Can Iblis Overpower Us?

[Abz2000]

the full manifestation of Iblis' power in the human form is the Dajjal (Anti-Christ), and he will have certain powers with which to put to test the claim of faith through unprecedented persecution - so - yes, it is Iblis the commander behind it, not necessarily the one actually doing all the actions.

the reason for two of us going into detail on the satanists is because we seem to have come to an understanding that it's a loop.
one is the spirit form , the other is the human form.

and these satanists are behind the Dajjal - which comes back round to your question of power of Iblis.

• Ali was reported to have said:

His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star.
Only the believers will be able to read the word ‘Kufr’ [disbelief], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead.

united states dollar and great seal -------------------------mi5 logo ------------------------------------- freemasonic pyramid


now ask yourself how much control they hold over you, and how much legislation (rules) they make for you.

[TABLE="width: 750"]
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[TD="class: QuranDataNumber, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]57[/TD]
[TD="class: QuranDataArabic, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]قُلْ إِنِّي عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّي وَكَذَّبْتُم بِهِ ۚ مَا عِندِي مَا تَسْتَعْجِلُونَ بِهِ ۚ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلَّا لِلَّهِ ۖ يَقُصُّ الْحَقَّ ۖ وَهُوَ خَيْرُ الْفَاصِلِينَ Quran 6:57[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

57. Say: "For me, I (work) on a clear sign from my Lord, but ye reject Him. What ye would see hastened, is not in my power.
The rule is for none but Allah. He declares the truth, and He is the best of judges."

 

[alluminati]

Another thing about the freemasons: the secrets of the temple of Solomon also tell people about magnetism and such, there were technologies way way back (look up ancient greek computer), there was allegedly also anti-gravity devices based on mathematics and such, it is wise to note this pattern: look up civilization timeline

all of these civilzations feature sun-cult worship, the use of paganism/satanism in forms of both druidism and other magical rituals, and they all feature sacrifices and the use of the same tactics as today's illuminati (which is simply the result of generation from generation of satanism passed down, inquire about the 13 bloodlines and the prominence of pythagoras and the his cult.)

The sheer irony about the freemasons is that accordingly at one time they were righteous since they originated from some teachings of the prophet Solomon (may peace be with him), which was later corrupted by other societies, and of course resulted in a change from the masons who were originally believers of Allah into the satanic "free"masons who were now part of the luciferian dogma. It is indeed the mechanisms of the devil, because he does not attack directly, he simply slithers like the serpent and poisons peoples minds and bodies and takes control, and many people do not see him. He has many faces but only one head, very dangerous, ranging and from people to empires devouted to the worship of hatred and war and blood. Pay attention brothers and sisters because history is repeating itself with different names and different people.

 

[YaAqsa]

yes brother Ramadan - it is true,
however there is something which does exist which ventures past the line of freewill - and even the Prophet (pbuh) was affected by it.

:bism:

Qur'an 17:47 We know best what (intention) it is that they listen with as they listen to you, and as they have private conferences, as the unjust/wrongdoers say, "Decidedly you are following (none) except a man bewitched."

Qur'an 53:3-4 "Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,"

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400: Narrated 'Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done.

Astagfirullah, may Allah SWT protect us from ignorance, shaytan, and misguidance, ameen.

Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched, or else Qur'an is wrong, astagfirullah naudhubilah

:salamext:

 

[Abz2000]

i see your leaning towards insulting the family of the Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions,
it is a documented fact that the disbelieving jew who sought protection from jinn did use black-magic on the Messenger of Allah (pbuh).

it happened on an occasion and he was given the solution to that issue as an example to his nation.
what that above verse you referred to meant was that the Quraish were saying that the Quran was being revealed by jinn who fully controlled all the actions of the Prophet (pbuh), when the incident here was totally unrelated - and the next verse indicates your position:

See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.
Quran 17:48

anyone who curses the family of the Prophet (pbuh) is to be lashed in Islam.

 

[Scimitar]

The sheer irony about the freemasons is that accordingly at one time they were righteous since they originated from some teachings of the prophet Solomon.

These teaching NEVER originated from the teaching of Prophet Sulaiman (AS).

