Cartoons worse than murder??

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But I don't write about opinions of "wise men".
These scholars I quote from represent the leaders in the Muslim community and have the support of the Muslims. So these condemnations have the weight of the full Muslim community.

If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.
 
But in Eurrope newspapers are indenpendent and goverment can do nothing. So blaming european goverments has no sense. It is like blaming car manufacturer because of accident caused by too high speed on city street.
 
But in Eurrope newspapers are indenpendent and goverment can do nothing. So blaming european goverments has no sense.
This is a fair point to raise in response but Muslims who protested did so because they felt that the government should do something. Especially since the prime minister initially refused to meet Muslim diplomats to discuss the potential outrage that would arise from it, but only after pressure increased from protests and the boycotts did he meet with them. The Muslims who protested did so because they felt that this was inciting hatred which should be stopped by the government.

Regards
 
So goverments in muslim countries and muslim clerics should say that in Europe goverment can do absolutely nothing. And even if politicals don't want to meet with protesters they do it because newspapers are indenpendent and they can't interfere in that kind of things.

Also look.
Hamas won in Palestine.
Iran wants to build nuclear weapon and Europe wanted to not interfere. Why? Because for Europe it is better to have counterweight for Israel in that part of world. And suddenly someone takes old pictures printed by small newspaper 4 months ago and makes big conflict between Europe and muslims. Now it is very probably that Europe will be against Iran and will not stop USA or Israeli attack on Iran.
So who is the winner?
Lets be honest. Muslims ware acting stupid because they are doing what Israel wanted. They made conflict with Europe and now there is almost no hope to avoid conlict with Iran. Europe was supporting Iran (that was "back door support").
Israel played the music and muslims are dancing now just like Jews wanted.
Conflict with Europe - no european support for Iran - Israeli bombers are ready to action.
You should stop this stupid disturbance and try to improve relations with Europe. Can't You see that You were tricked? You are acting against yourselfes! Stop this conflict because Israel and USA are the only winners here!
 
Also look.
Hamas won in Palestine.
Iran wants to build nuclear weapon and Europe wanted to not interfere. Why? Because for Europe it is better to have counterweight for Israel in that part of world. And suddenly someone takes old pictures printed by small newspaper 4 months ago and makes big conflict between Europe and muslims. Now it is very probably that Europe will be against Iran and will not stop USA or Israeli attack on Iran.
So who is the winner?
Lets be honest. Muslims ware acting stupid because they are doing what Israel wanted. They made conflict with Europe and now there is almost no hope to avoid conlict with Iran. Europe was supporting Iran (that was "back door support").
Israel played the music and muslims are dancing now just like Jews wanted.
Conflict with Europe - no european support for Iran - Israeli bombers are ready to action.
You should stop this stupid disturbance and try to improve relations with Europe. Can't You see that You were tricked? You are acting against yourselfes! Stop this conflict because Israel and USA are the only winners here!

How's does this relate to the US? I live in the US, and believe me the last thing this country needs is another war. Even if we did, our troop levels are already low, and it wouldn't make any sense militarily to want a war with Iran, now. This cartoon thing is a European issue, the US didn't tell the danish or any other country to publish those cartoons. I don't think Israel did either. I think you're being a bit paranoid.:?
 
Assalamu Alaikum

This is for everyone to read.



I dont know how people can believe everything they hear on the news, or read on the internet an papers, me personally i havent heard any stories about americans raping muslims, let alone thousand of rapings. A lot of American Muslims are serving today in the U S Military and i'm one of them.

There is a lot of stories going around about Americans soldiers doing horrible things in Iraq and every where they go i cannot disprove every story you hear about but people have to understand that when stories go around they tend to get twisted, a story goes around about one person getting shot when that stories get to the tenth person telling it the number of dead is going from one to ten.

My point is that the media twist things to make it seem a lot worser than it really is.

Every one is saying that american soldiers are killing so many innocent Iraqis, it true that innocent people died as the result of Us military engagement with terrorist forces in Iraq but the majority of innocent death in Iraq I can safely say that it the directly result of Terrorist actions. And its sad to see these terrorist make videos and claims that their actions is for the better good of islam and that they are fighting for all muslims.

Islam is a peaceful religion and teaches peace insted of violence, and yet every on sit by and completely ignore the fact that theses people calaming to be muslim paints a bad pictur for all muslim. They bring shame to all muslims all around the world.

