Bosnian Muslims mark 600 years of Islam in Bosnia

[north_malaysian]

Actually...not just that, the date when parameswara came to Malaysia is also wrong...i think there are alot more that is wrong in the textbook. :-\

and they still calling Captain Francis Light as the founder of Penang. In fact, the Minangkabaus, Acehnese and Kedahans had been living in Penang centuries before he came... :exhausted

 

[Amadeus85]

Personally, the only real hope I see for Bosnians is for Muslims from the Middle East to come and clean up some of that mess. The mujahideen that came to fight during the war were doing that to an extent...but then the government banished them.

Things are not right over there. May Allah guide them.

Most of those mujahedeens are wahabbis. They teach extremely orthodox and intolerant version of islam, they actually would like to transform Bosnia in another taleban. And Most Bosnians follow tolerant version of islam. Besides, in Bosnia many people are non muslims, christians. So for this country tolerance and open minds are extremely important. Wahabbism and radicalism would destroy this co existence. By the way, most Bosnians dislike radicals, because their version of islam differs from the radical one preached by wahhabbi clerics.

 

[beespreeteam]

Yeah as far as I know, Malaysia and the Far East were introduced to Islam at the time of the prophet (pbuh), whereas what is now Bosnia was introduced to it through the Ottomans (although I don't really approve of all they did).

Aaaanyways, just so everyone doesn't get overly "yippee-yay" about Bosnian Muslims, I advise people to read about what Islam is really like over there before concluding that it's really great over there and all. I was there last summer and I was less than impressed, to put it mildly. Sure there were some really good brothers and sisters, and I mean really well behaved, following the sunnah and everything, but I saw the vast majority of the population as quite lost. In fact, I don't think that more that 20-30% of the Muslims there fast on Ramadan!

As for the "Grand Mufti" Mustafa Ceric, let's just say that most of the things I've heard about him were not that great. Not only that, but the very organization that runs the Islamic projects over there is probably the most negative influential thing I've ever seen -- they even collect money from common people for their services!

Personally, the only real hope I see for Bosnians is for Muslims from the Middle East to come and clean up some of that mess. The mujahideen that came to fight during the war were doing that to an extent...but then the government banished them.

Things are not right over there. May Allah guide them.

This is true of most places, unfortunately. Alhamdulillah there are good people as well.

At the moment, all we can do is make Du'a and give donations.

 

[Skywalker]

Most of those mujahedeens are wahabbis. They teach extremely orthodox and intolerant version of islam, they actually would like to transform Bosnia in another taleban.

This is untrue. If anybody is intolerant, it's the Bosnians themselves, but not because of their religion but because of their sense of nationalism. I've seen it first hand. The ones I met that knew some of the mujahideen were very very decent and open-minded people, way more than the average Bosnian.

Also, where do you get the idea that they wanted to create another Taliban in Bosnia??

And Most Bosnians follow tolerant version of islam.

This is true, but unforntunately, they are too tolerant. They tolerate the breaking of Islamic laws like it's nothing big, they tolerate crimes against then non-Muslim neighbours like it's ok, they tolerate theft, indecency, and all things un-Islamic like they didn't matter at all. Is this the kind of tolerance you look up to?

 

[Amadeus85]

This is true, but unforntunately, they are too tolerant. They tolerate the breaking of Islamic laws like it's nothing big, they tolerate crimes against then non-Muslim neighbours like it's ok, they tolerate theft, indecency, and all things un-Islamic like they didn't matter at all. Is this the kind of tolerance you look up to?

No i mean that they are more tolerant to non muslims than for example radicals in Pakistan or Middle East. In Multicultural and multi religous Bosnia, religious extremism and fanaticism is the last thing that they need.
BTW, i have just read a newspaper, it is said that bosnian state expels mujahedin arabs, because they are threat to countrie's safety.

 

[Skywalker]

No i mean that they are more tolerant to non muslims than for example radicals in Pakistan or Middle East. In Multicultural and multi religous Bosnia, religious extremism and fanaticism is the last thing that they need.

Actually, their nationalism is the last thing they need. Right now there is a lot of tension between the Bosnians (Muslims), Croats, and Serbs living in Bosnia, and it has nothing to do with Islamic teachings. They are proud of their religion, and would fight for it, but they just don't practice it. Islam teaches tolerance towards their non-Muslim neigbours, real Islam at least, and if they really knew that, they wouldn't have many of the conflicts that they have now. I've seen Bosnians building mosques on Croat land in Bosnia just so they can say "this is ours"...but then not one person ever sets foot in that mosque to pray. Can you understand this situation? It's not about religion at all, it's just a cover, it's their sense of nationalism that's driving them to conflict.

