Shalom (Peace) Ansar Al-‘Adl, a few things which I desire to address in this post.
Sure, bring forward such evidence or research and then we can reevaluate his conclusions.
I do not think that you understood the premise of the first paragraph of my post. Here is what I wrote:
I understand that, and if I ever have enough free time I will look into reading the book, but your post said the following: “ First, let me just point out that we should be referring to scholarly, academic sources that provide the references and research for all conclusions.” All I did, was point out to you, that we could very well refer to scholarly, academic sources from the scholarly academia such as Gabriel Sawma that have presented research backing their opinions regarding the Quran. They’re research and conclusions although you may deny it are not of the intention of “debunking” Islam, but instead wish to study the origins of a book which so many revere. If such overwhelming evidence was provided in books which proved his arguments utterly wrong… if such “refutations” were existent than I see no reason why he would not reevaluate his positions regarding the origins and the development of the Quran. Do you think the intentions of the academia are suspect because I would not want to quote a book which has an agenda, so if any author I ask you about is suspect in his intention, I would love to know this before I read to much into their material.
If you re-read the above, you will see that I was not speaking of reevaluating the conclusions of M. M. Azami. What I spoke about is that the conclusions that M. M. Azami draws in his books were so significant and clearly refuted any other theory on the origin and development to shreds. Than the scholarly academic community, would not continue to rely and structure theories; that were so easy to refute. If such “refutations” which you claim are available were existent and essentially (as your claiming) debunked every single theory the academic community holds (that contradicts Islamic beliefs about the Quran’s development), than I see no reason why the academic community would not reevaluate their positions on the Quran.
I said 'prayers in Judaism can be done in any language (as noted in the Talmud)'
I understand what you said Ansar, the problem is that it is a fictional statement. All prayers cannot be done in any language noted in the Talmud. In the Talmud, you will find that there are specific prayers that must be said in Hebrew, the language of the Torah. So therefore, yes some prayers may be said in English or any language, but it is false to say that all prayers can be said in these languages. Specific prayers can only be said in Hebrew and this is said in the Talmud.
So if it is NOT a tradition in Judaism, then why make the parallel where it does not exist?
The practice of children memorizing verses of the Torah is not a tradition within Judaism. However the parallel exists for this reason: In
every generation the Torah has been memorized by Rabbi’s and
Talmidei Chachamim (Knowledgable Torah scholars). I am sure many more Muslim children can be found, and no one is denying that, however, in every generation we have had Jews memorize the Torah from Jewish communities that range from Yemen, Iran, Israel, France, Morocco, Russia, Lithuania, and Germany. The practice still remains although it is no longer as wide spread in our day because the ease of printing the text of the Torah. I can refer to you books (in Hebrew) that tell stories of thousands of our beloved Rabbis and their disciples in Europe who memorized the Torah because of fear that the Germans would burn every Torah and Judaism would cease to exist. The above has no part in the actual topic we are discussing; I am just correcting misstatements about Judaism that you hold.
Yes. Everything I am mentioning is based on the summation of all the references from the Ahadith which are quoted in detail in Azami's book. The issue was the possibility of future confusion and that could be due to the two things I mentioned in my quote.
Could you at least summarize Azami’s positions on a few of the topics, or at least provide the references to certain Hadith that he cites in his book, so I could look them up?
A red herring. It makes absolutely no difference whether you agree or not with what the Rabbi said, the point is that it is considered the appropriate practice by Muslims and evidently Jews as well, though not all of them. If this was just an FYI you were providing on Judaism, then let's leave that to the comparative religion section please.
Not a red herring I am afraid. It is not “I” who agree or disagree, it is how the Rabbi formed the conclusion that you can ever burn a holy object like a Torah scroll. It says without doubt or need for interpretation in the Talmud (source: Moed Kattan 26a) that you may not burn a Torah scroll, or any book with Torah in it, and if you see one burning you must immediately tear your clothes (a practice associated with mourning). I was not the one that brought up the practice of burning holy objects in Judaism, you were. So therefore, I felt the need to correct a statement made by you and a Rabbi that this practice is allowed, or even tolerated within Judaism when the opinion on Judaism that you quoted is one that utterly disagrees with what the Talmud says on the matter.
That would be what I said on this point:
Suffice it to say that the presence of the teachers alongside each official copy, the ubiquitious recitation and memorization amongst muslims, and the countless other copies available for cross checking are the very reasons why even the slightest scribal error is immediately and outright rejected by the Muslim populace.
...
It would only be a case in point if an error had gone unnoticed and resulted in a variant text amongst Muslims. But Muslims have forever been united on one text free of variants and even the slightest mistake could be recognized and rejected even by a child.
If that is the summary of what his argument is in his book than let me ask you this:
1. What Hadith does he quote to support the notion of “ubiquitous” recitation and memorization amongst Muslims at this time with the “countless” copies available for cross checking, when the Quran was first being compiled?
2. Do you have a scanner where you could possibly scan and send to me the pages that deal with this issue that he “refutes” and the references to the Hadith that he provides?
The narration says that in later times when Ibn Mas'ood was in Syria an intoxicated man came up to him and challenged this famous companion on a verse of the Qur'an he recited which clearly blew his cover and they realized he was drunk and for that he was punished.
Well I have a few questions now: What Hadith can I find which say this could never have happened again; i.e. some random person saying he heard a verse. What Hadith can I find says that every verse had a text reference written down on a paper of some type and this was a requirement?
Islam entails following what was revealed by Allah in the Qur'an, as it was explained by the Prophet and understood by his companions who were the direct recipients of the message. I am fully confident that a convert who researches the issue themselves will be able to see the correct path of following Islam. If you want to know the sectarian differences, as I said before it takes more than just a brisk answer so please visit the sectarian section.
I’m afraid so many people have drawn conclusions from the Quran and created their own “sects” and the fact that holy books to one side are labeled forgeries by other sides, reveal that it is indeed not that simple.
A red herring once again. Irrespective of your beliefs on salvation, the truths of Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive (eg. trinity, vicarious atonement, etc.) and hence an answer as to which beliefs are veracious entails a much more involved discussion than a brisk answer.
Judaism and Christianity are not of the same religions. The two religions are much more different than the Sunni-Shiite dispute, so therefore again I say that your correlation is erroneous. Judaism believes all do not have to convert to it, while Islam makes the claim that the entire world must “submit” to the teachings of Mohammad. Therefore, what Judaism believes in respect to Christianity is something entirely different. The only reason such a topic was even brought up, is to show that a group of Muslims, which make up over one hundred million, believe in something completely different than you do, so it may be “a red herring” in your opinion, but to me, it is an honest inquiry of mine.
If the references are in Sahih Bukhari you can look them up in the commentary of Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani here:
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...=1&doc=0#Desc1
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
And you know how I love to help. 