Sorry bro, you're wrong about that - you speak in overtly generalised terms. Freemasonry was started in the latter part of the 11 century AD. Fact. What you are referring to are those practitioners of magic who were around at the time of Sulaiman (AS), these Magicians never followed Sulaimans (AS) teachings.

These magicians were not a "brotherhood" or "fraternity" like the freemasonic movement is. The magi of Sulaimans (AS) time were in it for themselves, and despised other magi. The magi by their very nature are fiercely proud and arrogant folk... Whereas, freemasonry being a fraternity - allows for a gradual indoctrination into rituals which allow them to do magic.

The difference being - Magic was an easily accessible (although forbidden) during the time of Sulaiman (AS) - but today, it's kept under close guard by those in the know (i.e: 66th degree + masonry, when you get to illuminati level, you're a patron of the occult arts).

This is a movie about Sulaiman (AS) made by Muslims. What you'll find is an historical account, backed by Quranic ayah and from Islamic knowledge regarding the time of Sulaiman (AS).

It's not the full story of Sulaiman (AS) but for a movie, it makes the point in quite a nice way.

For a further account and research into the history of Magic, read Ibn Taymiyyahs essay on the Jinn. English translation by Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips.

 

[Abz2000]

the masons do however trace their roots back to the temple of solomon, and so do the knights templar, and the church of satan.

their allegories are also concerning the building, and their lodges are named after solomon (solomon's lodge etc), however, they claim solomon enslaved them and made them work slave labour - and going back to the Quran - we find that Solomon (pbuh) did tie the jinns in fetters and make them work.

 

[YaAqsa]

i see your leaning towards insulting the family of the Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions,
it is a documented fact that the disbelieving jew who sought protection from jinn did use black-magic on the Messenger of Allah (pbuh).

it happened on an occasion and he was given the solution to that issue as an example to his nation.
what that above verse you referred to meant was that the Quraish were saying that the Quran was being revealed by jinn who fully controlled all the actions of the Prophet (pbuh), when the incident here was totally unrelated - and the next verse indicates your position:

See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.
Quran 17:48

anyone who curses the family of the Prophet (pbuh) is to be lashed in Islam.

Brother, by claiming that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, you not only are insulting the Prophet(sawaws), but also rejecting numerous Ayats in the Qur'an, and then claim that I'm the one in error.

Qur'an 5:67 "O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people."

Allah(SWT) says in Qur'an that He protects Muhammad(sawaws) from the people.

Musa(AS) was similarly protected by Allah SWT, according to Qur'an, from magic Qur'an 10:77 "Musa (Moses) said: "Say you (this) about the truth when it has come to you? Is this magic? But the magicians will never be successful." "

Al-Razi, one of the major Sunni scholars of tafsir writes in his book of Tafsir al-Kabir 16/32/187, records the following: Majority of Muslims have claimed that the Holy Prophet (S) was bewitched by a Jew. Be it known to you that the Mu`tazilite have refuted this claim, which opposes Almighty Allah’s saying, ‘And Allah will protect you from the people.’

Quoting Tafsir ibn Kathir on 17:47, Allah tells His Prophet about what the leaders of Quraysh discussed when they came and listened to him reciting Qur'an in secret, without their people knowing about it. They said that he was Mashur which according to the better-known view means someone affected by magic (Sihr); it may also mean a man who has a lung, i.e., a mere human being, as if they were saying that if you follow Muhammad, you will only be following a human being. This second suggestion does not sound correct, because what they meant here was that he was under the influence of Sihr (magic) which made him see dreams in which he learned these words that he recited. Some of them said he was a poet, or a soothsayer, or crazy, or a sorcerer.

You gave your own tafsir which disagreed with Ibn Kathir's tafseer. You claimed the ayat was revealed about a Jew bewitching the Prophet(sawaws), and you pushed forward that belief, whereas Ibn Kathir says it was revealed in relation to the leaders of Quraysh who went secretly in the night to listen to the Qur'an be recited by Muhammad(sawaws), and he did not in this part of his commentary push the idea of the Prophet(sawaws) being bewitched, a claim which has been amply refuted.

Qur'an 23:88 Say: In Whose hand is the dominion over all things and He protecteth, while against Him there is no protection, if ye have knowledge?

