Church Rumors Incite Mob Attack in Egypt

[Woodrow]

This doesnt seem to hold water. It also not your own free will to be born in a certain country.

But the truth of the matter is we are all born into a time or place not of our own choosing. the choice in life is what will we do about it? If we are born in a place we do not like, our choices are to see if we have a legitimate reason to change it. Not all change is a good choice even if it is what we want.

We change what can be changed for the good of the majority, accept what we can not change or leave.

I was born in Hartford, Connecticut. I hate cold weather, I love desert climates. I left Connecticut.

Getting back to your statement. I really do not have the faintest idea what point you are trying to get across? Sounds like a hypothetical situation disguised as an argument for purpose of argument.

 

[Amadeus85]

I think that it is very unfair that christians in Egypt have such difficulties with building new churches while muslims there don't have such problems.

Its interesting that the same people who complain about hijab ban in France schools seem not to notice unfair treatment of egyptian christians.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Who says they cant fight for their rights? Whats your point? If you feel injustice, fight for justice. Lets not play the blame game.

 

[Zman]

It is one thing living in a country and having a group come in and change the laws. That is not always acceptable. But, if you live in a country and those are the laws at the time you move there or they are the laws when you are born there you obey the laws.

I agree with you about obeying the law. But, that group has every right to attempt to change the laws that they persceive are biased towards them.

The African-Americans did so, during the Civil Rights, women changed many biased laws towards them, so did the Irish, the Italians, the Jewish people, etc.

If they felt they were targeted and held grievences, then they took legal, peaceful action that was within the law.

Unfortunately, when Muslims speak of doing the same thing, everyone becomes defensive and starts saying "Shariah," "forcing Islam on us," "Appeasing Muslims," "refusing to assimilate."

But, it was quite alright for non-Muslims to change laws.

The new term that is absolutely nasueating is being "politically correct," towards Muslims/Islam.

"We have to defend our rights and call a spade a spade."

Yet, they are ALWAYS "politically correct" (at least in public) when it comes to women, "gays", Minorities (other than the Muslim persuasion) "blacks", "Jews", the Holocaust, etc.

Hypocrisy and double standards reign supreme...

 

[Amadeus85]

Who says they cant fight for their rights? Whats your point? If you feel injustice, fight for justice. Lets not play the blame game.

I just say that law in Egypt doesnt treat equally muslims and christians, as the last one have difficulties with building new churches.

And i was talking about our western "freedom defenders" who complained so much about hijab ban in France schools, but they dont care about unfairly treatment of christians in Egypt for example ( not to mention in Saudi Arabia).

 

[Zman]

I think that it is very unfair that christians in Egypt have such difficulties with building new churches while muslims there don't have such problems.

Its interesting that the same people who complain about hijab ban in France schools seem not to notice unfair treatment of egyptian christians.

Coptic Christians, at the moment, have gotten much more than what the Muslims of Greece have gotten.

Coptic Christians, have been allowed to build and renovate Churches. Muslims and Christians have Sunday off. Christmas is recognized and celebrated. They have religious sermons broadcast on tv. The government always sides with them against Muslims, even if they're wrong, in order not to offend their sensibilities, and avoid US/EU internal intervention.

Can any government in a predominantely Muslim nation intervene in France on the side of Muslims, or isn't that declared an internal matter? Would France allow such an act to occur?

In Greece, building mosques/renovations go through the Greek Orthodox Church and not the state. And most of the time, the request is refused.

Imagine if Al Azhar in Egypt controlled the say in the building/renovations of Coptic Churches. Just imagine the uproar in the West...

 

[Zman]

I just say that law in Egypt doesnt treat equally dont care about unfairly treatment of christians in Egypt for example ( not to mention in Saudi Arabia).

Kindly research how many Churches have been built in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, Just to accomodate an extremely small Christian minority...

 

[Woodrow]

I agree with you about obeying the law. But, that group has every right to attempt to change the laws that they persceive are biased towards them.

The African-Americans did so, during the Civil Rights, women changed many biased laws towards them, so did the Irish, the Italians, the Jewish people, etc.

