Clarification on my Position on Israel

[Dawud_uk]

Bismilla hir Rahma nir Rahim
In the name of God, the most beneficent, the most merciful

Salutations and Beginning

Assalaamu Alaykum,
To the people of the Book – peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,

I am posting this as many Jews and other non-Muslims have misinterpreted things I have said about Israel on this forum and others, some accused me of wanting genocide, of being a Jew hater etc, etc.

So to clarify my I regard Israel as immoral and illegal, built on stolen land and taken from the Muslims and Christians of that area and given the Jews who immigrated from other parts of the World. I believe it should therefore be destroyed, wiped off the map as a nation.

Did he just say that? Wiped off the map?
Yes I did! That does not however mean I believe that the Israelis themselves should be wiped off the map, they are people who in most cases didn’t perpetrate the initial theft, they only inherited it but that doesn’t mean the historic wrong done the Palestinian people should be left either.

A compromise position is best to be reached that will not breach the rights of the Palestinians, will allow the Jews a way out of the moral mess they have created and will also be in accordance with God’s law as laid out in the Quran (God’s final book to mankind) and the Sunnah (the example left to us by God’s final prophet and messenger – Muhammad (saws)).

This would obviously not be easy and these are my own views, not any ‘official’ Islamic position, just a way I see out of this moral mess of the Israeli-Muslim Ummah conflict that respects all and doesn’t breach the rules of Islam.

Temporary Solution First

The temporary Solution to allow cooler heads at a later date to look at this matter is to accept the offer of Hamas for a 10, 20 or even 50 year truce based upon the 1967 borders.

Why a truce and not a peace settlement? Well in Islam we cannot hand over one hand span of Muslim land, to do so would be ruling by other than God and his final messenger have revealed and could even be judged an act of apostasy therefore.

But we can have a truce, a temporary peace lasting a long period of time and would allow a longer negotiated settlement that would take into account the rights of both sets of people and also the Islamic law on this issue.

Why should the Jews who have the upper hand now accept such a compromise?
Well look around them. Muslims everywhere.
The piece of land they stole is surrounded by Muslims, Muslims who are increasingly turning towards their faith more and more and demanding Islamic rule. Sooner or later an Islamic state will come about and when it does it will be hostile towards Israel.

Truces respected by Practicing Muslims around the World

If a legitimate truce is already in place they would have to respect that and practicing Muslims can be trusted with their word if given. The secularists like the PLO cannot be trusted, they don’t believe in God truly as they think his rule is incomplete so how can you trust such a person not to lie another of God’s commands?

Such a truce would allow the Palestinians to develop their land, live as a people and get on peacefully with their Israeli neighbours without the need to go against God’s law and say they have signed away such Israel land for good.

It would give the Israelis some breathing space and would allow them perhaps to take a step back to really look at what were doing to another people. The Palestinians didn’t Gas you, burn you and make soap out of you, that was the West, the same people who support your state now. So why are you hurting the Palestinians for the wrong that others did to you?

Historically the Jews have always sought and found protection in Muslim lands, there is no reason to believe this cannot continue in the future as long as these wrongs in Palestine are sorted out first.

Now you say you want a homeland, somewhere Jews can go and live according to their customs and laws, well buy it don’t steal it. The Muslims in al-Andalus allowed you to rule by your laws and customs in your towns, why couldn’t such a deal be made in the future?

My ‘Final Solution’ to the Jewish Problem

This is my eventual idea of a final settlement for the Palestinian / Israeli problem after such a Truce runs out. Such a truce could off-course keep being renewed but it would be better for all for a permanent solution to be found.

1. The Jews of Israel accept the sovereignty of the Islamic state which should God willing be in place at the end of such a truce, THIS IS A MUST FOR MUSLIMS around the world for just an agreement to be respected. As Muslims we cannot let you take this land and say it is yours. You can own land within the Islamic state, but you cannot say it is not part of that state.

2. The Jews in their personal affairs, within their own towns and cities would be free to live by their own laws as based upon their scripture and this would have to be respected by the Muslims. But when dealing with Muslims they would have to do so through the laws found in the Shariah and respect the external foreign policies of the Muslim state also.