Qur'an 23:89 They will say: Unto Allah (all that belongeth). Say: How then are ye bewitched?

Qur'an 23:90 Nay, but We have brought them the Truth, and lo! they are liars.

And again, in Qur'an 25:8 Or (why is not) treasure thrown down unto him, or why hath he not a paradise from whence to eat? And the evil-doers say: Ye are but following a man bewitched.

Tafsir ibn Kathir says, Allah said:

(See how they coin similitudes for you, so they have gone astray,) meaning, they accused you and belied you when they said that you were a sorcerer or bewitched or crazy or a liar or a poet, but all of these are false ideas. Everyone who has the slightest understanding will recognize that they are lying.

Allahu akbar.

 

[YM Usrah Umar]

maybe a stupid question but is the temple of solomon actually the real 1 that belongs to suleman (as) or is this fake? have the jews completely changed the inside

 

[Abz2000]

It was apparently first built by prophet Jacob (pbuh), and then expanded by prophet Solomon (pbuh).
The remains of the older building has sunk down with time, It was also once destroyed (razed to the ground) by Nebuchadnezzar then rebuilt.

here it is now:

And to the person seeking discord and division in the faith, I won't even reply.
My post already speaks for itself,
Peace be to you, we seek not the ignorant.
But purify your heart - or just as the messiah will kill the Jews,
The Mahdi you await will kill you.

....and don't start that Sunni Shia thing with me because I'm not from any sect,
I just try to be a sincere Muslim who follows the messenger (pbuh).

 

[YaAqsa]

Actually, I acknowledge the suffering of the Prophets(as) as part of their test, which they succeeded.

However, being injured, suffering, being tested through trials, is not the same as being bewitched and being controlled by Shaytan or under someone else's influence, "doing a thing which you do not remember doing".

I thought we'd have an intelligent conversation, but you've forgone intellect in favor of cursing and emotion. You're now just being insulting to me, so I'll end the conversation here.

I've given ample evidence already to support my stance, you've continued failing to disprove it, only posting your angry emotional rhetoric without supporting evidence of your own. I'll let the people who read this decide for themselves, as we're only having a peaceful discussion and not fighting as you seem to be doing with me.

To summarize my point for any intellectual mind reading this, the Prophet(sawaws) can suffer and be attacked and even be murdered and be spit on, all of this could be within the Divine Will (Qadr) of Allah SWT, but for the Prophet(sawaws) to do some sin himself would be against everything in the Qur'an, when Allah SWT says that he is the best example to follow, that he doesn't speak of his own desire -- it is only a revelation revealed, that Allah is protecting him, that Allah hates those who preach something but do not practice it, etc...

The Prophet(sawaws) however, CANNOT be controlled by other people, he cannot be cursed and bewitched by Shaytan or any other creature. However, some very confused and low-faith individuals have attributed such humiliation and impossibility to the Prophet(sawaws) as we read of so many cases where the Prophet(sawaws) is said to have been influenced by Shaytan, made mistakes, forgotten Surahs, forgotten Salat, and behaved in a bad manner which is not conducive to the Qur'an and Sunnah that we have thousands of evidences for.

“What occurred with suratul Najm and its recitation ‘These are the lofty (idols), verily their intercession is sought after’ is well known amongst the Salaf; that this was recited by Rasulullah and then Allah abrogated it.”
Minhaj Sunnah, Volume 2 page 409

So if we say, without proof, that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, then we allow for nonsensical narrations as the above to enter our Deen, then the Zionists use these fabricated narrations which you have willingly believed in, against all evidence and against all logic and against Qur'an, to attack Islam and continue to oppress Muslims.

Come to Haqq. Allahuma sullee 'ala Muhammad wa alee Muhammad.

Asalaamu alaikum.

 

[Al-Mufarridun]

Actually, I acknowledge the suffering of the Prophets(as) as part of their test, which they succeeded.

However, being injured, suffering, being tested through trials, is not the same as being bewitched and being controlled by Shaytan or under someone else's influence, "doing a thing which you do not remember doing".

