Christmas for Muslims?

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

And just as an aside, if anyone wants to have a serious discussion on the dating of Christmas, or the Trinity, or anything else, ask the mods to open the comparative religion section and permit *free* and *open* *civil* discussion again

Firstly, repeatedly speaking against moderators and forum rules like this is not acceptable. We have a Helpdesk section in which any problems can be discussed and addressed privately. You speak of permitting 'free and open' discussion. Judging by your other posts, if by that you mean allowing attacks against the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad :saws: and promotion of Christian teachings, then no, that is not allowed as mentioned in the FAQ. This is not the 'civility' we have in mind.

I see many reasons why people don't go out of their way to celibrate Christmas being Muslim. But that is different from saying its a bad thing. Would there be an issue if Jews did the above for Noah? Whats the big deal, even if the date is wrong?

If you read the article posted earlier by sister Insaanah, it explains what the big deal is:
http://www.islam21c.com/theology/173-christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity/

It is quite contradictory that people should seek to 'respect' Prophets by going against their example. They were, after all, guides sent to mankind to teach us how to worship the One True God and live a life He will be pleased with.

 

[Scimitar]

muslims celebrating jesus mawlid... I lol'd at the desperate attempt to discredit muslims.

I'm still roffling my toffles

 

[Sojourn]

Peace be with you Muhammad,

Greetings,

Firstly, repeatedly speaking against moderators and forum rules like this is not acceptable. We have a Helpdesk section in which any problems can be discussed and addressed privately.

I did not intend to come across as "speaking against" moderators or forum rules, I can only imagine how tough it is for a few people to run a large forum like this, and I presume the comparative religion section was getting out of hand which is why it had to be closed. But at the same time I see a lot of interest in comparative religion discussions on both sides of the fence, although so far the discussion is one-sided. Even in this thread issues of supposed Pagan influences, Jesus Divinity, and the Trinity reared there heads, what they have to do with a Muslim celebrating the birthday of an Islamic prophet, I don't know, but clearly people like to talk about these topics. I personally would love to explain to certain posters in this thread why their attacks on Christianity are really attacks on their own misunderstanding, a caricature of Christianity doctrine if you will, and then it would be interesting to see what objections and questions these posters would then level against the real doctrine. *That* would be a very, very interesting discussion.

You speak of permitting 'free and open' discussion. Judging by your other posts, if by that you mean allowing attacks against the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad :saws: and promotion of Christian teachings, then no, that is not allowed as mentioned in the FAQ. This is not the 'civility' we have in mind.

Well, I am a non-Muslim, I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet nor do I believe the Quran is a revelation, and I have reasons for my disbelief. Is my expression of disbelief an attack on Islam? Would me explaining myself be an attack on Islam? And would me correcting misconceptions Muslims have on my religion be considered promoting that religion?

If so, then not only is any serious discussion impossible, but this forum is not the place for me. For any fruitful discussion to be possible both participants need to be *authentic*, and it needs to be mutually understood that one sides authentic expression, even if that be of disbelief in what the other holds, need not be taken offensively. I personally believe there is a way to have a civil discussion about sacred things without falling into baseless attacks.

But If you think I'm mistaken, and this place is not the place for me (although I would like it to be!), suggest a forum or discussion group where this is possible, and I'll leave you folks alone.


Pax et bonum

 

[Scimitar]

Well, I am a non-Muslim, I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet nor do I believe the Quran is a revelation, and I have reasons for my disbelief. Is my expression of disbelief an attack on Islam? Would me explaining myself be an attack on Islam? And would me correcting misconceptions Muslims have on my religion be considered promoting that religion?

You're free to believe what you believe and you're free to say that you don't believe in Islam. Doesn't bother us.

And no, I don't consider it an attack against Islam ;D but what you said regarding this reminds me of media brainwashed fools who claim the same...

If so, then not only is any serious discussion impossible, but this forum is not the place for me. For any fruitful discussion to be possible both participants need to be *authentic*, and it needs to be mutually understood that one sides authentic expression, even if that be of disbelief in what the other holds, need not be taken offensively. I personally believe there is a way to have a civil discussion about sacred things without falling into baseless attacks.

I've followed your posts and read the replies to them also. What you will have to admit is that when it comes to forums, this one is the best moderated and least tolerant of trolls on the web - a place where discussion is civil and educational, yet you've ignored these and instead tried to tarnish the good name of this forum with the same crass accusations you know fit better with the other forums on the web? Really brother Sojourn?

But If you think I'm mistaken, and this place is not the place for me (although I would like it to be!), suggest a forum or discussion group where this is possible, and I'll leave you folks alone.


Pax et bonum

Stick around bud!

Scimi

EDIT: Christians are going on Hajj, believe me?

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings Sojourn,

But at the same time I see a lot of interest in comparative religion discussions on both sides of the fence, although so far the discussion is one-sided. Even in this thread issues of supposed Pagan influences, Jesus Divinity, and the Trinity reared there heads, what they have to do with a Muslim celebrating the birthday of an Islamic prophet, I don't know, but clearly people like to talk about these topics. I personally would love to explain to certain posters in this thread why their attacks on Christianity are really attacks on their own misunderstanding, a caricature of Christianity doctrine if you will, and then it would be interesting to see what objections and questions these posters would then level against the real doctrine. *That* would be a very, very interesting discussion.

If there is genuine interest in Comparative Religion and the mods feel it is worth re-opening, that is always a possibility. But the current section we are posting in is actually meant to be one-sided; it is clarifications about Islam, not other religions. And remember this thread is not about Muslims celebrating the birthday of an Islamic prophet. It is asking why Muslims do not celebrate Christmas. I should also point out that the opinions expressed in this thread are not as ignorant as you say. You will have noticed that many of our posters are well-versed in Christianity - they were once Christians themselves or they have spent considerable time studying it.

Well, I am a non-Muslim, I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet nor do I believe the Quran is a revelation, and I have reasons for my disbelief. Is my expression of disbelief an attack on Islam? Would me explaining myself be an attack on Islam? And would me correcting misconceptions Muslims have on my religion be considered promoting that religion?

As you say, there is a way to have a civil discussion about sacred things without falling into baseless attacks. Unfortunately, some of your past posts have indeed contained attacks. With regards to correction, the manner and context in which it is done often makes it clear whether it is acceptable or not.

I hope this helps to clarify, and I would suggest we continue this discussion in Helpdesk if required, to avoid derailing the thread any further.