that God is One, not three in one, and He has no children in the literal sense. So you're either Muslim or Christian. You can't be both.

 

[Hulk]

You can't be both. Christians by definition accept Jesus as the son of God and as God in the flesh. Muslims see Jesus as merely a prophet and that God is One, not three in one, and He has no children in the literal sense. So you're either Muslim or Christian. You can't be both.

What about Unitarians though are they considered christians? When you said it like that I was reminded of them.

 

[MustafaMc]

I get the feeling that Redding sees Islam differently than I do. The thing that jumps out to me in both what she and glo have written is 1) submitting to the will of God and 2) finding spiritual uplifting through Islamic rituals of prayer and fasting. {She says she felt an inexplicable call to become Muslim, and to surrender to God — the meaning of the word "Islam." ... She found the discipline of praying five times a day — one of the five pillars of Islam that all Muslims are supposed to follow — gave her the deep sense of connection with God that she yearned for.}

When she says, "At the most basic level, I understand the two religions to be compatible. That's all I need.", I gather that she is talking about believing in God and living a charitable, moral life. I, too, see a lot of good similarities, but our basic beliefs about the nature of God and Jesus are quite different. She seems to want to pick and chose which tenets of the two faiths to accept based on her own intellect and personal insight. Could this statement shed light on her perspective, {Afterward, she learned from local Muslim leaders, including those in Islam's largest denomination — Sunni — and those in the Sufi mystical tradition of Islam.}?

 

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

When I have followed this discussion, I have thought here is some thing what bothers me and I think it is just this one:

She seems to want to pick and chose which tenets of the two faiths to accept based on her own intellect and personal insight..}?

It is sometimes common to the westerners, when they are looking for some new religion or just way of life, that they pick one thing from here and other from there - choosing them which already fit to they own way of think, to they values. People are something like in the supermarket. All my respect to those westerners whose have changed they religion (as I am one of them), but many like to take just some parts, not the whole packet of values of some religion.

Sorry if I can´t explain my ideas perfectly by my not-so-perfect English.

 

[Pygoscelis]

It is sometimes common to the westerners, when they are looking for some new religion or just way of life, that they pick one thing from here and other from there - choosing them which already fit to they own way of think, to they values. People are something like in the supermarket. All my respect to those westerners whose have changed they religion (as I am one of them), but many like to take just some parts, not the whole packet of values of some religion.

I applaud people who think for themselves and come up with their own life views and philosophies, but not so much if they do that and then claim to be what they are not, just so they can feel like "part of the team", or in this case multiple teams. I can't tell if she is earnestly seeking and finding her own way, or if she is just trying to tread the line between two competing ideologies so she can endear herself to adherents of both.

 

[جوري]

o she can endear herself to adherents of both.

People who are two faced usually end up endearing themselves to neither!

best,

 

[Woodrow]

Just a thought.

In this world there are birds and there are mice.

A bat is neither bird nor mouse although it has some attributes of both.

There is no such thing as an animal that is 100% Bird and 100% mouse.

 

[Insaanah]

Those people are in the minority and probably frowned upon by us 'mainstreamers' - but they clearly do exist.

I admire and appreciate the efforts they bring to communication and joint working between the two faiths

They don't really bring communication and joint working. That has been happening between Muslims and Christians following their respective religions for ages. What this brings, is confusion, a violation (and mockery, even if unwittingly) of tenets of faith, yet under the guise of following the faith and bringing reconciliation between the two. This doesn't do favours to anyone, and certainly not to the one doing it.

This results in communication and joint working neither from the perspective of one faith, nor from the other, but from some mixed up invention that neither faith acknowledges (and rightfully so), and is more of a hindrance than a help.

She herself acknowledges, that as a "Muslim", her fundamental beliefs go against the Qur'an.

All this is, is a "feel good" mixture of the two, "hey, I can believe in both and still be true to both", and picking and choosing the parts one personally likes from each and putting one's own spin on those parts (as mentioned above). It reminds me of the Qur'anic verses on those who believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part, and those who follow their own desires yet rejoice in what they are doing.

Communication and joint working between the two faiths doesn't need this, and will not benefit from this. True communication is not by mixing or diluting ones faith, or adopting contradictory beliefs, or a bit of this and a bit of that in order to do so. I hope the Muslims she prays with will not be influenced by her beliefs. That said, I hope she will become a Muslim one day, ameen.

 

[islamica]

Last time a person claimed to be both Muslim and believer of his original faith (hinduism), the religion of sikhism was born.

"I don't care," she says. "They can't take away my baptism." And as she understands it, once she's made her profession of faith to become a Muslim, no one can say she isn't that, either.

