Christianity dying out?

[wth1257]

When our family did the census (2001, before I was Muslim), we just put down 'C of E', despite being completely atheist.

Church of England?

 

[Aqeel Ahmed]

No it is not a church it is a procedure aquiring and recording members of a given population which could be any religion, race , belief or even colour. Aqeel

 

[wth1257]

No it is not a church it is a procedure aquiring and recording members of a given population which could be any religion, race , belief or even colour. Aqeel

I'm sorry?

 

[Aqeel Ahmed]

Here's a simple version with my own words: it basically is a system that records , people of a specific religion, race or belief.

 

[Trumble]

I think that we shouldnt trust those who say that Europe's predescination is atheism.

I would agree with that. In my experience many more 'believe' in some sort of God, or are agnostic rather than atheist, than was the case twenty years ago. What is falling away is belief as presented by traditional Christian doctrines, and associated practice. Europe is actually ripe for and would be very receptive to a 'new' theism of some sort. I'm not sure if Islam might fill that gap or not. I suspect 'not' in general terms, although it might for not inconsiderable numbers.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I believe that the death, or transformation if you prefer, of religion in the west is in a large part the result of democracy and technology. Multiculturalism, modernity, science, all work against traditional black and white dogmatic religion and pushes us towards more all encompassing, liberal religious views. Thats what I think anyway. When people are faced with more cultures and philosophies and are less insular I think individuality and coming up with your own views rather than adopting those of your parents or community becomes more common, and the more people do that the even more varied the marketplace of ideas becomes. I think this is also why many hardcore sects like quakers etc keep to themselves.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Most people say this, but I seriously doubt that religion is that strong in the US. The world's biggest porn industry is there after all, that should tell us something, lol..

I would be happy if one of our American friends could clarify this issue. Are most Americans as religious as people in the rest of the world think they are? Then what's up with all this materialism, capitalism and hedonism.. how religious is that??

More than four out of five adults (83%) pray during a typical week.

In terms of raw numbers, on any given Sunday you will 141,000,000 American in church. Many people think that sports and movies dominate American culture, but this figure is many times over the total of all the people you would find at attending every pro sports game, all of the college and high school sports, and every movied at every theater from the entire week. So, while it doesn't get the press of these other aspects of our daily life, religion still dominates our culture much more than it is given credit for. But honesty requires me to say that a large number of those attending are little more than pew warmers.


The United States is anything but a united state with regard to the practice of religion. Nearly 90% of people say that they believe in God. And over half of the people still report to surveyers that they attended church last week. But most pastors will tell you that what they are used to seeing is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the membership in church on any given Sunday.

Attendance is best in the south and at it's worst in the northeast and Pacific northwest.


George Barna is always doing surveys of the religion life in America and he provides some intersting numbers:

In 2000, it was reported 70 percent of Americans experienced and expressed their faith through their local church, 5 percent through alternative faith-based communities, 5 percent through their families, and 20 percent through media, arts and culture.

Percentage of adults nationwide who have attended a church service in the past seven days not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral. 2004-43%
2002-43%
2001-42%
2000-40%
1997-43%
1996-37%
1992-47%
1991-49%

47% of American adults attend church in a typical weekend, not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral.

62% of Republicans attended church in a typical weekend compared to 47% of Democrats. (2006)

Nationally, four out of every ten adults is a born again Christian**. But there is a wide range of incidence levels related to the location of born again adults. For instance, the market with the largest percentage of its adults classified as born again -- by a large margin -- is Jackson, Mississippi, where 83% of adults meet the criteria. There are ten markets in which at least six out of every ten adults are born again -- and each of them is located in the South.

(**You need to know what Barna means by a "born again Christian". This is someone who self-identifies as having had a life changing experience with Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal savior. But they don't necessarily have to live that out, and there are also persons who would call themselves Christian that don't like to use the term "born again".)

There were also six out of the 86 markets studied that had fewer than 25% of the adult public satisfying the born again standard. The lowest of those were Boston (21%), Providence (21%) and New York (22%). Of the six lowest-ranked markets, five are in the Northeast.

The market with the greatest number of individuals who are born again was, once again, the City of Angels (Los Angeles) with 3.6 million born again believers in the metro area.