3. The Jews would have to pay the Jiziyah, for the protection of the Islamic state they lived in and could levy their own taxes to run their own affairs.

4. Jews could choose to move to this land if they wished and buy land there if they wished, as they could to any part of such a future Muslim state, other than the land of the two holy sanctuaries.

5. Each Jewish family or community would have to negotiate a compensation settlement with the Palestinians whose land they are living on if it was stolen in the first place. Where the Palestinian people could have a piece of land back if they wished or the Jews could buy it off them if they could agree a price between themselves. Such deals are likely given that the original inhabitants of that land would be long dead and so their heirs would not be able to all live on it anyway so makes sense for them to sell it and split the proceeds.

6. All Such agreements would have to be respected by the Muslim State forever more and couldn’t be reopened once agreed by the family and those whose land they are on but if the family wanted their land back, well it is theirs and it has to be returned to them and those who are living on it will have to buy somewhere else to live.

What happens if not such Truce or Agreement?

What will happen if there is no such truce or agreement between us?

Well the Muslim State, the Khilafate is going to come back, God willing soon. But sooner or later it will come about And if no such truce is in place they don’t have to respect any previous agreements signed through secularists like the PLO that don’t conform to Islamic standards.

Such a state would almost certainly make War upon Israel and attempt to destroy it, as we would see it as our duty to correct such a terrible historic wrong. Now maybe they would impose a just settlement to all parties afterwards… or perhaps they would deal with the Jews by expelling them all to Europe or even taking them as captives or worse for the Jews killing their men folk and enslaving the rest. All permissible in Islamic Law against a people behaving as the Jews of Israel are behaving.

So any of the above things could happen, so really its in the interests of the Palestinians, in the future interests of the Jews of Israel to make a truce now and when a future Islamic state comes about make a deal with them, a just settlement that will not compromise on Islamic law, but will see this conflict resolved once and for everyone’s benefit so future wars can be avoided.

Assalaamu Alaykum,
To the people of the Book – peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,

Abu Abdullah, Daw’ud Mannion
Written 11th Murharram 1428

 

[Dahir]

The computer says I can't give you reputation -- I have to spread it around a bit or something...

But my unofficial reputation points to you for being courageous enough to speak your mind, even to the slight dislike of certain posters.

I like the effort and time you've put into this and I'm 100% in support of an idea.

Historically the Jews have always sought and found protection in Muslim lands, there is no reason to believe this cannot continue in the future as long as these wrongs in Palestine are sorted out first.

Very well said. I too believe that Israeli Jews have nothing to fear. The Caliphate has always looked after minority groups with a protective eye and shield, and this should carry on into the future Caliphate, god willing.

:thumbs_up

 

[tomtomsmom]

Yes very well said. The Palestinians deserve their land back!

 

[ManchesterFolk]

So to clarify my I regard Israel as immoral and illegal, built on stolen land and taken from the Muslims and Christians of that area and given the Jews who immigrated from other parts of the World. I believe it should therefore be destroyed, wiped off the map as a nation.

Your first wrong assumption. Less than 50% of Jews who currently live in Israel today are born of parents who are of European Jewry. Arab Jews are the majority in Israel's Jewish poulation. Many kicked out or fled because of Arab riots and hatred against them and many never left and had a presence in the land for a long time.

http://www.samuelfreedman.com/articles/jinterest/nyt10132003.html

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.
Porath (77), pp. 86-87.

A compromise position is best to be reached that will not breach the rights of the Palestinians, will allow the Jews a way out of the moral mess they have created and will also be in accordance with God’s law as laid out in the Quran (God’s final book to mankind) and the Sunnah (the example left to us by God’s final prophet and messenger – Muhammad (saws)).

Okay, so in your view there is no compromise. Your right, they are wrong that is it. Not only is that a narrow way of looking at life in general, but about the majority of the world believes there is no more an Arab right to the land then a Jewish right. If you did not notice, you speak of the Quran, yet the Quran was written and Muhammad was born in 570 AD, centuries upon centuries earlier the Jews were residing in Jerusalem and the Holy land. The Arabs that have genetic ties to there bretherin from Arabia have no relation to the land and came into the scene much later.