I thought we'd have an intelligent conversation, but you've forgone intellect in favor of cursing and emotion. You're now just being insulting to me, so I'll end the conversation here.

I've given ample evidence already to support my stance, you've continued failing to disprove it, only posting your angry emotional rhetoric without supporting evidence of your own. I'll let the people who read this decide for themselves, as we're only having a peaceful discussion and not fighting as you seem to be doing with me.

To summarize my point for any intellectual mind reading this, the Prophet(sawaws) can suffer and be attacked and even be murdered and be spit on, all of this could be within the Divine Will (Qadr) of Allah SWT, but for the Prophet(sawaws) to do some sin himself would be against everything in the Qur'an, when Allah SWT says that he is the best example to follow, that he doesn't speak of his own desire -- it is only a revelation revealed, that Allah is protecting him, that Allah hates those who preach something but do not practice it, etc...

The Prophet(sawaws) however, CANNOT be controlled by other people, he cannot be cursed and bewitched by Shaytan or any other creature. However, some very confused and low-faith individuals have attributed such humiliation and impossibility to the Prophet(sawaws) as we read of so many cases where the Prophet(sawaws) is said to have been influenced by Shaytan, made mistakes, forgotten Surahs, forgotten Salat, and behaved in a bad manner which is not conducive to the Qur'an and Sunnah that we have thousands of evidences for.

“What occurred with suratul Najm and its recitation ‘These are the lofty (idols), verily their intercession is sought after’ is well known amongst the Salaf; that this was recited by Rasulullah and then Allah abrogated it.”
Minhaj Sunnah, Volume 2 page 409

So if we say, without proof, that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, then we allow for nonsensical narrations as the above to enter our Deen, then the Zionists use these fabricated narrations which you have willingly believed in, against all evidence and against all logic and against Qur'an, to attack Islam and continue to oppress Muslims.

Come to Haqq. Allahuma sullee 'ala Muhammad wa alee Muhammad.

Asalaamu alaikum.

If we were to follow your logic brother, we would all be having this conversation in Jannah now!

 

[YaAqsa]

If we were to follow your logic brother, we would all be having this conversation in Jannah now!

Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy

 

[جوري]

Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy

I think you're a deviant shia.. which is worst than crazy!

Bassam Zawadi ​

This article will be divided into the two following sections: -
1) The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
2) Even if the Narrations Were True, They Don't Disprove Muhammad's Prophet hood

The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts ​

This incident is recorded in a number of sources.
Source 1:
First one is in Ibn Sa'ad's book, Kitab Al Tabaqaat.
Problem with Narration:
It contains the infamous Al Waqidi, who has been condemned. Interestingly a Christian has done some impressive research on this individual in one of his articles and I will therefore be copying this short piece from his article...

Abd Allah Ibn Ali al Madini and his father said: "Al-Waqidi has 20,000 Hadith I never heard of." And then he said: "His narration shouldn't be used" and considered it weak.
Yahya Ibn Muaen said: "Al-Waqidi said 20,000 false hadith about the prophet."
Al-Shafi'i said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Ibn Hanbal said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Al-Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. (Siar Aalam al nublaa - althagbi - biography of Al-Waqidi)
The following Muslim author writes:
As a report of history, this narration suffers from two fatally serious defects. The first is the UNIVERSALLY RECOGNISED UNTRUSTWORTHINESS OF AL-WAQIDI. Details of his unreliability as a narrator would probably fill several pages, but all of it may be suitably condensed into a statement by Imam ash-Shafi'ee, who was his contemporary, and who knew him personally. Ash-Shafi'ee has the following to say: "In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi."[SUP]3[/SUP] (Sources: http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/vicious_unscrupulous_propaganda_of_shiia-2.htm" and http://www.ansar.org/english/hasan.htm; bold emphasis ours)
Others say:
Al-Waqidi (130/747-207/822-23), who wrote over twenty works of an historical nature, but only the Kitab al-Maghazi has survived as an independent work. His reputation is marred by the fact that he relied upon story tellers; viz., those who embellished the stories of others. Al-Waqidi did such embellish, such as by adding dates and other details onto the account of Ibn Ishaq (at pages 25-29) (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/enlightenment/id3.html)
Even the English translator of Ibn Sa'd's work had this to say about al-Waqidi:
... The chain of the narrators is not reliable because the person who narrated to Ibn Sa'd was Waqidi WHO IS NOTORIOUS AS A NARRATOR OF FABRICATED hadithes. The next one Ya'qub is unknown and 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Abd al-Rahman is not a Companion. Consequently this narration is not trustworthy. (Ibn Sa'd's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, Volume I, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. [Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi, 110 002 India], p. 152, fn. 2; capital emphasis ours)
And the list goes on of those who called him a liar.
Al-Waqidi was also one of those that narrated the story of the Satanic Verses. The most amazing part of this is that the authors' friend, MENJ has a response on the same web site where this rebuttal appears from G.F. Haddad seeking to deny the historicity of the Satanic Verses where he calls into question al-Waqidi's reliability! Here is what Haddad says about al-Waqidi:
[(*) Muhammad ibn `Umar al-Waqidi (d. 207), Ahmad ibn Hanbal said of him: "He is A LIAR." Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said: "DISCARDED." Ibn `Adi said: "His narrations ARE NOT RETAINED, AND THEIR BANE COMES FROM HIM." Ibn al-Madini said: "HE FORGES HADITHS." Al-Dhahabi said: "CONSENSUS HAS SETTLED OVER HIS DEBILITY." Mizan al-I`tidal (3:662-666 #7993).] (Source: http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/haddad.htm; capital emphasis ours)