Just 3 of the nation's 25 largest metropolitan areas have a born again majority. However, 15 of the 27 mid-sized markets (adult population of a half-million up to one million) have a born again majority.

Adults are most likely to claim they have a responsibility to share their religious beliefs with other people if they live in Birmingham, Alabama. That perspective is least common in Providence and Green Bay.

Believing that God is "the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe who still rules it today" is most common in Tulsa. It is least predominant in Boston and San Francisco.

One out of every six residents of Massachusetts, Connecticut and Washington are atheist or agnostic – nearly double the national average. Atheists and agnostics are hardest to locate in Louisiana and Missouri.

In the last four years, there has been a rise in the proportion of adults who read the Bible.

Christians spend seven times as much time on entertainment as they do on spiritual activities.

Although 2/3 of all teenagers say they know all the basic teachings... of the Christian faith, 2/3 reject the existence of Satan, 3/5 reject the existence of the Holy Spirit, and 1/2 believe that Jesus sinned.

Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks just sixth among the 21 life goals tested, trailing such desires as 'living a comfortable lifestyle.'

A minority of born again adults (44%) and an even smaller proportion of born again teenagers (9%) are certain of the existence of absolute moral truth.

Of the ten moral behaviors evaluated, a majority of Americans believed that each of three activities were 'morally acceptable.' Those included gambling (61%), co-habitation (60%), and sexual fantasies (59%). Nearly half of the adult population felt that two other behaviors were morally acceptable: having an abortion (45%) and having a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex other than their spouse (42%). About one-third of the population gave the stamp of approval to pornography (38%), profanity (36%), drunkenness (35%) and homosexual sex (30%). The activity that garnered the least support was using non-prescription drugs (17%). ...Less than one out of every ten evangelical Christians maintained that adultery, gay sex, pornography, profanity, drunkenness and abortion are morally acceptable."


More than half of those who attend a Christian church (56%) say that they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, and another 33% say that they are moderately committed. (2007)
Commitment to the Christian faith changes considerably with age. Of those who attend church, only 32% of Mosaics say they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, compared to 48% of Busters, 61% of Boomers and 68% of Elders. (2006)


There has been a 92% increase in the number of unchurched Americans in the last thirteen years. In 1991 there were 39 million unchurched Americans compared with 75 million currently. (2004)

More than three out of five (62%) unchurched adults consider themselves to be Christian. (2006)

8% of the population are evangelicals (2007) Of the five faith segments (evangelicals, non-evangelical born again Christians, notional Christians, adherents of non-Christian faiths, and atheists/agnostics), evangelicals were the most likely to do each of the following:

• discuss spiritual matters with other people.
• volunteer at a church or non-profit organization.
• discuss political matters with other people.
• discuss moral issues and conditions with others.
• stop watching a television program because of its values or viewpoints.
• go out of their way to encourage or compliment someone.

 

[Argamemnon]

^^ Thank you Grace Seeker. I would never have imagined that so many people attended church in the US, what a contrast with many nations in Europe....

 

[Zico]

There is one thing that Ataturk did do for Islam though: he stopped the Saudis from demolishing Masjid-ul-Nabi, allegedly. Can't find any primary sources for this unfortunately.

Definetly NOT true.

 

[Fishman]

Definetly NOT true.

Nope. No primary sources doesn't mean no secondary ones. Apparently it was on some kind of TV program recently, but not one in our country.

According to this naff forum, he said this:

I've learned in pain that Hz Muhammed's grave will be demolished. You can not touch this sacred trust. If I hear even one of its stone is damaged I will send away my army.

 

[Zico]

Nope. No primary sources doesn't mean no secondary ones. Apparently it was on some kind of TV program recently, but not one in our country.

According to this naff forum, he said this:

Hmmm interesting...I've got to ask my Saudi friends if this is true. Thank you for that link bro

 

[YusufNoor]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

this statement:

In terms of raw numbers, on any given Sunday you will 141,000,000 American in church

CANNOT BE CORRECT!

the current popluation of the US is estimated at:

303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

according to:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

so the unfounded claim is that ON ANY SUNDAY 46.41% of the US is in church!

