Can life be created in a lab?

[Trumble]

so bascailly that lightning was caused by God's Will, and if you can epxlain how it happened (chemistry Physics) you are just saying how God performed it.

OK. So do you think there are any actions in the universe, any at all, that are not caused by God's Will? If so, what are they?

 

[Ali_Cena]

OK. So do you think there are any actions in the universe, any at all, that are not caused by God's Will? If so, what are they?

you know trumble i can see 10 steps ahead and probabily know were you are going to conclude with that question of yours, but anyway ill try my debating skills and see what happens. the answer to your question is this, obviously anything that happened may be of God's will such as nature; take a lightning strike for an example. furthermore seeing as humans have a free will, some actions are caused by humans free will, and other from God's Will, and obvously our will, has to grant the permission of God's will, as we are restricted, see qad qa qader, predestination and free will, islam belives in both as far as i am aware.

To conclude i would like to say this topic is about can life be created in a lab and nothing more.
Peace out

 

[Hamayun]

Wow!! That is such a lame story! We don't believe in God because we don't have an explanation to natural phenomena!!! :raging:

We believe in God because we know Muhammad (pbuh) did not spend 20 years of his life in prayer day and night and suffering just for fun! :rollseyes

Sometimes you Atheists really don't know where to draw the line. Thank God I am not an ignorant Kafir anymore.

Tsk Tsk....

 

[Trumble]

the answer to your question is this, obviously anything that happened may be of God's will such as nature; take a lightning strike for an example. furthermore seeing as humans have a free will, some actions are caused by humans free will, and other from God's Will, and obvously our will, has to grant the permission of God's will, as we are restricted, see qad qa qader, predestination and free will, islam belives in both as far as i am aware.

Hehe... no, I don't want a debate on free will and determinism! I already know that the Islamic opinion on that issue is incoherent - in my opinion - but before you get too upset about that I think pretty much every view on the subject is incoherent as well.

I'm interested in where you draw a dividing line between the intervention of God by 'supernatural' processes that cannot (ever?) be understood by science, and God's Will being exercised by means of physical processes that science has allowed us to discover. A repeating theme in the last couple of threads in which we have participated is criticism of my point to the effect that just because science hasn't discovered something yet doesn't mean it never will.. including such things as those answered questions regarding the origin of species, how to create life in lab, or whatever. Yet if you draw no distinction between the application of God's Will by supernatural methods and its application by natural methods, then surely everything that happens in the universe can ultimately be described by science and, theoretically, replicated by science?

 

[Wyatt]

Hehe... no, I don't want a debate on free will and determinism! I already know that the Islamic opinion on that issue is incoherent - in my opinion - but before you get too....

Don't worry, I understand you. :-[

The rather arrogant here that can't spell and aren't able to think about maturely discussing the superficial creation of life along with atheists without insulting them just shows that they're probably insecure with their own faith. If they were true muslims, I think they would calmly talk about this and not insult, but discuss the topic and give Islam's point of view. :X

Hopefully. imsad

This is a teenager asking for maturity from someone who just claimed to ain't be no kid.

 

[themuffinman]

i dont think life can be created in a lab. i mean im a bio major and i just recently started taking bio 101 but in the book it said that after the big bang there were pools of lifeless molecules or inorganic molecules, they became more complex and suddenly they became alive, or organic molecules....idk it just doesnt make sense to me, how can something not alive become suddenly "alive". how can we explain the complex emotional/thinking system humans have compared to animals? if we both originated from the same stuff how come animals developed the way they did and humans they way we did? how is it that we can go to the moon but fail to even create the simplest body part...say a hair follicle? if you notice medicine has no "cures" or replacements for what allah has given u in the first place they cannot recreate even the tiniest thing of a human being, all medicine does is treate ur illness and you have to stay on it for the rest of your life. i find it impossible to beleive that everything is just a huge coincedence. i forgot the saying but give someone even the tiniest bit of knowlege and he becomes an atheist and our knowlege compared to allahs knowledge is that of a drop of water in the entire ocean so well never be able to grasp his wonders.

 

[Ali_Cena]

Don't worry, I understand you. :-[ The rather arrogant here that can't spell

after you told me to stop using all the >>>, ????,!!!!! i sorted my act out, and well i dont see any spelling errors, and if you do; this is not an english essay is it? i am not being marked for spelling so it doesnt matter.

and aren't able to think about maturely discussing the superficial creation of life along with atheists without insulting them just shows that they're probably insecure with their own faith.

well thats your opinoin, actually i am not insecure about my own faith, i was just frustrated at the time, and well didnt use all my potential in writing a good reply, so my "unmaturely" reply came out, which i am sorry for afcoures.


HI

If they were true muslims, I think they would calmly talk about this and not insult, but discuss the topic and give Islam's point of view. :X

well i am talking calmly about it know, i mean all smiles!. LOL if i insulted you well, would you accept my apoligies.