This image shows a sign of proof that the Holy Temple to the Jews did exist way before Muhammad and they were residing there:

IMAGE 1

This would obviously not be easy and these are my own views, not any ‘official’ Islamic position, just a way I see out of this moral mess of the Israeli-Muslim Ummah conflict that respects all and doesn’t breach the rules of Islam.

Your morality is not viewed as very moral to the rest of the world. Soon every Jew in Israel will be the son or relative of one who "stole land". Are you going to drive them all out, they are not natives now? An Arab argument is, The Jews were there thousands of years ago, are you going to drive out the Arabs even though they have been their for such a long time, and tell the Arabs to give the land back to the Jews. "They didn't take it". This will be the case with the Jews as well.

Your solutions, are not solutions. They are apeasing you, and saying "to hell" with the rest of the world. You obviously have no interest in global peace or understanding, so therefore, why should anyone care to make peace with you? You obviously care nothing to make peace with Israel.

Why a truce and not a peace settlement? Well in Islam we cannot hand over one hand span of Muslim land, to do so would be ruling by other than God and his final messenger have revealed and could even be judged an act of apostasy therefore.

What makes it Muslim land? Go back to its origins and it is pagan land, but these pagans are no longer around, so the latest surviving people who lived in the land are the Jews. A truce does nothing. For Israel to go back to 1967 borders would be suicide if there was no peace agreement signed. The 1967 borders make the vulnerable again, so why make them vulnerable for peace for 25 years and then another attack. That is just dumb!

The piece of land they stole is surrounded by Muslims, Muslims who are increasingly turning towards their faith more and more and demanding Islamic rule. Sooner or later an Islamic state will come about and when it does it will be hostile towards Israel.

If that happens, it will certainly not go well for the islamic world because I can garuntee you that if an invading army destroys Israel, they will launch Nukes at all of there enemies before they go out. It is there insurance policy to deter an attack.

No more Israel, could equal no more many Islamic countries who attacked her.

If a legitimate truce is already in place they would have to respect that and practicing Muslims can be trusted with their word if given. The secularists like the PLO cannot be trusted, they don’t believe in God truly as they think his rule is incomplete so how can you trust such a person not to lie another of God’s commands?

Hamas is currently in the middle of a truce, yet have launched over 65 rockets into pre-1967 Israel at civilians. How can they be respected to keep their truce?

The Palestinians didn’t Gas you, burn you and make soap out of you

May I introduce you to the old Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (A Palestinian). You might be friends:

The Grand Mufti and Hitler Image
The Grand Mufti overlooking SS recruits (SS ran the death camps)
Grand Mufti gives the "Heil Hitler" salute.

Now you say you want a homeland, somewhere Jews can go and live according to their customs and laws, well buy it don’t steal it.

By 1947, proof shows that the Zionists had actually purchased a huge amount of the land that was swamp before they made them into cities.

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/6640/zion/emek.html

Land in Palestine was largely owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. Absentee landlords were not unique to the Mandate of Palestine. The refusal of absentee landlords to sell land to local residents lead to riots on Prince Edward Island (Canada) in the 1860's and in Ireland (from the 1640's) contributed significantly to the trouble that continues till today.

The problem of absentee landlords is not only historic, even today absentee landlords prevent land improvement, reduction of poverty and increases in living standards. Unlike someone who lives near the land they own and manage, absentee landlords do not take much interest in the land. They drain local wealth, particularly that of rural areas and the Third World. At the time question, Palestine was definitly part of the third world, about 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins. The Zionist sought to change this, and they did. In 1937 the Peel Commission (a British Royal Commission of inquiry) issues a report that concluded that the Jews in Palestine (along with the work of the British Administration) had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.
Palestine Royal Commission (1937), pp. 241-242

1. The Jews of Israel accept the sovereignty of the Islamic state which should God willing be in place at the end of such a truce, THIS IS A MUST FOR MUSLIMS around the world for just an agreement to be respected. As Muslims we cannot let you take this land and say it is yours. You can own land within the Islamic state, but you cannot say it is not part of that state.