I would never have imagined that so many people attended church in the US, what a contrast with many nations in Europe....

your imagination WAS correct!

here's one reason why that claim is false:

How Many Americans Really Attend Church Each Week?
30 comments | Permalink

How many Americans go to church regularly?

If you listen to the answers provided by major opinion research firms, the answer usually hovers around 40%. (National Opinion Research Center: 38%; Institute for Social Research’s World Values: 44%; Barna: 41%; National Election Studies: 40%; Gallup: 41%.)

But in recent years this consensus has been challenged. It seems that it’s more accurate to say that 40% of Americans claim to attend church regularly.

see that?

the article continues:

In 1998, sociologist Stanley Presser at the University of Michigan—whose “research focuses on questionnaire design and testing, the accuracy of survey responses, and ethical issues stemming from the use of human subjects”—co-authored a study entitled: “Data Collection Mode and Social Desirability Bias in Self-Reported Religious Attendance,” American Sociological Review, v. 63 (1998): 137-145 (with L. Stinson). Comparing diaries with actual attendance, they made the estimate that the actual percentage of Americans attending church from the mid-1960’s to the 90’s was about 26%.

One of the problem comes in how the question is asked in a poll. Different questions yield different results. For example, in a survey you might ask, “What did you do last weekend?” listing for the person a number of possible activities, including church-going. This will yield a very different response than if you asked, “Did you attend church last Sunday?”

One factor is that people often answer according to what they think someone like them wants or ought to do. So people tend to overreport on the number of sexual partners they’ve had and how much money they give to charity, and tend to underreport on illegal drug use and the like. Hence, church attendance is often inflated.

going on:

In 1998 C. Kirk Hadaway and P.L. Marler published an article in the Christian Century entitled, Did You Really Go To Church This Week? Behind the Poll Data where they examine many of these factors. The authors focused on individual counties in the US and Canada, surveying actual church/synagogue attendance and comparing it with random surveys they were conducting. They found that actual church attendance was about half the rate indicated by national public opinion polls. Their estimate for US actual church attendance is around 20%.

Dave Olson, director of church planting for the Evangelical Covenant Church, surveying only Christian churches (i.e., evangelical, mainline, and Catholic) has come up with a similar number. The percentage of Americans regularly attending church is 18.7%.

this says almost 1 in 5, still too high!

but the article adds:

Olson has collected his findings in an eye-opening slide-show entitled Twelve Surprising Facts about the US Church. The 12 points cannot be copied and pasted, so I’ve reprinted them below, along with links to his charts and maps.

1. The percentage of people that attend a Christian church each weekend is far below what pollsters report. (US percentage of population in worship on any given weekend in 2000)
2. The percentage of people attending a Christian church each weekend decreased significantly from 1990-2000. (US worship attendance in 1990 and 2000 by percentage of population)
3. Christian church attendance is between 1 ½ and 2 times higher in the South and the Midwest than it is in the West and the Northeast. (Percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend in 2000)
4. Only one state [Hawaii] saw an increase in the percentage attending church from 1990-2000. [California, Connecticut, Georgia, and Washington were close to keeping up with population growth.] (Increase or decline in percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend 1990–2000)
5. The percentage that attends church on any given weekend is declining in over two thirds of the counties in the United States. [Among the states with the highest percentages of declining counties were Minnesota, Wisconsin, and South Carolina.] (US counties: Increase or decline in percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend 1990–2000)
6. Evangelicals, mainliners, and Catholics are strongest in very different regions of the country. (maps for Evangelicals, mainliners, and Catholics)
7. Churches with 50–299 people in attendance are shrinking, while the smallest churches and larger churches are growing. (Decadal growth rate of churches by size category)
8. Established churches, from 40–180 years old, on average decline in attendance. (Yearly attendance growth of existing churches by decade started)
9. The increase in the number of churches is about one eighth of what is needed to keep up with population growth. (Net increase in number of churches in the US between 1990 and 2000)
10. The church-planting rate has been declining throughout the history of our country. (Churches started per 1 million residents)
11. Existing churches are plateauing and new church growth provides less than half of the growth necessary to keep up with population growth. (Attendance growth percentage of Protestant churches 1990–2000)
12. If the present trends continue, the percentage of the population that attends church in 2050 will be almost half of what it is today. (Projected percentage of population attending church on any given weekend)

source:

http://theologica.blogspot.com/2005/06/how-many-americans-really-attend.html

now if you look further down the page, you will see this comment:

I really do attend church (a very progressive Presbyterian congregation) every Sunday...or nearly every Sunday and I'd agree with these findings based on my limited view of the situation and our churches' empty pews.

