Being Conservative or Secular?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

they have no purpose. They should be angry at god for creating them like that.

Again, you refuse to admit that you don't know the answer to the question. Since you don't know the answer to the question, in your arrogance you have declared that there is no answer.

I want you to go back and read my post. Please. Just take a few moments and read it carefully. Its an perspective that you may one dfay wish you had taken.

Here's a question: allah created us then who created allah?

Common atheist question. You ignore my posts yet you expect me to answer whatever questions you have. I knew that we had to start talking about God, because secular muslims do not fully believe in God as they claim. You said you believe in god, yet as the dialogue has progressed we begin to see that you had hidden doubts all along.

I will answer your question, as soon as you respond to my points and questions.

 

[Khattab]

"Did you then think that We had created you in jest, and that you would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" (Qur'an: Muminun, 115).

21/17. Had We intended to take a pastime, We could surely have taken it from Us, if We were going to do (that).


Surah AL-ANAAM chapter number 6 verse number 70
"Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah. "

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

I think there is quite a lot for Mr. Makaveli to respond to here, so we shall wait until he responds before continuing.

 

[Chuck]

makaveli, when you will die what do you think what will happen to you?

 

[_salam_]

Oh!! I've got it, are you ready. It's really simple!!
Purpose of Creation:
"I have only created Jinns and men, that they may WORSHIP Me." Qur'an 51:56

And the purpose of this SHORT life in this world is to see if we can fullfil the purpose of our creation, which is to worship Allah. If you are doing ANYTHING else besides worshipping Allah, it is ultimately a waste of your time.

Here's another good lecture I encourage everybody to listen to. Here

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

And as we know, worship is the deepest manifestation of love, and so our relationship with Allah is one of love, and we have been created to love and worship our Creator.

 

[_salam_]

Alhamdulillah!!!!

 

[_salam_]

I should probably recomend this lecture as well, very good. Here

 

[Lateralus63]

secularism, and correct me if i am wrong, is the belief that one's particular view is the only correct view and no other view can be endorsed. Modernist secularism is very dangerous as it too is oblivious to the whole concept of unity, one can have personal opinions, but not to enforce and label other people as incorrect because they have taken up the certain view.

In response to the first post here, conservatism, or secularism, are labels but they do not change who you are, they are simply a word of defining certain groups practices, essential understanding of the various schisms are vital in rebuttals and calling towards unity through reform and concordist approach.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

I hate having to 'bump' threads, but this is an important issue and many other issues that keep coming like music and movies, etc. they all relate back to this, so we need to finish the discussion.

 

[Lateralus63]

Re: Being conservative?

We find many rules of Islam exremely strict.

I see what your belief system is, having belief in god but not practicing the rules. You've embraced the view that believing in god is sufficient enough to live life. I can see why you would, you get to live life to the full.

do i want to follow all the strict rules like no dating, no music, no tv and so on? No.

We want to go out with friends (guys and girls) and watch a movie and talk about it. We find many rules of Islam exremely strict.

I dont' care about most of the messages because they are full of strict laws which prevents me from having fun and having freedom.

Now whats interesting is, you base your desicion of following islam as a matter of, "do i want to".

A toddler, does not listen to his parents because he doesnt want to
A teenager rebells because he doesnt want to obey the rules.

Its the same with you, you dont want to follow islam because you are lazy. Simple. (aimed at makaveli)

Following islam is a matter of right or wrong, not a matter of, whether its going to restrict my freedom.

 

[swanlake]

I would ditch the belief in God, if i cant be bothered with His 'strict' rules. What would be the point of one calling themselves a muslim, if he cant be bothered to 'submit' to Him?

 

[Uthman]

This mentality that you should care only about the here and now will backfire on yourself. If you cannot be bothered to follow the rules set by the creator that is solely for our benefit then you have failed the test, simple as.

021:001
​

Draws near for mankind their reckoning, while they turn away in heedlessness.

And remember that Allah is the oft-forgiving, most merciful.


​

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

This mentality that you should care only about the here and now will backfire on yourself. If you cannot be bothered to follow the rules set by the creator that is solely for our benefit then you have failed the test, simple as.

021:001
​

Draws near for mankind their reckoning, while they turn away in heedlessness.

And remember that Allah is the oft-forgiving, most merciful.


​

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

 

[syedhs]

Salam all,

This will be my first post on this board

I don't want to repeat the arguments already presented, so I am offering a different point of view which is regarding the strict law, forbidden etc etc.

Well, once the world Islam is imposed on someone's face.. prolly the quick association comes to our thought is punishment, hell, Allah command us this and that etc. It seems to be full of scary stuff, and when one looks into enjoyable-worldly thing, one can also see the enjoyment of having a premarital sex, etc etc.

However, I present to anyone concern about one of the fundamental in our life -> It is either you pay now, or you pay later! You may be having a great dream about not being discipilined, or being a drunkard, or having sex wherever and whenever you wish. But the consequences will always come later - haunting your life. Being not disciplined (could be viewed as not having prayer on time or not performing at all) will lead your life goes astray - no need to mention. Drunk - you will lose your own control body, premarital sex - if you are used to this, then prolly your marriage will not be lasting or sincereful. You are start wondering to yourself what a mess have you have done to your life.

I believe that every human want an ordered life, full of love etc. But if you cant contain your lust, then you action will dictate your life. If you still believe in God, then it is better then none - so if all those questions about the meaning of life, who is God, all those punishments, good/bad deeds confuse or owverhelm you, I suggest you to maintain your prayer 5 times a day, may Allah show the straight path in the heart.

 

[Lateralus63]

Salam all,

However, I present to anyone concern about one of the fundamental in our life -> It is either you pay now, or you pay later!

This is an excellent point. Its quite a governing attribute to our lives. If you dont educate yourself and have fun, you will suffer later. However suffer first, then you will enjoy yourself later. Open your eyes to the bigger picture, this fundamental is reflected in all the events of life, taking it further and bigger, islam goes to say, suffer now in this life, and enjoy yourself.....for an eternity, in the next.

And lets get more specific, not exactly every single second of our life is suffering, its actually quite balanced. See the mercy of Allah, asking for such little in such a short time frame, but then receiving an eternity of pleasure in return. As soon as people start to realise this, then what you feel doesnt matter anymore, its about what you are EARNING.

 

[Far7an]

islam goes to say, suffer now in this life, and enjoy yourself.....for an eternity, in the next.

Assalamu alaikum

This reminds me of the beautiful words of our beloved prophet Muhammad (sallalahu alayhi wasalam) 'For the believer, the life of this world is like that of a prison.'

 

[MetSudaisTwice]

only beautiful words come out of our prophet (SAW)
This life is a Hell(prision) for believers and Paradise(freedom) for the kuffars

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

only beautiful words come out of our prophet (SAW)
This life is a Hell(prision) for believers and Paradise(freedom) for the kuffars

You have defintely spoken the truth

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

I would like to continue this discussion (which makaveli never responded to) with any other secular Muslims. Please read through the whole thread first, and then we will discuss why it is futile to believe in Allah yet reject His rules.