If they felt they were targeted and held grievences, then they took legal, peaceful action that was within the law.

Unfortunately, when Muslims speak of doing the same thing, everyone becomes defensive and starts saying "Shariah," "forcing Islam on us," "Appeasing Muslims," "refusing to assimilate."

But, it was quite alright for non-Muslims to change laws.

The new term that is absolutely nasueating is being "politically correct," towards Muslims/Islam.

"We have to defend our rights and call a spade a spade."

Yet, they are ALWAYS "politically correct" (at least in public) when it comes to women, "gays", Minorities (other than the Muslim persuasion) "blacks", "Jews", the Holocaust, etc.

Hypocrisy and double standards reign supreme...

True but the laws were changed through the laws and not in violation of the laws. the people still lived within the law and did not break any laws to bring about the change.

Muslims here are capable of doing the same thing. the key is to keep it within the law of the land. I actually can not think of any laws that need to be changed. I am certain there are some, but I am not aware of any that would affect me were I live.

I find very little anti-Islam sentiment among non-Muslims in the US. I am not aware of any laws being passed to infringe upon our rights to worship as we choose and there are very few areas where a Hijab and Niqaab would be banned and in those few areas the ban is not based on religion.

So going back to my statement. we accept the laws or we leave. By accepting the laws does not mean we do not try to change things for the better, we just need to do the changes within the legal system.

Just out of curiosity can anybody think of any place in America where the rights of a Muslim are interferred with? I can only speak about Austin, from experience. Other parts of the country may be different, but not that I am aware of.

 

[Amadeus85]

Kindly research how many Churches have been built in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, Just to accomodate an extremely small Christian minority...

In Saudi Arabia live about 800 000 christians (foreign workers) and there is no single church for them. Owning a Bible is banned under going to jail, just like wearing crosses.

In Gulf States honestly i dont know.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Had it been so bad for them there(although I dont know to be honest), why would there be any early nations of Christians? Earlier than any Muslim living in the West.

 

[Woodrow]

In Saudi Arabia live about 800 000 christians (foreign workers) and there is no single church for them. Owning a Bible is banned under going to jail, just like wearing crosses.

In Gulf States honestly i dont know.

Roman Catholicism in Saudi Arabia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Catholic Church in Saudi Arabia is part of the worldwide Roman Catholic Church, under the spiritual leadership of the Pope and curia in Rome.

Public worship of non-Islamic religions is forbidden in Saudi Arabia and Christians of all denominations have been subjected to persecution [1]. Possession of Christian Bibles is not a crime although possession of large quantities can carry severe penalties as it will be viewed that it is your intention to convert others [2]. It is not known exactly how many Catholics there are in the country, but it is estimated to be between half to one million people. There is a very large expatriate community in Saudi including almost a million Filipinos, the Philippines being a predominantly Catholic nation. Saudi Arabia comes under the jurisdiction of the Apostolic Vicariate of Arabia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Saudi_Arabia

 

[Amadeus85]

Roman Catholicism in Saudi Arabia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Catholic Church in Saudi Arabia is part of the worldwide Roman Catholic Church, under the spiritual leadership of the Pope and curia in Rome.

Public worship of non-Islamic religions is forbidden in Saudi Arabia and Christians of all denominations have been subjected to persecution [1]. Possession of Christian Bibles is not a crime although possession of large quantities can carry severe penalties as it will be viewed that it is your intention to convert others [2]. It is not known exactly how many Catholics there are in the country, but it is estimated to be between half to one million people. There is a very large expatriate community in Saudi including almost a million Filipinos, the Philippines being a predominantly Catholic nation. Saudi Arabia comes under the jurisdiction of the Apostolic Vicariate of Arabia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Saudi_Arabia

Thanks for the source

 

[Zman]

True but the laws were changed through the laws and not in violation of the laws. the people still lived within the law and did not break any laws to bring about the change.

Muslims here are capable of doing the same thing. the key is to keep it within the law of the land. I actually can not think of any laws that need to be changed. I am certain there are some, but I am not aware of any that would affect me were I live.