Hopefully. imsad

This is a teenager asking for maturity from someone who just claimed to ain't be no kid.

i am sure you woundlt classify a 17 year old as a "kid" would you, my response might be of that, but i change...:thumbs_up

Peace

 

[Ali_Cena]

Hi podarak, one other thing i think you have insulted me in your post.......not happy with that.

 

[Samkurd]

well we were sort of half way there with sea monkeys.

Ive seen places that sell contained ecosystems too, a place where shrimp-like creatures live in a contained world much like we are in earth. (Only theirs is a glass globe without any possible means of escape..)

But these creatures were not built from scratch. Life cannot simply be created from nothing. Scientific knowledge and some great philosophers granted us the knowledge to know that we are made of building blocks known as atoms, which are further made of protons, neutrons and electrons. These break down even further yet we do not have the scientific capabilities to do that yet.

Also, some believe an idea of something seems to have eternally existed yet its form is created naturally.

Living organisms are too complex to be fabricated by man and if we are to attempt such a thing i personally believe we would just get endless amounts of flaws.

 

[Woodrow]

Question- Is it known what "life" consists of?

I can not think of any explanation or valid definition as to what life is from a physical sense. Chemically and in physical composition a dead fish is identical to a live fish. I have no idea as to how life can be unless, it is because of a soul being breathed into an organism.

 

[Converse02]

Greetings Muslims.
I am an atheist and an MD. Here is my point of view:

1. Can life be created from scratch in a lab?

They say life was formed because the conditions were perfect. Is it possible to create living organisms in a lab without the aid of any building blocks from existing living creatures?

Yes, life can be created from scratch. There is no scientific reason why it cannot. With our current understanding of how life formed on Earth, it is understood that the first living thing on Earth is from scratch. There is no reason why those conditions cannot be discovered and repeated in the lab. Scientists who are saying "I don't know" are justing hedging simply because it hasn't been done yet, not because there is some scientific reason why it can't be done.

Scientists have already created synthetic chromosomes, they are only a step away from creating the first living cell from scratch. No laboratory is currently undertaking this task because there are ethical rules prohibiting it. But it is only a matter of time.

Google "synthetic biology."

2. What makes a living thing alive? Why can a dead cell not be brought back to life even though it is structurally intact? What is life?

There is no consensus in science when I graduated, but things may have changed. For example, some scientists consider viruses to be alive and others do not. I don't. (Viruses can be created from scratch in the lab, btw).

For a thing to be considered alive, it must at least have genetic material that self-replicates. Whether metabolization (makes energy) is needed is up to you. But surely, if something has the ability to self-replicate DNA and metabolize, I think it would be considered "alive." Like bacteria.

A dead cell cannot be brought back to life because it cannot metabolize and maintain homeostasis. The cell membrane breaks down. Elements from the environment seep into the cells, and the elements inside the cell seep out. The cellular machinery, proteins, has fallen apart, they are no longer in the right chemical environment and can no longer function.


Yes, we have a soul, but it's made of lots of tiny robots! - Giulio Giorelli

 

[Converse02]

i dont think life can be created in a lab. i mean im a bio major and i just recently started taking bio 101 but in the book it said that after the big bang there were pools of lifeless molecules or inorganic molecules, they became more complex and suddenly they became alive, or organic molecules....idk it just doesnt make sense to me, how can something not alive become suddenly "alive". how can we explain the complex emotional/thinking system humans have compared to animals? if we both originated from the same stuff how come animals developed the way they did and humans they way we did? how is it that we can go to the moon but fail to even create the simplest body part...say a hair follicle? if you notice medicine has no "cures" or replacements for what allah has given u in the first place they cannot recreate even the tiniest thing of a human being, all medicine does is treate ur illness and you have to stay on it for the rest of your life. i find it impossible to beleive that everything is just a huge coincedence. i forgot the saying but give someone even the tiniest bit of knowlege and he becomes an atheist and our knowlege compared to allahs knowledge is that of a drop of water in the entire ocean so well never be able to grasp his wonders.

Hello muffinman.
I am curious to what bio textbook you are using. I used Gould a long time ago. It was explained to us that genetic material can exist freely, as do proteins and bipolar lipid membranes. Imagine that genetic material finding it's way into the the bipolar lipid membrane and genetic material that making the right proteins. It's a cell. The odds of this happening are very very very small, but it is not zero. We can imagine it. Why couldn't it have happened? Why cannot life arise from non-life.

How do we go from bacteria to humans? It's a tough question, and no one figuring it out for thousands of years until 150 years ago when Darwin and Wallace, both independently wrote about it. The "scientific" theory of evolution, which as a bio major, you must realize is geological, anthropological, genetic, biological and historical fact.

See this, it pretty much summarized what I learned in my first month in AP bio years ago. Carl Sagan's Cosmos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q55z6EsL8M

At 3:13, it shows a fish/land animal. It is tiktaalik, whose fossil was not discovered when the video was made.
At 3:30, dinosaur to bird evolution...confirmed more and more as we speak.
At 5:20, hominid to human evolution, something Darwin predicted, as hominid fossil were not known/rare in his time.