The press blew this one way out of proportion with the whole "moral values" kerfluffle after the election. Fer instance in my workgroup of 20 people in the Norther Virginia area, I am the only regular churchgoer.

The evangelicals may have a little power right now, but they ain't a majority, no matter how loudly James Dobson brays. Lets pray that the midterms in 2006 reflect this.

and why we can't know:

Church attendance studies by Presser and Stinson:

It gets worse.

Sociologist Stanley Presser of the University of Maryland and research assistant Linda Stinson of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics completed a study of notes in personal diaries. These time-use diaries were maintained for social scientific research projects in the mid-1960s, 1970s and 1990s. Those participating in the projects were asked to keep track of their activities. The 1992-1994 diaries, for example, were used by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to determine exposure of the participants to harmful substances in the environment.

Presser and Stinson found that many Americans were not at church when they claimed to be. Their best estimates are that the percentage of adults who actually attended religious services during the previous weekend dropped from 42% in 1965 to 26% in 1994.

Presser said:

"We asked people, tell us everything you did in the last 24 hours so we can know what chemicals you might have been exposed to. If somebody went to church, they ought to tell us, but if they didn't go, they shouldn't manufacture it. We didn't do what most polls of religious belief do, and ask, 'Did you go to church in the last seven days?,' which some might interpret as being asked whether they were good people and good Christians." 13

The Washington Post reported that the analysis

"reveals a discrepancy between the diaries and the polls, and suggests that many Americans have been misreporting how they spend their Sunday mornings, inflating estimates of church attendance by perhaps as much as a third." 14

American Atheists commented:

"The researchers also found that the percentage of Americans who lie about their attendance is increasing. Presser and Stinson described the 16-point drop off in church attendance 'really very striking'..." 14

If this study by Presser and Stinson is accurate, it would indicate a substantial drop in actual church attendance from the mid 1960s to the mid 1990s. Since the reported attendance has remained stuck at the magical 40% figure for decades, one might conclude that the rate of exaggeration of church attendance is increasing. Also, it would appear that polls are to be mistrusted. Nobody really knows what the percentage attendance is. To obtain accurate data, pollsters will have to abandon the comfortable task of polling opinion by phone and camp out in church, synagogue, and mosque parking lots so that they can count noses.

an amusing aside:

Hadaway, Marler, and Chaves repeated their Ohio study in Oxford Country in southern Ontario, Canada. Most polls show that 20% of the adult population say that they go to church weekly. Again, half were lying, as only about 10% actually attend church weekly.

if this statement

The percentage of Americans regularly attending church is 18.7%.

read:

The percentage of Christians regularly attending church is 18.7%.

i would still claim it was too high!

here's another quote:

There is also a 2005 article which only Scott Thumma and Randy Travis and David Olson seem to have noticed: it strengthens the argument of the 1993 article that church attendance may be below 22% of the population.

source:

http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowe...rch-attendance-the-sociologists-weigh-in.html

22% in 1993 and most of these sites claim that the % is falling...

i've been living in the US for 50 years and the number of Christians that i know who attend church every week is ZERO!

you might be able to make those overinflated claims for XMAS or Easter!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

this statement:



CANNOT BE CORRECT!

the current popluation of the US is estimated at:

303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

according to:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

so the unfounded claim is that ON ANY SUNDAY 46.41% of the US is in church!

I'm actually glad you called me on that. I was trying to quote some stats from a website that I was unable to cut and paste and inadvertently left out the word "claim". I think you will note that later I showed my own skepticism of some of those numbers, my experience is closer to 25-30% of people attend church on any given Sunday. But it is true more people attend church than sporting events, even though sports does seem like our national religion.

your imagination WAS correct!

With regard to US church attedance vs. European church attendance, though the rate is going down in the USA, I understand it is still higher than the abismally low rates that are present in most European countries. Christianity is actually on the increase in parts of Latin America and Asia and exploding in Africa.