So as we can see, this narration is unreliable.

Second Narration:
From Al Tabari's book, Al Tarikh.
Problem with Narration
Contains two weak narrators.
First one is Ibn Fadl Al Abrash and Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani said regarding him "Trustworthy, but makes many mistakes".
Second one is Ibn Humayd Al Raazi and the majority of scholars have declared him a liar.

Anther problem with the narration is that it states that when Gabriel told the Prophet (peace be upon him) to read, the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "What should I read?". However, the several other sound narrations state that the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "I don't know how to read"

So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable.

Third Narration:
Saheeh Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 111
Problem with Narration:
This narration is doubtful for a number of reasons.
First, there are several other sound narrations that speak about the revelation being sent to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and none of them speak about his suicide attempts.
Secondly, notice what the narration says...
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 009, Book 087, Hadith Number 111.


Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

Notice that Aisha said that she only "heard" how the Prophet (peace be upon him) intended to commit suicide. We don't know who she heard this from and therefore cannot judge whether it came from a trust worthy source or not.
Thirdly, notice how the story doesn't make much sense...
Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).
The narration is saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would attempt to commit suicide several times and each time before he was about to do it Gabriel would come and reassure him of his Prophet hood. This does not make sense. For if the Prophet (peace be upon him) wanted to ensure that he was truly a Messenger of God, then only one vision from Gabriel would have been enough proof.
Fourth, in an authentic hadith the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked when he felt depressed the most...

Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 454:
Narrated 'Aisha:
That she asked the Prophet (peace be upon him), 'Have you encountered a day harder than the day of the battle) of Uhud?" The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, "Your tribes have troubled me a lot, and the worse trouble was the trouble on the day of 'Aqaba when I presented myself to Ibn 'Abd-Yalail bin 'Abd-Kulal and he did not respond to my demand. So I departed, overwhelmed with excessive sorrow, and proceeded on, and could not relax till I found myself at Qarnath-Tha-alib where I lifted my head towards the sky to see a cloud shading me unexpectedly. I looked up and saw Gabriel in it. He called me saying, 'Allah has heard your people's saying to you, and what they have replied back to you, Allah has sent the Angel of the Mountains to you so that you may order him to do whatever you wish to these people.' The Angel of the Mountains called and greeted me, and then said, "O Muhammad! Order what you wish. If you like, I will let Al-Akh-Shabain (i.e. two mountains) fall on them." The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "No but I hope that Allah will let them beget children who will worship Allah Alone, and will worship None besides Him."

Here we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) stated that the worst trouble or depression that he went through was during the time he went to the city of Taif and was rejected the people. Yet, nowhere do we see that he tried to commit suicide after this incident. Therefore, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to have attempted to commit suicide in the previous incident would have to mean that he was more depressed. However, we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he was most depressed at this incident. This causes us to doubt the Bukhari narration even more.

