Brits kick out child cremators

[Cognescenti]

The fact that you think this type of treatment is ok at all seems to suprise me so its ok for some blokes from afgan and iran but its cruel when its to an american??? Ok?? whatever you say mate...good morals you have there...

You posted pictures of detainees arriving at Gitmo. Is it permissible for super-high-risk prisoners to be shackled during transfer? Yes it is. That is not torture and you know it. In fact, the mere posing of pictures of prisoners during transfer on the pretense it was standard treatment is cynnical and displays either the weakness of your argument, your level of honesty or your level of knowledge. Which is it? I demonstrated to you the Newsweek Quran story was apocryphal and you respond by waving your hands and asking about the other nameless stories we have not heard of.

guilty before proven innocent i like your style the fact being many innocents were held & tortured without proof or trial in a democratic country and no one seems to have a problem with that yet you have problems with saddam gassing kurds???

hypocrisy is strife....

Did I say anthing about Saddam??? BTW, who, exactly, was tortured while at Gitmo? Don't give us any organic fertilizer about female interrogators or light bulbs withut shades, either.

On the issue of habeus corpus, you do have a valid point, but these are not criminal suspects. One can't have lawyers reading Miranda Rights in flak vests on the front lines.

 

[Resigned]

On the issue of habeus corpus, you do have a valid point, but these are not criminal suspects. One can't have lawyers reading Miranda Rights in flak vests on the front lines.

An interesting argument I’ve come across surrounding habeus corpus is that it doesn’t apply in connection with detainees (enemy combatants).

The detainees at Gitmo are not U.S. citizens, firstly, and secondly, Gitmo is not U.S. soil and thus U.S. law does not specifically apply. The U.S. has a long term lease of the property from Cuba.

 

[barney]

An interesting argument I’ve come across surrounding habeus corpus is that it doesn’t apply in connection with detainees (enemy combatants).

The detainees at Gitmo are not U.S. citizens, firstly, and secondly, Gitmo is not U.S. soil and thus U.S. law does not specifically apply. The U.S. has a long term lease of the property from Cuba.

Which of course is the reason they are there!
And in my opinion, its sly and nasty. Your using legal loopholes to detain them.

The easiest way to deal with them is say that they are Prisoners of War.
When the bombs and attempted bombs stop, and Al Quada, whatever That means these days, signs a ceasefire, then mayby release em.

Aye, we know that they would be back again in short order, but y'know, whats the point in holding 300 odd real terrorists in a prison. It's not like theres not another 100000 out there ready to replace them.

If its a war on terror, its a war that, no matter what your kill-ratio is, and at the moment between combatants its something like 40:1 due to the sheer muppetness of their fighting skill, the war will never end and eventually a democracy cant sustain that.

There is no answers bar Islam taking hold of it's future and the ummah rising against its extremists. Thats never happened historically and so it wont happen now.

But its the only chance. As long as muslims blame the west for their woes instead of the real culprits, this will carry on for years, until a eventual extremist victory.

 

[barney]

second you think rape victims get 50 lashes?? 200 on appeal??? if these are the facts you are going by then i suggest you seriously take a look around....

if you beleive such rubbish then you will beleive anything....

where does it state that rape VICTIMS will be lashed??? how does that even make sense??????

..

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/w...em&ex=1198126800&en=17a903231aef1a5e&ei=5087

K?

 

[Talha777]

Muslims should never allow themselves to be demoralized. America's only strategy in this war is to demoralize Muslims and make us ask ourselves is all the destruction and killing that we are having to endure worth resisting westernization? The answer of the true believers is yes. As long as Muslims hold on to the mentality that sacrificing your life for the sake of truth is our highest aspiration we can never be defeated. We must be like the companions of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and be inspired by their example. When the idolators of Makka were marching to Madina with a well equipped and determined army of 1000 to wipe out Islam for good, there were only 313 poorly armed companions of Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to resist them. They may have been physically weaker, but they had the inner strength that can only come with true belief and commitment to Islam. They told the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam): We are not like the companions of Moses who said to him, "go you and your God to fight, we will stay here." No, We will fight to your right and to your left, we will fight in front of you and behind you, and the enemies will not be able to reach you without having to trample over our dead bodies! Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi. May Allah give the mujahideen of this age the type of courage and determination as the brave companions of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam).