I'm one HUNDRED percent againt the drawings of The Prophet (Mohammed) Peace be upon him, as a terrorist. and i think something needs to be done but i dont think making threats and writing posters saying Destroy ppl talking bad or making fun of Islam, is the best approach to the problem, creating violents protest and destroying property is not doing any good it just bringing a bad name to Islam and Muslims everywhere.


How's does this relate to the US? I live in the US, and believe me the last thing this country needs is another war. Even if we did, our troop levels are already low, and it wouldn't make any sense militarily to want a war with Iran, now. This cartoon thing is a European issue, the US didn't tell the danish or any other country to publish those cartoons. I don't think Israel did either. I think you're being a bit paranoid.:?

As far as Iran and the us military or any country including Isreal wanting to war with Iran i really dont think its going to happen, Iran provoke Isreal concern when the statement that Isreal should be wipe of the face of the earth. Islam teaches tollerance for other religion and different culture so making a statement like that and not appolizing for it even to Isreal is against every Islam stands for. The us doesnt need another war not with Iran or anyone else. it really doesnt make sence. the only reason why every one is so concern about Iran nuclear program is because there is doubt on the true purpose of their nuclear program. Dont you think is a cause to be worry when a country leader say another country should be wipe of the map and then start up its nucler program. let just say for the sake of arguement that Iran do develop weapons and used it against Isreal what gonna happen to Palestine has anyone thought about that.

Look as far as the cartoon goes it wrong and insulting to Islam and Muslim but in times like this where people believe the media and see terrorist actions a generalize it as the actions of all Muslims, we need to go about sloving the problem a different way instead of doing what false media broadcast has lead everyone to expect of Mulisms. We need people to step up and show the true and peaceful teachings of Islam.


P.S If i've offended anyone i did't mean to.:)

Peace
 
So goverments in muslim countries and muslim clerics should say that in Europe goverment can do absolutely nothing.
They can do something; they can take steps to combat hatred in society and work to integrate minority groups as opposed to allowing them to become the targets of slander.

Muslims are protesting because they feel that the governments can and should do something.
 
First of all, I'm not really convinced there was any rape of thousands. But there are Muslim Americans serving in the American army. Was it any of them doing the so-called raping?

I suspect whatever story you heard or read had something like "Non-Muslim US Soldiers rape thousands" is that what I am to believe?

Oh and by the way, I only bring up Michael Jackson because he is a pop singer. I'm not really a fan of his music or anytthing. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of him, but I know of him.

Do you like Michael Jackson?
Salaam,

Are you really going to say that rape cannot occur because they are American soldiers who may be doing the raping? Especially after that incident that happened with the woman soldier (and men as well)? She was found guilty of torturing (and rape) of p.o.w's. It's possible. I understand wanting to know details but to be skeptical about it just because it is reported by a muslimah... come on, then you couldn't believe anything anyone had to say anywhere. Media has an agenda too. All the stuff about "the big bad muslim" isn't true, but alot of people seem to listen. Are you one of them, sir?
Michael Jackson is a talented musician... I won't make any comments on his personal life;D .
 
If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.

I disagree. There are demonstrations against/for private corporations, idealogues and even people! Look at the Michael Jackson trial, the Enron scandal, and gay marriage rallies in Canada for examples.

I think Muslim demonstrations against terror are EXACTLY what is needed. They make good news reel, and in Western society, our Muslim population direly needs good media exposure.
 
Salaam

I see where your coming from sis, The ummah have been a sleep till know, our beloved prophet(pbuh) has been insulted, may allah make this driving force for the ummah to unite.

you said it brother, Allah akbar
who else will unite for the cause to unify the ummah?
 
These scholars I quote from represent the leaders in the Muslim community and have the support of the Muslims. So these condemnations have the weight of the full Muslim community.

If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.

I suspect the Muslim community is a lot more divided that you give it credit for. I doubt that there has ever been a gathering of scholars that represents all Muslims since, well, Ali's death perhaps? But that is not really important. I doubt any mainstream Islamic leader supports such attacks.

What is important is to point out that when the Iraqi terrorists blew up a hotel in Jordan, people did come out on the streets and protested. Those terrorists were not acting on behalf of any government. They were not under the authority of any government. But the Sunni Jordanians felt a need to express their outrage at an act by Sunnis (under the command of a Jordanian) that killed Sunnis. Why did it make sense to them to do that?
 
