Britain is in 'moral decline'

[islamirama]

1952 Qatar abolishes slavery
1962 Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery
1962 Yemen abolishes slavery
1963 United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery
1970 Oman abolishes slavery
1980 Mauritania abolishes slavery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

That's very recent, too recent. Even the last khilafah was abolished in 1924. All these "islamic" countries are nothing but secular power hungry men, no one representing Islam. I believe we were discussing slavery from the old ages, a time when others were thriving with slavery and capturing free people to slave them while islam was working towards eradicating this.

Of course if you redefine terms and twist them you can make any point you want. A wife is a slave to some. How many other twisted analogies do you want?

Actually i never thought of it that way till i heard a lecture on it and realized the reality of the situation. It is modern slavery if look at it realistically. As for wife statement, your home is what you make of it...

 

[Amadeus85]

It is also worth to mention that Brittish Crown was encouraging other countries (its colonies, also muslim countries) to ban slavery since the beggining of XIX century. When Ottoman Sultan wanted to abolish slavery in XIX century , his decision brought big resist from conservative muslim scholars from Arabia. They said that people cant abolish something that Allah permits.Just like people cant allow something that Allah forbids.

 

[wilberhum]

It is also worth to mention that Brittish Crown was encouraging other countries (its colonies, also muslim countries) to ban slavery since the beggining of XIX century. When Ottoman Sultan wanted to abolish slavery in XIX century , his decision brought big resist from conservative muslim scholars from Arabia. They said that people cant abolish something that Allah permits.Just like people cant allow something that Allah forbids.

all that is old news and doesn't even count. Well at least one seams to think that. :-\
I guess the US should cut off all the prisoners left hand and let them out. :?

 

[islamirama]

all that is old news and doesn't even count. Well at least one seams to think that. :-\
I guess the US should cut off all the prisoners left hand and let them out. :?

are all prisoners thieves? i thought there were rapists and killers too in prisons?

if you are so keen on implementing the shar'iah then start from the top, you need proper gov't in place without corrupt politicians and cops.

During the caliphate of one of the Sahabans (companions of the Prophet), a man was brought before him to be punished for stealing. The ruler inquired about it and found that the man did have a job but was not paid enough and therefore he stole to feed his family. The ruler called the boss of the man and told him to pair the man fair wages and if he steals against because of this (poverty) then the employer will be held accountable for it.

Not everything is as western non-Muslims paint it out to be.

 

[Amadeus85]

are all prisoners thieves? i thought there were rapists and killers too in prisons?

if you are so keen on implementing the shar'iah then start from the top, you need proper gov't in place without corrupt politicians and cops.

During the caliphate of one of the Sahabans (companions of the Prophet), a man was brought before him to be punished for stealing. The ruler inquired about it and found that the man did have a job but was not paid enough and therefore he stole to feed his family. The ruler called the boss of the man and told him to pair the man fair wages and if he steals against because of this (poverty) then the employer will be held accountable for it.

Not everything is as western non-Muslims paint it out to be.

Islamirama, notice that the harshest laws we have, the less crimes we have.In USA there are about 2 million people in prisons, but USA has 300 millions of citizens.Personally i think that resocializing doesnt work in most of the cases.Someone must spend some time in prison to understand that he/she cant do this anymore.

 

[wilberhum]

i thought there were rapists and killers too in prisons?

So then is it ok to keep them as slaves? :uuh:

 

[islamirama]

Islamirama, notice that the harshest laws we have, the less crimes we have.In USA there are about 2 million people in prisons, but USA has 300 millions of citizens.Personally i think that resocializing doesnt work in most of the cases.Someone must spend some time in prison to understand that he/she cant do this anymore.

2 million ppl in prison? don't you think that is a bit high? i recall reading there are more ppl in prison then in universities. The Us "re-socializing" plan doesn't work, they need to go back to the drawing board. What they need is some good Singapore style canning.

Here's your "re-socializing" plan...

Do a crime, go to prison and get:
-free food
-free housing
-free cable
-free educational material
-free recreation, esp. weights to buff up
-free gang building and crime intelligence sharing

Sometimes i wonder why don't the homeless do the crime so they can go get all those amenities.

Did you know a prisoner gets more than what an average working american can afford? i did a report on this topic in my speech class in univ a while back. And i convinced my whole class and teacher (was a persuasive speech) that what we need is corporal punishment and not "vacations" for the criminals to recharge and go out and do the crime again.

 

[wilberhum]

2 million ppl in prison? don't you think that is a bit high? i recall reading there are more ppl in prison then in universities. The Us "re-socializing" plan doesn't work, they need to go back to the drawing board. What they need is some good Singapore style canning.

Here's your "re-socializing" plan...

Do a crime, go to prison and get:
-free food
-free housing
-free cable
-free educational material
-free recreation, esp. weights to buff up
-free gang building and crime intelligence sharing

Sometimes i wonder why don't the homeless do the crime so they can go get all those amenities.