 

[Resigned]

Which of course is the reason they are there!
And in my opinion, its sly and nasty. Your using legal loopholes to detain them.

The easiest way to deal with them is say that they are Prisoners of War.
When the bombs and attempted bombs stop, and Al Quada, whatever That means these days, signs a ceasefire, then mayby release em.

Aye, we know that they would be back again in short order, but y'know, whats the point in holding 300 odd real terrorists in a prison. It's not like theres not another 100000 out there ready to replace them.

If its a war on terror, its a war that, no matter what your kill-ratio is, and at the moment between combatants its something like 40:1 due to the sheer muppetness of their fighting skill, the war will never end and eventually a democracy cant sustain that.

There is no answers bar Islam taking hold of it's future and the ummah rising against its extremists. Thats never happened historically and so it wont happen now.

But its the only chance. As long as muslims blame the west for their woes instead of the real culprits, this will carry on for years, until a eventual extremist victory.

I view Gitmo as a stop-gap measure. I presume that there is some intel being acquired from the captive holy warriors™ so I’m not opposed.

As far as:
”Islam taking hold of it's future and the ummah rising against its extremists…”, well, that’s not going to happen so we have to find alternate avenues.

I think that those with their eyes open realized in the 21st century that state support for terrorism is the core of continuing terrorism. Killing terrorists? It makes them martyrs, and will result in nothing but more popping up. Sure, it's a good thing. It slows them down. It gives us a sense of vengeance. It makes us feel good. But if anyone thinks killing Osama bin Laden and nothing else will solve our terrorism problems any more than cutting our collective noses, they're missing the point.

Cutting off the sources of financing, materials, safe haven, and intelligence is the ONLY way to stop the tide of terror. The ONLY way. Period.

 

[barney]

When the idolators of Makka were marching to Madina with a well equipped and determined army of 1000 to wipe out Islam for good, there were only 313 poorly armed companions of Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to resist them. They may have been physically weaker, but they had the inner strength that can only come with true belief and commitment to Islam. .

If your talking about Badr, which I'm assuming from the numbers involved not the backstory (nevertheless its interesting to see what they teach about it these days), then I fear you are a little out.

There were 313 Muslims and 3000 immortal Angels led by Gabriel for a total of 3313 verses 1100 Quaresh.

Sura 3:123-125. "Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude. Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down? "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught."

So against a force mainly comprised of supernatural beings with otherworldly superpowers and who were completley unkillable, the caravan gaurds, who were heading to Medina to utterly destroy Islam (Probably on the orders of America and the Zionists), they did pretty well to end the battle with only 70 dead and having killed 14 muslims in return.

The angels in this fight managed to kill one caravan gaurd for every thirty Angels fighting. A most impressive peice of military skill.

 

[Rou]

You posted pictures of detainees arriving at Gitmo. Is it permissible for super-high-risk prisoners to be shackled during transfer? Yes it is. That is not torture and you know it. In fact, the mere posing of pictures of prisoners during transfer on the pretense it was standard treatment is cynnical and displays either the weakness of your argument, your level of honesty or your level of knowledge. Which is it? I demonstrated to you the Newsweek Quran story was apocryphal and you respond by waving your hands and asking about the other nameless stories we have not heard of.



Did I say anthing about Saddam??? BTW, who, exactly, was tortured while at Gitmo? Don't give us any organic fertilizer about female interrogators or light bulbs withut shades, either.

On the issue of habeus corpus, you do have a valid point, but these are not criminal suspects. One can't have lawyers reading Miranda Rights in flak vests on the front lines.

Let me be simple then as explaining in details seems to be useless...high risk jail + many innocent people (i will not do the research for you go find out how many were innocent and have still speant 3 years of there life locked up check eye witness accounts of the tipton 3 and so many others and also things like road to guntanamo) now take those two and think about the fact that what you call sooooo high risk i call non advance combatants in a country that is not even theres...if you think thats the treatment they deserve or need i say your level of knowledge needs to be updated about what people are capable of surrounded by soilders in a USA prison!

