Black stones in certain pagan cultures. Should people pray towards Black Stones.

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said:
Thank you Quatata and Dagless thank you for getting my point im hoping that in future others discussing Christian beliefs and Practices are very carefull not to just label them as pagan from superfluous similarity to pagan practices and just focus on the Christian interpretation and belief in what they are doing and on the scriptural backing to any of these. To be honest I find the arguement its all pagan just as invalid when Christians say the same of Muslims; its clearly different. Its just a castaway comment that actually prevents any serious look at the point in discussion and actually thinking about any merit in any proposed arguements and ideas.
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Even if you ask us to ignore your christmas (25 december) celebration and to not label it as pagan
even if you ask us to ignore easter celebration and to not label it as pagan
even if you ask us to ignore all the crosses, statues, saints, popes, etc and to not label them as pagan
etc.

Are you still going to ask us to ignore that you indeed worship a man as god?
 
I don't ask you to ignore anything all i ask is you ask us why we believe what we do ; not just assume that what we believe is pagan in origin just because is shares some superfluous similarity to what some pagan believed. Im sure if we explored every pagan belief and festival from all the varied cultures we could find similarities with everything as I tried to demonstrate with the stones. I am just saying labeling it pagan is just unscholarly and self deceptive as anyone who explores the concepts fully will agree whatever there personal belief about the rights or wrongs it is nothing like what the pagans were believing even if it looks similar at a slight glance.

Love and respect.
 
The problem, 3rd, is that in many cases the comparisons ARE scholarly. There were many pagan symbols that were adopted by the Church so as to better assimilate European cultures. This is taught in Catholic schools to thousands of faithful a day. :/
 
being honest it is not taught in schools ; in reality the question of where the symbols and their origins are not discussed in schools (Catholic I cant speek for protestant). In reality it is only discussed if someone asks the question and you are correct this is the standard reply given then. As far as symbols go I have no issue with symbols as they are just a means of expressing an idea just as words are.
My particular bug bear is the attempt to label ideas that are developed from scripture and tradition as pagan purely based on superfluous likeness to pagan ideas. Some ancient christians seen this too and they felt the answer was obvious, satan knew the truth about God and tried to anticipate Christs mission from what he coulds read from the old testament prophets and tried to create confusion by spreading similar ideas in pagan cultures before , during and after Christ to taint the truth taught by Christians.

To be honest I find both positions very medieval and wish people would stick to the relevant issue of whether the ideas can be supported in scripture.

Love and respect
 
Well, my husband is sitting right here, and he says he learned it in Catholic school in Religions class. Back home where we had many Catholic schools and many Pagans, there were lots of discussions about this and the Catholics said they learned it in Catholic school. So being honest . . . it is. ;)
 
we may both be correct ; I was brought up in Christian Brothers Schools in Ireland in the 70's, I suppose I should accept that my experience is not universal. Maybe we should take a straw poll but as I said its the idea of sticking to scripture for evidence is what I'd rather see rather than diversions that then lead to more diversions and before you know it there is not discussion or debate .

Love and Respect
 
Fair enough, 3rd . . . I've been to Ireland and masha'Allah, what a beautiful country; I still miss Balbriggan! And I will most readily admit that had I heard my host family saying they had learned such things in school, I would have been shocked to say the least. Over here though in the US, at least in the Catholic schools I have lived near or spoken to people who have attended, they are being much more . . . open? about the history of Catholicism and its symbolism, hence my exception at the comparisons being deemed "unscholarly". There are several Catholic historians who have substantiated that the ties between Catholic and Pagan symbolism are much more than only skin deep, and that many were adopted outright by the Church so as to better assimilate the European peoples. Unfortunately sometimes such things aren't just in scripture alone, you have to see the entire history. :)
 
I do agree; but again maybe my wording wasn't the best; the unscholarly comment was really meant to mean just throwing thw word Pagan around without actually really exploring what it is we are believing and why we do it and the scriptoral basis of what we do is unscholarly ( not the looking at how Christianity tried to subvert the traditional practices of the pagans that a perfectly valid area for study and would then lead to a further debate on a different thread) and many of the topics where this word is gratuitisly ( apologies for spelling lol) thrown in have an incredable amount of scripture both pro and con that needs exploring as these beliefs would not have been sustained without thorough scriptural analysis in the first place and remember they have been around for a long time too.

I'm not a lawyer or a theologian ; just Joe blogs doing his best to say what I can as best I can about whatever issue im discussing and learning more in the process.

And yes sometimes I take a gentle poke at things to tease out discussion but not everyone seems to see and understand that :-(

Love and Respect
 
lol I tripped up on this and couldnt help but post it; as it happened I was looking up Barak o bamma antichrist for some light relief and this turned up in one of the side panels. It should provide some with a laugh and others with a fit of apoplexy but it seems this guy really has lost the plot on the black stones of the Ka'ba . I think the interviewer was struggling in end to keep a straight face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEg7B4kOFo8&feature=related

Love and Respect
 

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