I find very little anti-Islam sentiment among non-Muslims in the US. I am not aware of any laws being passed to infringe upon our rights to worship as we choose and there are very few areas where a Hijab and Niqaab would be banned and in those few areas the ban is not based on religion.

So going back to my statement. we accept the laws or we leave. By accepting the laws does not mean we do not try to change things for the better, we just need to do the changes within the legal system.

Ok, I agree with you.

Just out of curiosity can anybody think of any place in America where the rights of a Muslim are interferred with? I can only speak about Austin, from experience. Other parts of the country may be different, but not that I am aware of.

In general, the atmosphere and tolerance is excellent.

But, there are a few oddities that occur. For example, in my state, some Muslims attempted to build Mosques and Islamic schools in certain areas, and their efforts were rebuffed. The Town Councils gave non-religious reasons (officially/publically), but some brothers claim it's religiously based.

I read that there was an actual event or the calling for a pig race around a Mosque in Texas (may be you heard about it).

I read an article last week about a Jewish group plotting to stop the building of a Mosque in Boston.

Plus, you got your right wing fanatics who incite hate and violence against Muslims, like Mr. Savage and Glen Beck.

Not to mention the every-now-and-then statements by Pat Robertson, Falwell and Franklin Graham...

 

[Zman]

In Saudi Arabia live about 800 000 christians (foreign workers) and there is no single church for them. Owning a Bible is banned under going to jail, just like wearing crosses.

In Gulf States honestly i dont know.

Christian Church Rises In Arabia

(Above Picture: Costing about $15m, the new church is being constructed outside Doha, Qatar)

By John Terrett,
In Doha, Qatar
UPDATED ON:
SATURDAY, MARCH 24, 2007
17:52 MECCA TIME, 14:52 GMT
Al Jazeera

Work has begun on the construction of Qatar's first purpose-built church in the desert outside Doha, the country's capital.

Although the country's native inhabitants are entirely Muslim - and are prohibited by law from converting to another faith - the new Catholic church will cater to the large number of Christian migrants who have come to the Arabia Gulf state in search of work.

Roman Catholics from all over the Arabian Peninsula - many of them migrant workers - are helping to pay for the $15m building, which is scheduled to open at the end of the year.

Overseeing the church is Paul Hinder, the Catholic Church's Bishop of Arabia. A Christian in the heart of the Muslim world, his diocese is the entire Arabian peninsular, encompassing six countries.

He oversees churches in Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and even in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam where Christianity is practiced behind closed doors.

Speaking about the Christian communities in Saudi Arabia, he said: "It's not an open church. Privately the Christians may gather in their houses in a very discreet manner."

"Of course it's not easy to be a bishop here [in the Gulf]," he said. "But at least regarding the church life it is full of vitality."

Spiritual Satisfaction:

(Above Picture: Bishop Paul Hinder oversees churches in Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and even in Saudi Arabia)

Hinder said allowing Christians to worship freely could only bring benefits to the countries in which they are working.

"The more they [people] are satisfied spiritually the more they will continue to help develop the country, it's obvious," he said.

Hinder told Al Jazeera that often people are more active Christians during their one or two years labouring in the Arabian peninsular than they are when they are back home.

Certainly, turn-out at church services all over the Arabian peninsular is significant. Numbers in the congregations regularly beat those in congregations in Europe and even in the United States.

The majority of the two million expatriate Christians who attend these services are Filipinos, Lebanese and Indians who have come to the Gulf for work.

"We have to accept that we are expatriates in every sense of the word. We are a pure pilgrimage church," Hinder told Al Jazeera.

"The challenge is especially that we are a multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-racial church composed of faithful from more or less all over the world."

Source:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/32CC5571-64DA-45AA-BDE5-A0CA68CD4616.htm

 

[Amadeus85]

Christian Church Rises In Arabia

(Above Picture: Costing about $15m, the new church is being constructed outside Doha, Qatar)

By John Terrett,
In Doha, Qatar
UPDATED ON:
SATURDAY, MARCH 24, 2007
17:52 MECCA TIME, 14:52 GMT
Al Jazeera

Work has begun on the construction of Qatar's first purpose-built church in the desert outside Doha, the country's capital.

