Christian woman murdered in Afghanistan

[Woodrow]

The Taliban have admitted responsibility for it Woody, They are proud of what they have done. Organisation wise they are roughly 40000 strong with millions and millions of quids of aid coming from all over the muslim world and the very best in Organised terror working for them. To say they cant organise a simple drive by shooting in a country stuffed with guns against an unarmed target is a bit naive me old mate.

I admit you are making a good point. I just have difficulty in accepting that any Muslim would deliberately commit such an act with planning and knowledge.

This horrible act violates nearly everything we believe in. It is as much an atrocity against Islam as it is against the woman.

 

[Keltoi]

Here is a little good news as far as abductions go...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_re_as/as_afghan_american_hostage

 

[barney]

)

in one thread he says taliban were so crap that they could not fight for toffee, in another thread they are sophisticated planners with backing from all over the Muslim world

Murdering isnt fighting.Thats why the actual battle casulties are so asymmetrical.


As for money, Millions are needed, not billions. Just enough to keep them in bread and bullets.

@ woody, Yup I imagine that its hard. It wouldnt be that easy to beleive that a british soldier would deliberatly shoot an innocent, yet i imagine that it will have happened more than once in the last 7 years.

 

[doorster]

Murdering isnt fighting.Thats why the actual battle casulties are so asymmetrical.


As for money, Millions are needed, not billions. Just enough to keep them in bread and bullets.

if you knew any thing about anything you would know that in all the lawless areas of NW. frontier and afghanistan, making of small arms and ammo making has been a cottage industry ever since I could remember. banditry and kidnaping raids (even deep inside Pakistan) has been their profession. that is the only way they have ever known even when my dad was a child in 1930s and 40s.

the sooner the numpties and liars in London and Washington admit that they've taken on gangs of thugs (only weaker than themselves) the better and that they actually NEED to be in Afghanistan for other reasons, instead of the pretence that some militant Islamic force is being fought.

 

[barney]

If your assuming that I think the Taliban are some sort of centrally controlled organised force with letterheaded paper and a formal command structure, then you are mistaken.

The Taliban used to have nominal control and indeed had a central core, but was and always will be a collection of warlords and militias loyal to tribe over anything other than faith.
The Talibans interpretation of Islam is why they act the way they do. Not their interpretation of Zen Bhuddism or their interpretation of the latest Bond Movie. They are killing Christians and attacking NGO's for "preaching their faith". Thats it , pure and simple.
Do they represent the muslim ummah? No , I dont think they do. Are they supported by this "no muslim can do something wrong, unless its against another muslim" attitude, then they probably are.

As an Agnostic, I find it very easy to acknowlage that Christian Serbs could commit the hidious crimes I saw in Kosovo. Except when I went there I was a CofE "Christian".
I simply assumed that they hadnt understood the "Message of christianity" (TM Copyright Augustine 334AD)

As per bullet factories, i think you'll find that the ancient art of blackpowder which the afgans were so fond of to fuel their Jezzailarchs, require a different setup to produce the 7.62X39mmSR's for their AKM's. They also receive modern plastique explosives and shaped charges, and relitively sophisticated IED's. Thei RPG warheads are iranian manaufacture, etc etc etc.
What are you saying then? The taliban dont exist and if they did they receive no support?

 

[doorster]

They also receive modern plastique explosives and shaped charges, and relitively sophisticated IED's. Thei RPG warheads are iranian manaufacture, etc etc etc.

forgot about Iran, you reminded of the time when America sent Pakistan some stingers to use against soviet gunships, the real taliban stole around a dozen or so and took them to Iran who promptly opened them up and created exact working copies, same thing Afghans and pathans of lawless areas were doing with half burnt vehicles by scavenging parts from many, they don't just make pistols and rifles but also light artillery pieces.

I've been out of Pakistan for more than 3 years now so cant exactly say what the bandits can or can not still make (then they were masters of replicating anything they could lay their hands on)

I don't know much about plastic explosives but would not put it past Iran or anyone else selling it to them. it is in Iran's interests to cause as much trouble for Pakistan as it possibly can. selling and buying and profit are the key words.

What are you saying then? The taliban dont exist

yes! Taliban were students (whose parent could not afford to keep them) in Pakistani madrasahs. they were originally like budhist monks in the sense that they were studying/praying then going out begging charity.

Then when Soviets took over, America did not like that, Pakistan did not care for it much either but could not afford to fight openly, america was not too keen on it either.

so the students were indoctrinated, were taught to hate soviets by teachers who were quickly trained by Saudis, madrasahs were given American money via Saudis, instead of going out begging they were taught to fire small arms.