How is that fair? If a Jew came up to you and said you must accept Jewish sverereignty they would say never. To make this claim is ridiculous, and it would lead to Jewish deaths, destruction of Jewish prayer areas, much more.

This demand is not only unsuitable, but if you were a lawyer tring to negotiate I would fire you.

2. The Jews in their personal affairs, within their own towns and cities would be free to live by their own laws as based upon their scripture and this would have to be respected by the Muslims. But when dealing with Muslims they would have to do so through the laws found in the Shariah and respect the external foreign policies of the Muslim state also.

Or you could leave it as it is now. Full Muslim control over the Temple Mount, and Muslims may practice there religion freely just like Sikhs and Bahai's.

3. The Jews would have to pay the Jiziyah, for the protection of the Islamic state they lived in and could levy their own taxes to run their own affairs.

That is just plain funny. If the Jews ever made Muslims pay a tax for "protection" the Islamic world would scream like a bunch of wild babies. What would the Jews be proected from "riots against them like the riots in palestine against the Jews before '48?

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/britainriots.html
http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Arab-Israeli_Conflict_1_Pre-State_Palestine.asp
http://www.aish.com/Israel/articles/Reflections_on_a_riot.asp

4. Jews could choose to move to this land if they wished and buy land there if they wished, as they could to any part of such a future Muslim state, other than the land of the two holy sanctuaries.

Is that fair, especially since Jews give you cotrol over your site? Oh wait, us Non-Muslims are second class citizens to you. Your elitist and supremist attitude is compeltly "fair" to your insane moral code.

5. Each Jewish family or community would have to negotiate a compensation settlement with the Palestinians whose land they are living on if it was stolen in the first place. Where the Palestinian people could have a piece of land back if they wished or the Jews could buy it off them if they could agree a price between themselves. Such deals are likely given that the original inhabitants of that land would be long dead and so their heirs would not be able to all live on it anyway so makes sense for them to sell it and split the proceeds.

6. All Such agreements would have to be respected by the Muslim State forever more and couldn’t be reopened once agreed by the family and those whose land they are on but if the family wanted their land back, well it is theirs and it has to be returned to them and those who are living on it will have to buy somewhere else to live.

What happens if not such Truce or Agreement?

What will happen if there is no such truce or agreement between us?

Well the Muslim State, the Khilafate is going to come back, God willing soon. But sooner or later it will come about And if no such truce is in place they don’t have to respect any previous agreements signed through secularists like the PLO that don’t conform to Islamic standards.

Such a state would almost certainly make War upon Israel and attempt to destroy it, as we would see it as our duty to correct such a terrible historic wrong. Now maybe they would impose a just settlement to all parties afterwards… or perhaps they would deal with the Jews by expelling them all to Europe or even taking them as captives or worse for the Jews killing their men folk and enslaving the rest. All permissible in Islamic Law against a people behaving as the Jews of Israel are behaving.

So any of the above things could happen, so really its in the interests of the Palestinians, in the future interests of the Jews of Israel to make a truce now and when a future Islamic state comes about make a deal with them, a just settlement that will not compromise on Islamic law, but will see this conflict resolved once and for everyone’s benefit so future wars can be avoided.

The rest of your post is so laughable it is not even funny. How can I even respond to this, except to point you towards a history book and show you that your radical extremist views, and arrogance is just going to lead you to another downfall.

Your solution makes as much sense as Jews negotiating and taking palestinian homes because the Palestinians lived on the land of there ancestors 2,000 years ago.

Both of your religious claims on the land are dumb and will never be recongnized by the world.

Your in a dream land. WAKE UP.

 

[rav]

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. . . . Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it."
-- Local Arab leader
to British Peel Commission, 1937

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. ​

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. ​

 

[eagleye]

1. The Jews of Israel accept the sovereignty of the Islamic state which should God willing be in place at the end of such a truce, THIS IS A MUST FOR MUSLIMS around the world for just an agreement to be respected. As Muslims we cannot let you take this land and say it is yours. You can own land within the Islamic state, but you cannot say it is not part of that state.

does not sound as a suggestion, but set condition post-war by a victorious.