I'm not saying they need radicals like Osama Bin Laden teaching over there, but they do need some real Muslims, and from what I hear, a lot of the mujahideen were exactly that. May Allah reward them.

BTW, i have just read a newspaper, it is said that bosnian state expels mujahedin arabs, because they are threat to countrie's safety.

I'm glad you brought this up because I've also seen this first hand and it's quite disturbing. During the war in the mid 1990's, Bosnian Muslims were getting slaughered, their homes plundered, their women raped and brutally murdered, and the international community didn't want to lift a finger. Fortunately many Muslims around the world saw it as a good chance to help out their fellow human beings and fight for Allah's cause and they left their homes and went to Bosnia to fight. I think that if it wasn't for them, there would have been a lot more incidents like Srebrenica.

After the war, it became dangerous for the mujahideen to leave the country because a lot of them left their home countries illegally, and they would be imprisoned if they returned, so a lot of them decided to settle down in Bosnia. A lot of them married and had children there.

From what I experienced there, I didn't see any radicalism or extremism from those people, but instead a fresh new re-introduction to Islamic morals, etiquettes, and values that seemed almost non-existant among the Bosnian Muslims. They didn't affect a lot of places because there weren't very many of them, but the places I've seen seemed to really stand out from among the other places. The had a much better, much friendlier atmosphere to them.

Anyways, to make a long story short, the government wants EU membership like crazy, and they don't want to undermine their eligability by having a population of practicing Muslims. So, they decided to deport all of the mujahideen back to their originating countries, forcing them to leave their new lives and families behind and to face a punishment when they go back, most probably a long prison sentence. Of course they can't do it just like that, what would the international community think of this inhumane act -- so they made up a nice story about the growth of extremism and radicalism through these muhjahideen, and now they have the people's full support in expelling them from their homes and into the waiting hands of their jail guards. Funny how you can use radicalism and extremism as an excuse to do a lot of nasty stuff these days, huh?

The Bosnian embassy here in Egypt is having a tough time with all the men who left their families behind and want to go back to see them. The consulate here told me she can't look them in the eye when she's forced to decline their visa applications. She says she knows it's wrong, but it's politics.

Nice story, huh?

 

[Amadeus85]

From what I experienced there, I didn't see any radicalism or extremism from those people, but instead a fresh new re-introduction to Islamic morals, etiquettes, and values that seemed almost non-existant among the Bosnian Muslims. They didn't affect a lot of places because there weren't very many of them, but the places I've seen seemed to really stand out from among the other places. The had a much better, much friendlier atmosphere to them.

Anyways, to make a long story short, the government wants EU membership like crazy, and they don't want to undermine their eligability by having a population of practicing Muslims. So, they decided to deport all of the mujahideen back to their originating countries, forcing them to leave their new lives and families behind and to face a punishment when they go back, most probably a long prison sentence. Of course they can't do it just like that, what would the international community think of this inhumane act -- so they made up a nice story about the growth of extremism and radicalism through these muhjahideen,?

Some facts from the article that i have read today. Among mujahedeens in Bosnia there were fro example Chalid Sheik Mohammed- the one who organized 9/11 attacks and Ahmad Omar Said Sheik- leader of the group that killed Daniel Pearl. In Bosnia fought many people connected with AL Queada. Muajahedeens, who were called by Bosnians as wahabbis, tried to take some mosques by force, they forced women to wear clothes like saudi women, and forbid to listen to modern music.
For me it sounds like talebans and Pakistan comes in my mind. But of course you may disagree.

 

[Al-Zaara]

Yeah as far as I know, Malaysia and the Far East were introduced to Islam at the time of the prophet (pbuh), whereas what is now Bosnia was introduced to it through the Ottomans (although I don't really approve of all they did).

Aleykum selam.

Alhamdulillah that the Ottomans introduced Islam there too.

Aaaanyways, just so everyone doesn't get overly "yippee-yay" about Bosnian Muslims, I advise people to read about what Islam is really like over there before concluding that it's really great over there and all. I was there last summer and I was less than impressed, to put it mildly. Sure there were some really good brothers and sisters, and I mean really well behaved, following the sunnah and everything, but I saw the vast majority of the population as quite lost. In fact, I don't think that more that 20-30% of the Muslims there fast on Ramadan!