They were sent to Afghanistan to make a lot of noise to distract Russians while Pakistani commandos and CIA got on with the real tasks like killing Soviets. and all the credit was duly given to students who were made to believe that they were actually being helped by supernatural forces

then soviets left, union broke up, taliban were invited to Washington to negotiate access rights for America to carry gas/ oil from former soviet countries. students' leaders wanted better terms believing that they were invincible and the rest is history

 

[seeker-of-light]

it is a shame that these people who call themselves muslims and yet are farthest from it continue to make the rest of us look bad to most of the world=x

 

[maryam87]

ok before everyone starts blaming those who killed her maybe u should do a search about christian missionaries in Iraq and Afghanistan
They basically believe that God has now gave them the opportunity to preach their religion. Now normally i wouldnt mind this they have a right to preach and so do we but when they go in war torn countries and work on the orphans but giving them false love and dreams on the same time have a hidden agenda to convert them thats extremely sad and low

Alot of militants have seen this happening therefore to them the missionaries have commited a crime worse than murder, they are killing their children by converting them to christians

Plz dont get me wrong im not saying it was correct for him to kill her but being a muslim i understand his anger. This happened even during the Bosnian war, a friend was telling me they took and feed the orphans and raised them as christians and made em forget their true identity, arent they killing the kids that way?

 

[The_Prince]

every one would be FOOLING themselves if they think that she nor her Christian group were not preaching on these little children. they tell them God loves you, he came for you, died for you etc etc they do these things to these ppl until they brainwash and manipulate them.

you see these missionaries are deceptive, when they say were not preaching they are trying to be technical, yes were not preaching and saying accept Jesus etc etc but they are trying to convert the ppl in other deceptive ways such as saying God died for you, he loves you bla bla bla that to them is not preaching.

also dont forget that Paul gave missionaries the way on how to convert:

1 Corinthians chapter 9 verses 19-22:



19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

as you can see deception is the key to gain the people. so lets not kid ourselves and say oh these ppl arent trying to convert the people.

 

[Keltoi]

I wondered how long it would take for the justifications for murder to appear...

 

[roohani.doctor]

there are NO justifications for murder, one man's or one group's or even one nation's acts dont define islam, they never have and they never will....

 

[Thinker]

I was asked about my motives for posting this question and gave them including the line . . . And, yes, I although I expect all of you here would condemn the killing I wondered if any of you might suggest that because there was a suggestion (denied) that the woman was promoting Christianity this might have been somehow mitigated the actions of the killers.

The question is: if the woman was promoting Christianity does that mitigate the actions of the killers?

Two members have posted messages (above) have answered that question one who said . . . . to them (the killers) the missionaries have committed a crime worse than murder, they are killing their children by converting them to Christians thus inferring that their actions in killing the woman might be justified.

If that is the case i.e. it is justifiable for someone to be murdered or punished in any way for attempting to convert a Muslim to Christianity would it be justifiable for someone to kill a Muslim attempting to convert a Christian?

What does the Qur’an / hadith say on the subject; does Islam teach that it’s 'OK for the goose but not for the gander’?

 

[doorster]

I was asked about my motives for posting this question and gave them including the line . . . And, yes, I although I expect all of you here would condemn the killing I wondered if any of you might suggest that because there was a suggestion (denied) that the woman was promoting Christianity this might have been somehow mitigated the actions of the killers.

The question is: if the woman was promoting Christianity does that mitigate the actions of the killers?

Two members have posted messages (above) have answered that question one who said . . . . to them (the killers) the missionaries have committed a crime worse than murder, they are killing their children by converting them to Christians thus inferring that their actions in killing the woman might be justified.

If that is the case i.e. it is justifiable for someone to be murdered or punished in any way for attempting to convert a Muslim to Christianity would it be justifiable for someone to kill a Muslim attempting to convert a Christian?

I was thinking of asking exactly that but decided to wait for someone else to notice it first.

What does the Qur’an / hadith say on the subject; does Islam teach that it’s 'OK for the goose but not for the gander’?

I want to know this too, since I believe that no person born a Muslim who knows his religion will apostate.

regarding the matter of orphans being coerced in to Christianity, I say if its in their qadr to die Muslim, they will come back, first thing is to save them from death any which way we can (even if it is with help from Catholics)

 

[aamirsaab]

....
If that is the case i.e. it is justifiable for someone to be murdered or punished in any way for attempting to convert a Muslim to Christianity would it be justifiable for someone to kill a Muslim attempting to convert a Christian

What does the Qur’an / hadith say on the subject; does Islam teach that it’s 'OK for the goose but not for the gander’??

Apostacy has been covered countless times. Please use the search function or better yet view any of my posts on the matter.

 

[Thinker]

Apostacy has been covered countless times. Please use the search function or better yet view any of my posts on the matter.

I don't think I was asking about Apostacy, perhaps I didn't exlain myself properly?

Hmm . . . . I have re-read my post I am talking about the person who does the converting not the person who converts.

 

[suffiyan007]

that's why people think that islam is terrorist.....!stupidity...that a muslim killed a christian woman...she is innocent...!

 

[aamirsaab]

I don't think I was asking about Apostacy, perhaps I didn't exlain myself properly?

Hmm . . . . I have re-read my post I am talking about the person who does the converting not the person who converts.

Oh my mistake. In that case, there is nothing (that I have read at least) in the Quran or Hadith that would allow that to occur.