Hello pegcityone,
Welcome to Load-Islam.
I disagree. There are demonstrations against/for private corporations, idealogues and even people! Look at the Michael Jackson trial, the Enron scandal, and gay marriage rallies in Canada for examples.
These are all examples of putting pressure on governments or corporations. Neither applies in the Muslim demonstrations you suggest. Muslims already have gatherings in western countries of tens of thousands of attendees where the religious leaders condemn these terrorist actions, yet these events recieve no media coverage. Why would demonstartions be any different?

Hello HeiGou,
I suspect the Muslim community is a lot more divided that you give it credit for.
Since you are not part of the Muslim community, your conjecture in this matter is meaningless. Read the links I provided and you will find out exactly who those people who are voicing condemnations.
But the Sunni Jordanians felt a need to express their outrage at an act by Sunnis (under the command of a Jordanian) that killed Sunnis. Why did it make sense to them to do that?
The demonstration represents the sentiments of the Jordanian people.

But as I've explained earlier, demonstrations have more significance when they are done to put pressure on governments or corporations.
Regards
 
The demonstration represents the sentiments of the Jordanian people.

But as I've explained earlier, demonstrations have more significance when they are done to put pressure on governments or corporations.
Regards

Sure. The Jordanians were opposed to attacks on Sunni Muslims in Jordan. And they protested. I agree demostrations have more significance when directed at governments, but they are sometimes directed at organisations and they are not meaningless when they happen.

It is just a shame more Jordanians did not protest earlier.
 
IMO this whole episode with the Mohammad cartoons is the best thing to happen to the West in many years. It's brought into sharp focus the differences between the cultures. Freedom of speak and freedom of the press are cornerstones of the Free World. For me the most amazing element is not the Muslim reaction but the West's reaction. This has been stronger and more resolute than I would have imagined. There's nothing like an attack on fundamental beliefs to make one question those beliefs; and ultimately come out at the other end with a stronger conviction. This is also coming after the riots in France - hopefully Europe will connect the dots and see the bigger picture here.

The other interesting point with these cartoons is that it's getting more and
more difficult to dismiss the violence carried out by Muslims as the results of religious extremists. The violence and threats are so widespread that it's difficult to come to any other conclusion other than there is a significant
proportion (say ~35%) of Muslims who would at the very least support violence in the name of Islam. And there is another smaller proportion (~say 5%) that's willing to carry out violent acts in the name of Islam.

Any thoughts?
 
Freedom of speak and freedom of the press are cornerstones of the Free World.

This is also coming after the riots in France - hopefully Europe will connect the dots and see the bigger picture here.

The other interesting point with these cartoons is that it's getting more and
more difficult to dismiss the violence carried out by Muslims as the results of religious extremists.


Any thoughts?

my thoughts are:
it is becoming increasingly obvious a 'multicultural society' is not for everyone.

when people come to a new culture, they are often victimised due to the ignorance of the 'natives'

..the natives see no reason to change their ways because some new people arrive, just as one would not wish to repaint ones kitchen because a houseguest doesn't like the colour.

I know for sure in the UK many asians, africans, even other europeans are treated like dirt simply for being from somewhere else, for being different, because the british feel they are having to change to accomodate the new arrivals and are bitter about this.

More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve. Unless someone thinks of something soon, it's all going to go very wrong indeed.

Personally, I am terrified, and am looking for new ways to colonize the moon!
 
I would prefer to think that the integration of cultures, as such in Britain today, would be more analagous to the re-aranging of the pots and the kettles, and a certain amout of the pot calling the kettle black is quite understandable.
I fear though that the muslim need for non integration with the locals doesnt help for a harmonious "boiling pot" of cultures.
 
"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken
 
"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken


I really like that because thats exactly like a strong muslim believer does. :)


A quote from a famous scholar:


"What can my enemies do to me?

I have my paradise and my garden in my heart, wherever I journey it's there with me, never depart from me.

My imprisonment is seclusion,

my murder is martyrdom

and my expulsion from my homeland is tourism."

(Shaykh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah, Raheematullah)


And most importantly, in the Qur'an:

Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what God has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on God let the Believers put their trust. Say: "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that God will send his punishment from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you." (Qur'an 9:49-52)



Peace.
 
"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken

I think similar, whcih is why I object to people wanting to make MY society change for newcomers (my govt is the ones who do this, it creates contempt)

(is there a mosque in Portland btw? I lived there a while years ago and never saw one)
 

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