2. The Jews in their personal affairs, within their own towns and cities would be free to live by their own laws as based upon their scripture and this would have to be respected by the Muslims. But when dealing with Muslims they would have to do so through the laws found in the Shariah and respect the external foreign policies of the Muslim state also.

hypothetically, if the Jews win a war you going to be abide by Jewish laws. is it OK by you? (as you expect for Jews to take it as OK)

3. The Jews would have to pay the Jiziyah, for the protection of the Islamic state they lived in and could levy their own taxes to run their own affairs.

is it OK Jews will do the same to you if happens you are be at their sovereignty?

4. Jews could choose to move to this land if they wished and buy land there if they wished, as they could to any part of such a future Muslim state, other than the land of the two holy sanctuaries.

if such condition delivered to you?

5. Each Jewish family or community would have to negotiate a compensation settlement with the Palestinians whose land they are living on if it was stolen in the first place. Where the Palestinian people could have a piece of land back if they wished or the Jews could buy it off them if they could agree a price between themselves. Such deals are likely given that the original inhabitants of that land would be long dead and so their heirs would not be able to all live on it anyway so makes sense for them to sell it and split the proceeds.

Palestinians??? is it not Islamic matters?

6. All Such agreements would have to be respected by the Muslim State forever more and couldn’t be reopened once agreed by the family and those whose land they are on but if the family wanted their land back, well it is theirs and it has to be returned to them and those who are living on it will have to buy somewhere else to live.

and such if the opposite occur would you take it as OK?

 

[eagleye]

What happens if not such Truce or Agreement?

What will happen if there is no such truce or agreement between us?

Truce is synonymous to cease fire between forces which you confusing with surrender conditions, for the lost party. quite different.

 

[islamway]

Our Struggle with the Jews is a Struggle for Existence, Not a Struggle for Land

Source: Al-Asaalah Magazine, Issue 30 (pg. 5-6)
Translator: abu maryam
Produced by: al-manhaj.com
The enemies of Islaam and the ignorant people that follow them are trying to portray the reality of the struggle against the Jews as a struggle for land and borders, and as a problem of refugees and water ports. And they make it seem as if it is possible to end this struggle with peaceful coexistence and by compensating the refugees, rectifying their condition of living, dispersing them throughout the land and establishing a weak petty secular state, which will live under the Zionist power and which will serve as a shield for the Zionist state (against their surrounding enemies).
But all of these people don’t realize that our struggle with the Jews goes way back, ever since the first Islamic state was established in Madeenah with Muhammad (SAWS) the Messenger sent to all of mankind, as its leader. Allaah has related to us in the Qur'ân, the reality of the Jews’ malice and hatred for the ummah of Islaam and Tawheed, as he says: “You will surely find that the people with the most enmity towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists.”
[Surah Al-Maa’idah: 82]

So see how Allaah has placed the Jews before the polytheists in their hatred and enmity (towards the Muslims). Even though they are united in their disbelief, they differ (from others) in their (immense) hatred towards the ummah of Muhammad (SAWS), as Allaah says: “The Jews and the Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their religion (way).” [Surah Al-Baqarah: 120]

And ever since the first hour in which the Muslims let the beautiful fragrance of Islaam flow through it (Madeenah), the Jews were there showing enmity to the Muslims and their Prophet. So our Prophet, Muhammad (SAWS), was not safe from the harm of the Jews amongst their ranks. They tried to kill him three times. One time, they tried to kill him by putting a heavy rock on his head. Another time was when they placed poison in the forearm of a goat (for him to eat). And a third case was when the Jewish boy, Lubaid bin al-A’asam, may Allaah’s curse be on him, put a magic spell on him.

And lo, there are the Americans, supplying the Jews with the most ferocious and harmful weapons of destruction, so that they can kill the Muslim children, women and elderly people of Palestine. And they preoccupied the world with their American elections for the purpose of drawing attention away from the Jewish massacre and butchering of the Muslim people of Palestine.