That's what you think. See even though you saw these twisted minds in their daily life, Ramazan is a whole other thing, that's what I find amazing, not only in Bosnia, but also in Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia... I have been in Kosovo this summer, I can't start to explain how twisted everyone there is (mooore than in Bosnia, as many have said), BUT when it comes to fasting I now must admit and say that more over 80% fast through the whole Ramazan, although they do not pray, do not observe hijab/beard/anything other days. When Ramazan comes, they change from 0 to 10. They even pray on Ramazan, whilst other days they do not.

Good & bad. I can say positive things and negative ones.

Personally, the only real hope I see for Bosnians is for Muslims from the Middle East to come and clean up some of that mess. The mujahideen that came to fight during the war were doing that to an extent...but then the government banished them.

Things are not right over there. May Allah guide them.

Mulims from the Middle Eats are also twisted. The only hope I see is for Allah subahan wa ta'ala to open their eyes and give them a second-chance. I wouldn't tell the Bosnians to wait for the helping 'mujaheeds' from other places. I'd say tolerant Dawah from great Imaams would be a good deal for them.

Things are not right everywhere........

Things are not right anywhere.

I've seen lots of Malaysian Muslims who dont observe Ramadhan, and those who dont observe the 5 daily prayers is like hundred times more than those who dont observe Ramadhan. It's kinda "usual" to know a Malaysian that observing the Ramadhan but failed to perform 5 daily prayers.....

Now this is definitely the state in Kosovo. And as far as I have heard, from people visiting there, it's the same in Bosnia.

No i mean that they are more tolerant to non muslims than for example radicals in Pakistan or Middle East. In Multicultural and multi religous Bosnia, religious extremism and fanaticism is the last thing that they need.

Definitely agree.

 

[Skywalker]

Some facts from the article that i have read today. Among mujahedeens in Bosnia there were fro example Chalid Sheik Mohammed- the one who organized 9/11 attacks and Ahmad Omar Said Sheik- leader of the group that killed Daniel Pearl. In Bosnia fought many people connected with AL Queada. Muajahedeens, who were called by Bosnians as wahabbis, tried to take some mosques by force, they forced women to wear clothes like saudi women, and forbid to listen to modern music.
For me it sounds like talebans and Pakistan comes in my mind. But of course you may disagree.

If it's the truth, then I would never disagree, but I don't think that this was the truth. I think it's very possible that a percentage of the mujahideen were as you describe, but I'd say the majority didn't have anything to do with Taliban or Al-Qa3da. From the places that I visited, I didn't get any hint that there was anything extreme going on -- the places that were influenced by these people were closer to Islam in the Middle East, for example in Egypt, than anything out of the mind of an extremist.

Could you post a link to your article?

That's what you think. See even though you saw these twisted minds in their daily life, Ramazan is a whole other thing, that's what I find amazing, not only in Bosnia, but also in Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia... I have been in Kosovo this summer, I can't start to explain how twisted everyone there is (mooore than in Bosnia, as many have said), BUT when it comes to fasting I now must admit and say that more over 80% fast through the whole Ramazan, although they do not pray, do not observe hijab/beard/anything other days. When Ramazan comes, they change from 0 to 10. They even pray on Ramazan, whilst other days they do not.

Then it's obvious that Kosovo is a lot better than Bosnia when it comes to fasting in Ramadan. Ramadan in Bosnia is something that they can't wait to pass, whereas for real Muslims, it should be something that they can't wait to come. Perhaps the Kosovans can one day help the Bosnians out in seeing the light.

Muslims from the Middle East are also twisted. The only hope I see is for Allah subahan wa ta'ala to open their eyes and give them a second-chance.

There are "twisted people" wherever you go, but at least in the Middle East, things that are haraam are not socially acceptable like they are in Bosnia. Drinking, extra-marital relations, not praying or fasting, etc. In the Middle east, people would criticise you if you do any of those things, whereas in Bosnia, people wouldn't care -- they might even encourage you to do them.
Other than that, there is a much, much higher percentage of people in Egypt for example that are good Muslims than the percentage in Bosnia.

I wouldn't tell the Bosnians to wait for the helping 'mujaheeds' from other places. I'd say tolerant Dawah from great Imaams would be a good deal for them.

I agree, I just used the mujahideen as an example to show that people can help them when they want. In fact, I'd love to see more imams come to the country from the Middle East and other places and teach the people there more about their religion and show them how real Muslims live.

May Allah guide them and guide us all to the right path. Ameen.