Sure they can, the Shahada comes with terms and conditions. If those are not being met, then you negate your own shahada and end up outside the fold of Islam. Believing that Jesus a.s. died is one of them, especially since Allah says otherwise in the Quran.

oh and there is this,

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him" 03:85

 

[ardianto]

I'm a very tolerant person but I don't think we should support this kind of practice and someone needs to educate her.

What Redding has done is not based on religious tolerance, but based on pluralism.

Religious tolerance is an attitude that admit the difference between two or more faiths, and respect it. Pluralism is an attitude that search the common ground and compatibility between two or more faiths.

The danger of pluralism is, this will make someone mix two or more faiths become one. Something that violate the concept of faith itself.

This is why I oppose pluralism, and I choose to support religious tolerance.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Just a thought.

In this world there are birds and there are mice.

A bat is neither bird nor mouse although it has some attributes of both.

There is no such thing as an animal that is 100% Bird and 100% mouse.

I agree with your point.

And I feel compelled to say this: Bats are not mice or rats. Bats are not rodents. Bats are actually genetically closer to whales than they are to rodents. Bats are not blind either. They have excellent eyesight.

These often repeated myths are a personal pet peeve of mine

Sorry for the derail. Now back to our regular scheduled program...

 

[glo]

Sure they can, the Shahada comes with terms and conditions.

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it. Or is there?

I know that in some Christian churches people receive some kind of training or teaching before they commit themselves to the Christian faith (either through adult baptism or 'confirmation of ones faith')

 

[Vito]

What Redding has done is not based on religious tolerance, but based on pluralism.

Religious tolerance is an attitude that admit the difference between two or more faiths, and respect it. Pluralism is an attitude that search the common ground and compatibility between two or more faiths.

The danger of pluralism is, this will make someone mix two or more faiths become one. Something that violate the concept of faith itself.

This is why I oppose pluralism, and I choose to support religious tolerance.

Ok I wasn't familiar with the term Pluralism. Thanks for clearing that up. And I agree with what you've just said as well. Sorry if that is what you meant Junon eace:

 

[GodIsAll]

I agree with your point.

And I feel compelled to say this: Bats are not mice or rats. Bats are not rodents. Bats are actually genetically closer to whales than they are to rodents. Bats are not blind either. They have excellent eyesight.

These often repeated myths are a personal pet peeve of mine

Sorry for the derail. Now back to our regular scheduled program...

Oh, those unique chiropterans!

 

[sister herb]

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it. Or is there?

In many times, no. I remember when I said shahada, I went to the nearest mosque, asked two witnesses and they only checked if I knew what (words) I have to say, nothing else. As you may know, someones say it alone.

Is shahada valid or not if you don´t really understand what you are doing - as I have understood it - is matter what is totally between you and Allah only.

 

[MustafaMc]

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it.

My personal experience was that reverts to Islam probably do not fully grasp the entirety of Islam and all of the aspects of their life that will be touched by their new faith. The main thing is belief in One God without any partners and that Muhammad (saaws) was the last messenger and prophet of God. I believe that after this declaration of faith, the transition to becoming a Muslim is not easy. I also see it more as a lifelong struggle to learn, incorporate more sunnah into our lives and to purify our hearts.

 

[MustafaMc]

If you accept Christianity and feel it is true you must reject Muhammad, if you accept Muhammad then you must reject Christianity.

I find it interesting that in speaking of Islam you mentioned accepting or rejecting Muhammad (saaws), but with regards to Christianity, you did not mention Jesus. When I became a Muslim, my family were upset with me for rejecting Jesus as my personal savior. If I were to apply the reverse of what you wrote, it becomes, "If you accept Islam and feel it is true you must reject Jesus, if you accept Jesus then you must reject Islam." which is not a true statement because all Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet and messenger of God. However, the statement, "If you accept Islam and feel it is true you must reject Jesus (as God Incarnate), if you accept Jesus (as God Incarnate) then you must reject Islam." then it becomes a true statement.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I applaud people who think for themselves and come up with their own life views and philosophies, but not so much if they do that and then claim to be what they are not, just so they can feel like "part of the team", or in this case multiple teams. I can't tell if she is earnestly seeking and finding her own way, or if she is just trying to tread the line between two competing ideologies so she can endear herself to adherents of both.

i think sister harb was saying that many people fail to accept islam in its entirety and that is percieved as a great short coming from then islamic perspective as we are not allowed to pick and choose. it is widely known and accepted that if a person dislikes a single thing our beloved prophet saws liked then he has left the fold of islam. It is different if a person is weak and admits that weakness as a human failing but a stubborn rejection is something different altogether.

 

[sister herb]

^^ Thanks about correction. I maybe expressed my idea unclear.

 

[Insaanah]

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