Second you state that no one was tortured...again is it me or you who is being naive in this situation? there are offical pictures of gitmo with hand cuffs on the floor many accounts of people being deprived of sleep and hand cuffed in akward postion for hours...oh let me guess this aint that bad?? many who were released from gitmo after being found totally innocent after 3 years or more have the scars to prove it mate mental and physical disability of the back,walking with a crouch organs that have been damaged after being force fed.

the mental stress that one goes through seems to be unkown to you i suggest you try and stand still in one spot for an hour and perhaps you will understand what torture is....

the weakness of my argument? the lack of knowledge from my part? i think its more like the lack of morals on your part...

you beleive what makes you comfartble....without even putting yourself in others shoes for a second..

let me see you go without sleep for one day , let me see you not eat for but 8hours (i wont say 24hrs as i doubt you would do that) let me see you stand in one spot for nothing but an hour...

these things seem so easy...why dont you try them and then for a second maybe you might just understand what suffering is...

 

[Rou]

Which of course is the reason they are there!
And in my opinion, its sly and nasty. Your using legal loopholes to detain them.

The easiest way to deal with them is say that they are Prisoners of War.
When the bombs and attempted bombs stop, and Al Quada, whatever That means these days, signs a ceasefire, then mayby release em.

Aye, we know that they would be back again in short order, but y'know, whats the point in holding 300 odd real terrorists in a prison. It's not like theres not another 100000 out there ready to replace them.

If its a war on terror, its a war that, no matter what your kill-ratio is, and at the moment between combatants its something like 40:1 due to the sheer muppetness of their fighting skill, the war will never end and eventually a democracy cant sustain that.

There is no answers bar Islam taking hold of it's future and the ummah rising against its extremists. Thats never happened historically and so it wont happen now.

But its the only chance. As long as muslims blame the west for their woes instead of the real culprits, this will carry on for years, until a eventual extremist victory.

Its very easy to state that islam blames the west for its woes and that is why this is happening...please for a second take a look at the vast number of muslims fighting today compared to the minute band of nobdoys that were fighting at the time before 9/11 this war was manufactured , the terrorists as would be the bigger numnber were born after afganistand was invaded after 9/11 ...and you call this a war?

 

[MTAFFI]

I love the wya people see it there way to make themselves feel better....
when south korea and north korea have issues USA is honor bound to protect the innocent.... when iraq has evil as saddam the USA is honor bound to save them from them dumb selves but when it comes to making a decison on palastinians in there own land being murdered oh thats ok as theres more intrest in leaving israel in charge its called a foot hold mate....

spoils of war you say then i say give the palastinians a fair chance to win it back as you put it....

your post doesnt appear to be much of a response to mine, and I am not sure if maybe you meant to quote someone else, here is my post again

How about the result of WW2? Has land not been conquered, taken and redrawn time and time again throughout the history of man? This land was surrendered to the British by the Ottoman empire, thus making it British land. Also, the people there were given plenty of choice, however they chose to fight again the large influx of jewish settlers and then chose to leave Israel because of the impending Arab attack. Why should they be allowed back in? Why would a country allow enemy combatants to enter their territory knowing what the result would be, does this not seem stupid to you? The Arab countries tried to reconquer this land and could not, they lost time and time again. I hate to be the one to have to break it this way every time but land is often the spoils of war, and Israel has certainly won it fair share of engagements

None of this makes me feel any better, I dont particularly care who inhabits Israel or the land that Israel is cut out of, I live where I please. I am not sure what NK or SK or Iraq has to do with Israel. Palestinians are killed on their land because they launch mortar attacks against another. Their land is taken because they use it to launch these attacks. The more they attack the more they lose, whose fault is that? Stop attacking, stop losing, pretty simple.

And yes I do say spoils of war, Israel was created from a British mandate, not Palestine or anything else, the land was conquered and taken just as it was the last time when the Muslims took control of it. What made that any better? The simple answer is nothing made it better, the only difference is that the people who lost the land then were able to walk away with their dignity and lives, something the people of Palestine cannot say.

How exactly do you give someone a "fair chance" in war, just by the way? War is not fair, it is not polite, it is not a likable thing, it is not fun, it is gory, it is rude, it is sick. Take this quote with you "All is fair in love and war"

I hope you dont feel as though I am being rude or unreasonable, I just am giving a perspective.

 

[Muezzin]

Everything that needs to be said on this thread has been. It's going more off-the rails than... well, British Rail, and it should really be closed now.

If you disagree, feel free to PM either myself or a fellow World Affairs moderator.