Christianity or Islam?

songinwind,

You should stop reading your book, at least for a while, and check the reality in the world. You would see that Muslim countries are the poorest and least free nations of the world. This is not a coincidence. The Islamic creed doesn't encourage people devoting their time to scientific or economic activities and doesn't encourage freedom and democracy. In the past that wasn't important, because winning battles with swords was all that mattered. That is why Islam was good back then and you had that Islamic Empire that everybody mentions.

Today is different. Swords aren't useful anymore. Science is. And Muslim countries have no scientists, because children instead of attending modern schools, attend madrassas. When they leave the madrassas, they know a lot about the Quran, but nothing that could be useful for themselves or their societies in the modern, real, world.
 
reading Quran, and doing good deeds, and praying to God, that is sufficent for us, where does it say we incourage military activities?????

As for science, math and so forth, the numbering system that your using today , was inventing by muslims, so was alot of other things, in the long run my friend life isnt everything, we believe in the hereafter.....witch is forever

so we dont need to be rich, or anything of what you say..its ok

you can have it !!!
 
abdul Majid,

But how can Islam be true if its followers are poor, ignorant and weak? How can God want that for his followers? Isn't that poverty and weakness a proof that islam is not true?

Did you ever take a look at the websites of Ibn Warraq or Ali Sina? They used to be Muslims.....
 
First i dont like the fact you are callings ISLAM's followers ignorant, and weak...you are getting offensive now , so slow down...

and second dont give me an example of TWO people, whats that gonna represent everyone???

in that case i can give you many for your religion!!!

WHy do u think faith is supposed to make you rich??
 
Asalam u Alikum and Peace
Mr Turin
i asked u a simple question that can u prove that Bible is the word of God
i thought u didn't understand my question
do tell me if not, i m waiting for the answer
Peace
Walikum as Salam
 
Let me state a few facts (not opinions) for Turin:

Fact #1 - The Christianity that you practice today is not the Christianity that was practiced long ago. Jesus and his apostles were JEWS! When the apostles went out into the world to teach what Jesus had left them, they did not start a new or different religion. They were JEWS and as such remained that way. They were initially called "Christians" because they were being mocked for being followers of Christ.

Fact #2 - Christians today do not believe they must follow the law. That is because they follow Paul and not Jesus. If you really believe that Jesus is the one you should follow, then you would follow the law as Jesus states in Mathew 5:17. Pay close attention to the part where it says,"....until heaven and earth pass...." which is spoken about in the book of Revelations and has not yet happend.

Fact #3 - When the Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhe wa Sallam) went to spread Islam and was met with aggression, that is when he fought his enemies. Some stories have been twisted to make it seem otherwise, but such is not the case.



"Oh Allah! Help me to remember You, be thankful to You and worship You well." Ameen.
 
Hi Turin,
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
Hi Turin,
Waiting for your response.
Click to expand...

Turin Turambar said:
But how can Islam be true if its followers are poor, ignorant and weak? How can God want that for his followers? Isn't that poverty and weakness a proof that islam is not true?
Click to expand...
Well the same is true for Christians in Ecuador. How can God allow all those Christians to be poor and weak?

Did you ever take a look at the websites of Ibn Warraq or Ali Sina? They used to be Muslims.....
Click to expand...
1. No one even knows who these people are. For all we know they could be some Christians posing as former Muslims. Unlike the Christian PRIESTS who have accepted Islam and are well known.
2. Ali Sina himself has admitted that he was never a true Muslim. Ibn Warraq's situation is the same.

I noticed that you failed to comment on Dr. Jeremiah's refutation of Ibn Warraq.
 
abdul Majid,

I can assure you that I wasn't trying to be offensive. I am sure that there are many educated Muslims and probably they are posting in this forum like you are.

But it is a fact that on average Muslims are poor, weak and ignorant when compared to non-Muslims. What I am saying is that that fact makes it difficult to believe that God is still guiding Muslims as His favorites. Perhaps God has other favorites today. Perhaps those who live in freedom and democracy are His favorites now.

Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina are not the only ones. In their websites they list many others who have left Islam. Most of them don't post their real name because Muslims can get very violent when somebody leaves their faith.

But violence doesn't mean truth.
 
Asalam u Alikum and Peace
im still waiting for the answer
Walikum as Salam
 
Greetings and peace Turin Turambar;

But it is a fact that on average Muslims are poor, weak and ignorant when compared to non-Muslims.

What I am saying is that that fact makes it difficult to believe that God is still guiding Muslims as His favorites.
Click to expand...

I feel distressed that you should use poverty as a reason against Muslims and Islam.

God has not abandoned the poor, there are so many verses in the Bible about justice for the poor, and we tend to ignore them when we live our own lives in comfort. I do believe it will be the poor and oppressed who will have an easier time getting into heaven. It is the rich who have abandoned the poor and we exploit poor countries simply because we can.

If you earn over five thousand US. Dollars a year that puts you in the top ten percent of the richest people in the world. About a billion people starve on a dollar a day through exploitation.