 

[جوري]

Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy

I think you're a deviant shia.. which is worst than crazy!

Bassam Zawadi ​

This article will be divided into the two following sections: -
1) The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
2) Even if the Narrations Were True, They Don't Disprove Muhammad's Prophet hood

The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts ​

This incident is recorded in a number of sources.
Source 1:
First one is in Ibn Sa'ad's book, Kitab Al Tabaqaat.
Problem with Narration:
It contains the infamous Al Waqidi, who has been condemned. Interestingly a Christian has done some impressive research on this individual in one of his articles and I will therefore be copying this short piece from his article...

Abd Allah Ibn Ali al Madini and his father said: "Al-Waqidi has 20,000 Hadith I never heard of." And then he said: "His narration shouldn't be used" and considered it weak.
Yahya Ibn Muaen said: "Al-Waqidi said 20,000 false hadith about the prophet."
Al-Shafi'i said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Ibn Hanbal said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Al-Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. (Siar Aalam al nublaa - althagbi - biography of Al-Waqidi)
The following Muslim author writes:
As a report of history, this narration suffers from two fatally serious defects. The first is the UNIVERSALLY RECOGNISED UNTRUSTWORTHINESS OF AL-WAQIDI. Details of his unreliability as a narrator would probably fill several pages, but all of it may be suitably condensed into a statement by Imam ash-Shafi'ee, who was his contemporary, and who knew him personally. Ash-Shafi'ee has the following to say: "In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi."[SUP]3[/SUP] (Sources: http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/vicious_unscrupulous_propaganda_of_shiia-2.htm" and http://www.ansar.org/english/hasan.htm; bold emphasis ours)
Others say:
Al-Waqidi (130/747-207/822-23), who wrote over twenty works of an historical nature, but only the Kitab al-Maghazi has survived as an independent work. His reputation is marred by the fact that he relied upon story tellers; viz., those who embellished the stories of others. Al-Waqidi did such embellish, such as by adding dates and other details onto the account of Ibn Ishaq (at pages 25-29) (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/enlightenment/id3.html)
Even the English translator of Ibn Sa'd's work had this to say about al-Waqidi:
... The chain of the narrators is not reliable because the person who narrated to Ibn Sa'd was Waqidi WHO IS NOTORIOUS AS A NARRATOR OF FABRICATED hadithes. The next one Ya'qub is unknown and 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Abd al-Rahman is not a Companion. Consequently this narration is not trustworthy. (Ibn Sa'd's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, Volume I, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. [Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi, 110 002 India], p. 152, fn. 2; capital emphasis ours)
And the list goes on of those who called him a liar.
Al-Waqidi was also one of those that narrated the story of the Satanic Verses. The most amazing part of this is that the authors' friend, MENJ has a response on the same web site where this rebuttal appears from G.F. Haddad seeking to deny the historicity of the Satanic Verses where he calls into question al-Waqidi's reliability! Here is what Haddad says about al-Waqidi:
[(*) Muhammad ibn `Umar al-Waqidi (d. 207), Ahmad ibn Hanbal said of him: "He is A LIAR." Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said: "DISCARDED." Ibn `Adi said: "His narrations ARE NOT RETAINED, AND THEIR BANE COMES FROM HIM." Ibn al-Madini said: "HE FORGES HADITHS." Al-Dhahabi said: "CONSENSUS HAS SETTLED OVER HIS DEBILITY." Mizan al-I`tidal (3:662-666 #7993).] (Source: http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/haddad.htm; capital emphasis ours)

So as we can see, this narration is unreliable.

Second Narration:
From Al Tabari's book, Al Tarikh.
Problem with Narration
Contains two weak narrators.
First one is Ibn Fadl Al Abrash and Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani said regarding him "Trustworthy, but makes many mistakes".
Second one is Ibn Humayd Al Raazi and the majority of scholars have declared him a liar.

Anther problem with the narration is that it states that when Gabriel told the Prophet (peace be upon him) to read, the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "What should I read?". However, the several other sound narrations state that the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "I don't know how to read"

So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable.