Although the country's native inhabitants are entirely Muslim - and are prohibited by law from converting to another faith - the new Catholic church will cater to the large number of Christian migrants who have come to the Arabia Gulf state in search of work.

Roman Catholics from all over the Arabian Peninsula - many of them migrant workers - are helping to pay for the $15m building, which is scheduled to open at the end of the year.

Overseeing the church is Paul Hinder, the Catholic Church's Bishop of Arabia. A Christian in the heart of the Muslim world, his diocese is the entire Arabian peninsular, encompassing six countries.

He oversees churches in Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and even in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam where Christianity is practiced behind closed doors.

Speaking about the Christian communities in Saudi Arabia, he said: "It's not an open church. Privately the Christians may gather in their houses in a very discreet manner."

"Of course it's not easy to be a bishop here [in the Gulf]," he said. "But at least regarding the church life it is full of vitality."

Spiritual Satisfaction:

(Above Picture: Bishop Paul Hinder oversees churches in Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and even in Saudi Arabia)

Hinder said allowing Christians to worship freely could only bring benefits to the countries in which they are working.

"The more they [people] are satisfied spiritually the more they will continue to help develop the country, it's obvious," he said.

Hinder told Al Jazeera that often people are more active Christians during their one or two years labouring in the Arabian peninsular than they are when they are back home.

Certainly, turn-out at church services all over the Arabian peninsular is significant. Numbers in the congregations regularly beat those in congregations in Europe and even in the United States.

The majority of the two million expatriate Christians who attend these services are Filipinos, Lebanese and Indians who have come to the Gulf for work.

"We have to accept that we are expatriates in every sense of the word. We are a pure pilgrimage church," Hinder told Al Jazeera.

"The challenge is especially that we are a multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-racial church composed of faithful from more or less all over the world."

Source:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/32CC5571-64DA-45AA-BDE5-A0CA68CD4616.htm

Im happy to hear this. :thumbs_up

 

[Zman]

Im happy to hear this. :thumbs_up

So, are the Christians getting more rights in Arabia and Egypt, than, let's say, the Muslims of Greece?

Isn't that accurate to say?

 

[Woodrow]

Ok, I agree with you.


In general, the atmosphere and tolerance is excellent.

But, there are a few oddities that occur. For example, in my state, some Muslims attempted to build Mosques and Islamic schools in certain areas, and their efforts were rebuffed. The Town Councils gave non-religious reasons (officially/publically), but some brothers claim it's religiously based.

I read that there was an actual event or the calling for a pig race around a Mosque in Texas (may be you heard about it).

I read an article last week about a Jewish group plotting to stop the building of a Mosque in Boston.

Plus, you got your right wing fanatics who incite hate and violence against Muslims, like Mr. Savage and Glen Beck.

Not to mention the every-now-and-then statements by Pat Robertson, Falwell and Franklin Graham...

No I haven't heard this one:

I read that there was an actual event or the calling for a pig race around a Mosque in Texas (may be you heard about it).

I kind of doubt that is fully true. In nearly every Texas City it is illegal to have a live pig within the city limits. I Believe Corpus Christi is the only exception.

that sounds more like some red Neck attempt at Humor.

Although I would not rule out the possibility of it happening in a rural county area as in the counties and out of city limits there are no zoning restrictions and your next door neighbor can build or do anything that does not violate State Law. Although I have yet to hear of any Mosques in any of the rural areas.

 

[Amadeus85]

So, are the Christians getting more rights in Arabia and Egypt, than, let's say, the Muslims of Greece?

Isn't that accurate to say?

Actually since this year mosques can be build in Greece without any problems. In January i visited Athens with my cousins and i heard muezzin's call so it is not so bad i think.
Everyone should have right to worship in the place where he lives.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

The point is dont bother saying Christians arent getting their rights or cant build churches when in actuality, they can! Muslims arent any better off in their own country. We still have to hear the barking of so called leaders from other countries and be scared of our life even living in a Muslim country. Also in actuality, no one is living better than anyone else. Everyone has their own problems.