Coffee is probably one of the most exploited commodities traded, the price of coffee in the shops is about three times the price it was twenty years ago thanks to inflation. But the growers only receive about a fifth of the price they were getting twenty years ago.

This would be like a person in the third world living on a low wage of ten pounds a week twenty years ago and only getting two pounds a week today for doing the same job. We wouldn’t put up with this in our rich democracies but we force the people in the third world to accept these conditions.

In the UK a 100 gram jar of coffee retails for around £2.50 and the growers get about one penny of that. The coffee adverts on tv. are almost obscene suggesting theirs is a luxury product. Many coffee growers cannot afford to pay wages to their workers.

We could comfortably pay another five pence a jar and give the growers at least what they were getting twenty years ago, but we don’t.

There is no justice for the poor in this world because they are so easy to exploit. You only have to look at the thousand billion dollars a year spent on the military; to know that rich countries do not want to help the poor.

Poverty is possibly the worst argument that you could use against Islam.

In the spirit of seeking justice for all people

Eric
 
Eric H,

I share your compassion for the poor of this world. However, you have to understand that Islam is different from Christianity in that it claims to be a total and perfect social and political system. Thus, it is valid to criticize Islam resorting to the argument of poverty and oppression exactly as it was valid to criticize the Soviet Union on the basis of the same arguments. Since the system is applied in many places and only generates poverty and oppression, we know that it has to be wrong.

But if you want to focus on other aspects of Islam you are of course welcome to.
 
blackjubba,

1.- The Christianity we practice today is the same one the Apostles practiced back then. The only difference is that we have had two thousand years to develop a more perfect understanding of those teachings. In Christian countries we are always improving our thinking, never going back and imitating a long-forgotten past as Muslims do.

2.- We follow Jesus, who is the one in which the law was perfected. In that sense we are certainly following the law. Once again, we Christians look forward, that is why we have progressed socially and technologically. We are always improving our thinking and acting.

3.- When I say that Muhammad and his successors were aggressors, I am using the Muslim sources. Check in the websites of Ibn Warrraq and Ali Sina. They have a very detailed description of everything that Muhammad did.
 
Turin Turambar said:
blackjubba,


1.- The Christianity we practice today is the same one the Apostles practiced back then.
The only difference is that we have had two thousand years to develop a more perfect understanding of those teachings.
Click to expand...
In Christian countries we are always improving our thinking, never going back and imitating a long-forgotten past as Muslims do.
Click to expand...
So, what you meant to say was, 'The Christianity we practice today is NOT the same the Apostles practiced back then' I'm sure this is what you meant, as saying you have developed a more perfect understanding over the Apostles who were taught by Jesus, pbuh, HIMSELF, would be not only arrogant to the max, but a contradiction to your very first sentence. Unlike Christianity, Islam doesn't change with the whims and fancies of every John, Paul and Preacher through the centuries. Islam has remained true since the day it was revealed, Alhamdulillah :D

So, tell me turin, what is the Christian fast called....you know, fasting like how Jesus, pbuh, did? And, would you mind explaining how you prostrate in prayer like Jesus, pbuh, did without banging your head on the pew in front of you? :rollseyes Oh, and you know how Jesus, pbuh, and the Apostles performed ablution....would you mind explaining the procedure Christians follow, I can't seem to remember. :-[

2.- We follow Jesus, who is the one in which the law was perfected. In that sense we are certainly following the law. Once again, we Christians look forward, that is why we have progressed socially and technologically. We are always improving our thinking and acting.
Click to expand...

You contradicted yourself...for explanation see above. But, while you're on it...please show us the verse from the Bible, (God's word), where it says, "only follow what I say until you are able to improve upon my teachings?" No wonder you're so arrogant at times....you think you are above God in your thinking and actions. (I don't want to be standing too close to you when the lightening bolt strikes. :muddlehea

3.- When I say that Muhammad and his successors were aggressors, I am using the Muslim sources. Check in the websites of Ibn Warrraq and Ali Sina. They have a very detailed description of everything that Muhammad did.
Click to expand...
I'm quite sure brother ansar responded to your example of Warraq and Sina. If you would read the posts of the people that took the time to respond to you I'm sure you would have a clear understanding of what I am referring to. :)

Hana
 
Hana_Aku,

I will be brief, because it is late. You say "Unlike Christianity, Islam doesn't change with the whims and fancies of every John, Paul and Preacher through the centuries"

Exactly, Islam doesn't change, that is the problem. It stoned women back then and it stones women right now.

If I were you, I would demand some changes. It is high time.
 
ur (Turin Turambar) comment make me laugh

so u beleive law of God must be change
so it is understandable that ur thought is better than God

so who is gone a change God Law.......Human or God???

And other thing mr. Islam(thoose have good knowledge of Islam) respect woman lot more than u ever see one to respect woman

and a subject of stoned
this is not for only woman also for every one

Human can Challenge God law also can Change it
but i Challenge ur law never stop Adultery, Corruption, u can't stop anything
Beleive me the Culture of the current world shall distroy every good thing and good felling and real happiness.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top