Third Narration:
Saheeh Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 111
Problem with Narration:
This narration is doubtful for a number of reasons.
First, there are several other sound narrations that speak about the revelation being sent to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and none of them speak about his suicide attempts.
Secondly, notice what the narration says...
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 009, Book 087, Hadith Number 111.


Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

Notice that Aisha said that she only "heard" how the Prophet (peace be upon him) intended to commit suicide. We don't know who she heard this from and therefore cannot judge whether it came from a trust worthy source or not.
Thirdly, notice how the story doesn't make much sense...
Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).
The narration is saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would attempt to commit suicide several times and each time before he was about to do it Gabriel would come and reassure him of his Prophet hood. This does not make sense. For if the Prophet (peace be upon him) wanted to ensure that he was truly a Messenger of God, then only one vision from Gabriel would have been enough proof.
Fourth, in an authentic hadith the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked when he felt depressed the most...

Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 454:
Narrated 'Aisha:
That she asked the Prophet (peace be upon him), 'Have you encountered a day harder than the day of the battle) of Uhud?" The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, "Your tribes have troubled me a lot, and the worse trouble was the trouble on the day of 'Aqaba when I presented myself to Ibn 'Abd-Yalail bin 'Abd-Kulal and he did not respond to my demand. So I departed, overwhelmed with excessive sorrow, and proceeded on, and could not relax till I found myself at Qarnath-Tha-alib where I lifted my head towards the sky to see a cloud shading me unexpectedly. I looked up and saw Gabriel in it. He called me saying, 'Allah has heard your people's saying to you, and what they have replied back to you, Allah has sent the Angel of the Mountains to you so that you may order him to do whatever you wish to these people.' The Angel of the Mountains called and greeted me, and then said, "O Muhammad! Order what you wish. If you like, I will let Al-Akh-Shabain (i.e. two mountains) fall on them." The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "No but I hope that Allah will let them beget children who will worship Allah Alone, and will worship None besides Him."

Here we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) stated that the worst trouble or depression that he went through was during the time he went to the city of Taif and was rejected the people. Yet, nowhere do we see that he tried to commit suicide after this incident. Therefore, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to have attempted to commit suicide in the previous incident would have to mean that he was more depressed. However, we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he was most depressed at this incident. This causes us to doubt the Bukhari narration even more.

 

[YaAqsa]

Blueshell, it seems you agree with me that the Prophet(sawaws) didnt' attempt to commit suicide and that Bukhari's hadith is fabricated.

So you agree with a Shi'a that Bukhari contains fabrications, and yet Bukhari himself claims his collection of Hadith to be "Sahih".

Qur'an 23:88 Say: In Whose hand is the dominion over all things and He protecteth, while against Him there is no protection, if ye have knowledge?

Qur'an 23:89 They will say: Unto Allah (all that belongeth). Say: How then are ye bewitched?

Qur'an 23:90 Nay, but We have brought them the Truth, and lo! they are liars.

Qur'an 17:47 We know best what (intention) it is that they listen with as they listen to you, and as they have private conferences, as the unjust (of them) say, "Decidedly you are following (none) except a man bewitched."

Qur'an 53:3-4 "Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,"

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400: Narrated 'Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done.



Look forwards to your response with regards to the above, jazakallah for agreeing with me and coming towards Haqq, inshallah by the end of our discussion you will realize the concept of Masoom.

 

[جوري]

No I don't agree with deviants. Read thoroughly the above response without cherry picking. Having an unabridged compendium denotes that one should include every last detail for examination by scholars and scholars have indeed commented on the tawatur of said Hadith. You need to teach yourself the basics on the science of Hadith and Isnad.

If I were writing a science book I'd include all my research findings and then have it peer reviewed by several scholars in the field for integrity and logical constancy and compare with several sources on the same subject matter. The integrity of all my sources should also be questioned but not omitted. Try to apply that concept here since that's what the 'science of Hadith' is and that's what makes our sources, scholars and richness of text incredibly well preserved and unparalleled!

I find it a waste of time to engage in vain discourse with kaffirs and even worst a deviant. At least I understand their intent with fabrication but what is yours? What a pitiable attempt and pitiable life you're not enjoying the life of a kaffir nor are you considered a Muslim!