Did you know a prisoner gets more than what an average working american can afford? i did a report on this topic in my speech class in univ a while back. And i convinced my whole class and teacher (was a persuasive speech) that what we need is corporal punishment and not "vacations" for the criminals to recharge and go out and do the crime again.

Boy, you have all the answers. We should make you warden.
You have sucesfully identified one of the thousands of causes. :?

Most criminals think they are so smart that they won't get caught.
I would bet that a better peanal system would have a minimal impact on crime.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

2 million ppl in prison? don't you think that is a bit high? i recall reading there are more ppl in prison then in universities. The Us "re-socializing" plan doesn't work, they need to go back to the drawing board. What they need is some good Singapore style canning.

Here's your "re-socializing" plan...

Do a crime, go to prison and get:
-free food
-free housing
-free cable
-free educational material
-free recreation, esp. weights to buff up
-free gang building and crime intelligence sharing

Sometimes i wonder why don't the homeless do the crime so they can go get all those amenities.

Did you know a prisoner gets more than what an average working american can afford? i did a report on this topic in my speech class in univ a while back. And i convinced my whole class and teacher (was a persuasive speech) that what we need is corporal punishment and not "vacations" for the criminals to recharge and go out and do the crime again.

Or we can do as the Russians did and send the misfits to Siberia.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I personally like the idea of so called working camps, where the inmates would learn how incredibly wrong their crime was and at the same time pay off their debt to the society.

 

[islamirama]

I used to work as an independent contractor of a certain type of consultancy firm... in every project we had... they would really virtually, literally own my life more than 24 hours a day for 14 days straight or as needed. And while I was working there... I am really not allowed to be myself... I was a mean, analytical, thinking, inhuman- machine.... and I have to look at people as mathematical figures...

Comes with the territory bro. Look at doctors, they don't have a life either, always on call. Maybe you should go independent or start your own firm. Anyways, lets get back to the topic

 

[Muezzin]

Somehow this thread about moral decline segued into a debate about communism, amongst other things. I've moved those posts to the Recycling Bin, as they're off-topic.

Anyways, lets get back to the topic

I agree.

 

[believer]

Comes with the territory bro. Look at doctors, they don't have a life either, always on call. Maybe you should go independent or start your own firm. Anyways, lets get back to the topic

I agree... sorry, I must've been typing fast - I wasn't paying attention to the topic.

Peace!

 

[ahsan28]

The British public is in danger of losing its 'moral focus' on abortion

Sunday October 21, 2007
The Observer


The British public is in danger of losing its 'moral focus' on abortion and treating the procedure as normal, rather than a last resort, says the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The leader of the Church of England claims the growing belief that 'abortion is essentially a matter of individual decision' means it is no longer 'the kind of major moral choice that should involve a sharing of perspective and judgment'.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2196030,00.html

 

[wilberhum]

So the sum of all morals lies on the abortion question? :-\

 

[Isambard]

moral decline is one of the signs of the end, hence moral decline will always be happening, you wont find it going in the opposite direction .....

I hope this doesnt sound rude, but I think you should read the entire thread...

As has been demonstrated in previous pgs, 'moral environment' has bee increasing progressively over the decades.

 

[Isambard]

You really should read all of it

Some hightlights

-We no longer have slaves
-No longer have child labour
-Standard of living across the board is much greater than it was
-Greatly decreased child mortality rate
-No longer have to subjugate yourself to the wiles of a monarch/Pope
-Can believe w/e you wish w/o fear of being impaled

etc.

Id say past ages were alot more barbaric wouldnt you?

 

[Arrakis]

Meh. Ever since Plato people have been saying the same thing, over and over again.

But no one wants to learn their history - hence the press is able to whip up "moral decline" hysteria every few years or so.

Pish posh.

Couldn't agree more, it's practically natural for each generation to see decline in the next, not because it is actually declining, but because generations change.

Someone said on page one of this thread, "that is actually because it has been declining more and more as time has gone on", well no actually that is wrong also. Looking through history we are still not the most depraved of any generation at any time.

Which means it's just an up and down thing when it comes to human morality, rather than a consistant gradual decline.

As you said, if people would but learn their history they would see this themsleves.

 

[Skavau]

I always find that to be a refreshing excuse peddled by Ahtiests once they have a look at what their ilk have done

I just noticed this. Can you please explain first of all, why all Atheists ought to account for injustice committed by other Atheists and can you perhaps (if you think it exists) show precisely how Atheism itself was the inspiration for killing carried out in the past by many Atheists.

I also resent "what their ilk have done". Atheism is not a coherent ideology. It is a negative standpoint on a single metaphysical position.

-- don't you? Godless people have killed hordes and sure they've done it in the name of Atheism .. read up more especially on Enver Hoxha

Please provide evidence on how people have killed in the name of, quite literally no God. Specifically can you provide evidence on how Enver Hoxha killed and oppressed in the name of Atheism.

Also, Communism implies Atheism. Atheism does not imply Communism.