We can create body parts. I went to a lecture with researchers presenting on stem cell research. They can make heart muscle that contracts, nerves, skin, gut, and so on. We can make hair follicles with current cloning and regeneration tech. Think of the possibilities in medicine if more research can be done in this area. Unfortunately, it is religious objections that are hindering this type of research. The researcher try to get around it using mouse stem cells.

 

[Zamtsa]

I am not referring to cloning or reproduction etc. I mean in the literal sense.

I have 2 questions to which I know the answers through Islam but I would like to know the Scientific point of view too:

1. Can life be created from scratch in a lab?

They say life was formed because the conditions were perfect. Is it possible to create living organisms in a lab without the aid of any building blocks from existing living creatures?

2. What makes a living thing alive? Why can a dead cell not be brought back to life even though it is structurally intact? What is life?

Just a couple of interesting questions that occurred to me recently

Salam

1. Although there are human being(Allah's creature) said this and that, Allahu Ta'ala give life, then it lives, even people who do Haram things in Allah sight, Allahu Ta'ala still give him their life, that's because as Rasulullah said "Every alive things which Allah had destined to appear will be created by Him before Day of Judgement(Adabuz Zifaf by syaikh Nashir Al Albaani.

2. The answer for number 1, because no one could raise dead people but AlMasih Rasulullah Iisa Ibn Maryam from Allahu Tabaraka Ta'ala's Mukjizat, and other prophets. Even getting the soul back to the dying human being they couldn't, they only could save which Allah had destined to be save from near death, Allahu kalam:

Al Anbiya(21):91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her the spirit created by Us and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

Allahu Ta'ala condemned Atheists the super scientists by this saying:

Al Waqi'ah(56):83 Then why do ye not (intervene) when (the soul of the dying man) reaches the throat 5263
84 And ye the while (sit) looking on 5264
85 But We are nearer to him than ye and yet see not
86 Then why do you not if you are exempt from (future) account 5265
87 Call back the soul if ye are true (in your claim of Independence)? 5266


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

 

[Converse02]

Here is some news on synthetic biology. It's a new field in biology. I say creating life is only a matter of time. They said genetic engineering couldn't be done, and today we can reprogram life and DNA like a computer, it's child's play. Same with cloning. We can already create and modify life, creating life from scratch is the next step. There is no scientific, natural, physical barrier or reason as to why it cannot be done.

http://www.exduco.net/news.php?id=3233

http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/index.p...k=view&id=3276&Itemid=59&issuedate=2009-01-09

I wish I was apart of this. The first group that does it first is probably going to get the Nobel.

 

[Mr. Sandman]

Very interesting Converse02.

 

[Trumble]

There is no scientific, natural, physical barrier or reason as to why it cannot be done.

Surely you are not in position to make that statement until it has been done? :sunny:

You are probably right, though. In which case, as I said earlier, the question becomes not so much "can we?" as "should we?" Ethics, or at least reasoned ethics as opposed to knee-jerk reaction, is already struggling to keep up with developments in genetic engineering and cybernetics, let alone something like this.

 

[crayon]

Yes, life can be created from scratch.

(Viruses can be created from scratch in the lab, btw)

When you say "scratch", I'm assuming you don't literally mean "scratch"...?:? Scientists used things that previously existed (different elements, etc.) to create the virus. They used different things that already existed and just put them together. They didn't just make it appear out of thin air (which technically contains tons of gases, but you get the idea).

 

[Gator]

yes, I think he means using previously existing unliving matter to create something living.

 

[Chuck]

Here is some news on synthetic biology. It's a new field in biology. I say creating life is only a matter of time. They said genetic engineering couldn't be done, and today we can reprogram life and DNA like a computer, it's child's play. Same with cloning. We can already create and modify life, creating life from scratch is the next step. There is no scientific, natural, physical barrier or reason as to why it cannot be done.

http://www.exduco.net/news.php?id=3233

http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/index.p...k=view&id=3276&Itemid=59&issuedate=2009-01-09

I wish I was apart of this. The first group that does it first is probably going to get the Nobel.

That is replication not creation. Science explores how but not why.

Good article here:

But then they would have to find a law to explain where the law came from . . . and ultimately an explanation of why the universe is mathematical and of where mathematics came from and what numbers are.

Like a petulant 8-year-old, we keep asking why, why, why, why. In the end, the answer is either ''just because'' or ''for God made it so.'' Take your pick.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...932A25752C1A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

 

[Hamayun]

When you say "scratch", I'm assuming you don't literally mean "scratch"...?:? Scientists used things that previously existed (different elements, etc.) to create the virus. They used different things that already existed and just put them together. They didn't just make it appear out of thin air (which technically contains tons of gases, but you get the idea).

Technically thin air consists of living bacteria, viruses etc so thin air is not an option either.

I meant creating a living organism using no organic matter.

Since the universe and all living things apparently started from gases that is what I meant. Without using any organic matter.