Best,

 

[YaAqsa]

No I don't agree with deviants. Read thoroughly the above response without cherry picking. Having an unabridged compendium denotes that one should include every last detail for examination by scholars and scholars have indeed commented on the tawatur of said Hadith. You need to teach yourself the basics on the science of Hadith and Isnad.

If I were writing a science book I'd include all my research findings and then have it peer reviewed by several scholars in the field for integrity and logical constancy and compare with several sources on the same subject matter. The integrity of all my sources should also be questioned but not omitted. Try to apply that concept here since that's what the 'science of Hadith' is and that's what makes our sources, scholars and richness of text incredibly well preserved and unparalleled!

I find it a waste of time to engage in vain discourse with kaffirs and even worst a deviant. At least I understand their intent with fabrication but what is yours? What a pitiable attempt and pitiable life you're not enjoying the life of a kaffir nor are you considered a Muslim!

Best,

Jazakallah for your kindness, Allahu akbar.

I say that the hadith is fabricated, you agree it is weak/unreliable/ludicrous in nature: "So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable."

And instead of agreeing with me, you'd rather attack and insult me, just because I love Khadijah (AS) more than Aisha... because I love Fatima Zahra (AS) and 'Ali (AS) more than Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthsman... Because I love Hassan (AS) more than Muawiya... Because I love Hussein (AS) more than Yazeed...

Even though Muhammad (SAWAWS) said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al*Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

Why don't you study the Tawatur of that?

Then tell me, you have the Qur'an, yes, but where is the Ahlul-Bayt (AS) in your deen? Show me where you take any matters of Fiqh from them, show me where they taught you Salat, show me where they acted as your Mawla and answered questions posed by the Ummah, show me their status in your deen.

"the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)"

Why have you separated them from Qur'an and then called their followers deviants and kaffirs? If "Labayk ya Rasoolillah" makes me a deviant, then Allahu akbar.

So far, I have proven that the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and you have agreed that Bukhari contains fabricated/weak/nonsensical hadith. Anyone reading this can see for themselves and read the hadith posted in order to realize the truth.

 

[جوري]

Jazakallah for your kindness, Allahu akbar.

I say that the hadith is fabricated, you agree it is weak/unreliable/ludicrous in nature: "So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable."

And instead of agreeing with me, you'd rather attack and insult me, just because I love Khadijah (AS) more than Aisha... because I love Fatima Zahra (AS) and 'Ali (AS) more than Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthsman... Because I love Hassan (AS) more than Muawiya... Because I love Hussein (AS) more than Yazeed...

Even though Muhammad (SAWAWS) said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al*Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

Why don't you study the Tawatur of that?

Then tell me, you have the Qur'an, yes, but where is the Ahlul-Bayt (AS) in your deen? Show me where you take any matters of Fiqh from them, show me where they taught you Salat, show me where they acted as your Mawla and answered questions posed by the Ummah, show me their status in your deen.

"the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)"

Why have you separated them from Qur'an and then called their followers deviants and kaffirs? If "Labayk ya Rasoolillah" makes me a deviant, then Allahu akbar.

So far, I have proven that the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and you have agreed that Bukhari contains fabricated/weak/nonsensical hadith. Anyone reading this can see for themselves and read the hadith posted in order to realize the truth.

Given the death of Anwar, I am really not in the mood for you. Go like what you like & hate what you hate. You don't need to make sense of it to me, you're a grown man (we hope) make your own decisions and yes your ignorance and foolishness renders you a deviant. Neither Allah swt nor Mohammed (PBUH) said love Fatima more than Aisha, I understand many of you go so far to say she's in hell (a3ooth billah) nor do I care if you like Ali more than Abu Bakr etc. etc.. what silliness and foolishness.. None of your picking & choosing was commanded by Allah nor his prophet..

 

[Abz2000]

Which anwar sis?
Our honest and outspoken brother?

 

[Abz2000]

Just checked (don't watch the news) inshaAllah, Allah will keep his message of hope and motivation alive in the hearts of true believers everywhere,
And we shall be a cause for his continued elevation,
May Allah grant his family steadfastness and safety from trials, and join him with the Prophets,
Ameen