And lo! There are the British, who supply the Jews with loud and explosive ammunition, which when used result in horrific deaths and everlasting handicapping for the youth of Palestine. So this ummah (nation of Palestinians) are open prey - whether young or old, infant or woman – in the hands of the Jews and their supporters.

And lo! There are the supporters of the Jews, who preoccupy the ummah and draw their attention away from the casualties suffered by the Muslim people of Palestine. And they make the people blind to the crimes committed by the Jews by broadcasting the Olympics and other worthless programs, which only make the ummah numb and put it to sleep!

Don’t the Muslims know that our struggle against the Jews is a struggle of Creed and a struggle of Religious livelihood? Don’t they realize that it is a struggle of culture, a struggle to remain in existence, a struggle of identification? Wasn’t it the Jews who set fire to Al-Masjid Al-Aqsaa? Weren’t they the ones who initiated archeological excavations under it, (ruining its foundation), so that afterward it can crumble on its own?? Weren’t they the ones who killed Muslims while they were prostrating in the month of Ramadaan in Masjid Al-Khaleel?!? Did they not cut open the stomachs of pregnant women, murder babies and set fire to the pastures and the farmlands!? Wasn’t it the Jews who transformed the masjids of Palestine into bars of alcohol and gambling?! Did they not turn them into compounds for animals and garbage dumps?!?

Then after all of this, it is said: “Our struggle against the Jews is a struggle for land and a border dispute!!” And the desired solution is to establish a petty Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, so that the followers of the three monotheistic – or so they claim - faiths can live in it. Are these people ignorant of the fact that the only Religion acceptable in the sight of Allaah is Islaam? Or are they ignorant of the fact that Ibraheem is free and absolved from the polytheism and idolatry the Jews and Christians are upon. “Ibraaheem was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but rather he was Haneef (worshipping Allaah alone), a Muslim. And he was not from the polytheists.” [Surah Aali ‘Imraan: 67]

Indeed, the only solution, which the Jews will understand, is Jihaad – done with its proper conditions – to raise high the Word of Allaah. The Jews do not want peace, rather they only want that this ummah surrender and submit itself to them, and that it bow and debase itself to them. And they want that it wipe out the word Jihaad from its vocabulary! They want them to become slaves, employees and laborers for them, having the right to beat them with their shoes and lash them with their whips whenever they feel like it!

Our real struggle with the Jews will not end by setting up a withered state that doesn’t raise the banner of Islaam nor establishes the Laws of Allaah. How can it come to an end when the Muslim recites in his prayer seventeen times - day and night – “And do not make us from those who gained Your Anger nor from those who went astray.” [Surah Al-Faatihah: 7]

Those who “gained Your Anger” are the Jews and those who “went astray” are the Christians, according to the unanimous agreement of the Tafseer scholars, and this is so until the Day of Judgement.

So the decisive battle in which the Jews will come to an end will most assuredly come to pass – it is inevitable. It will be a battle of Faith and a battle of servitude to Allaah. The Prophet (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “You will indeed fight against the Jews and you will kill them to the point where the rock and the tree will say: ‘O Muslim! O ‘Abdullaah (slave of Allaah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.’ Except for al-Gharqad for it is from the trees of the Jews.”

This is a true promise from the one who doesn’t speak from his own desire (Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), which confirms the true nature of our struggle against the Jews, unlike what the misguided and misguiding media is portraying.

 

[eagleye]

so the enmity is way back. the media do fool us to believe it is all geopolitical issue

 

[Trumble]

So to clarify my I regard Israel as immoral and illegal, built on stolen land and taken from the Muslims and Christians of that area and given the Jews who immigrated from other parts of the World. I believe it should therefore be destroyed, wiped off the map as a nation.

They actually bought most of it (or at least the bits anybody actually wanted) from the owners at the time, but why let the facts get in the way?

Pretty much the same can be said about every other nation on the planet. Each was "stolen" from somebody else in some way or other, the only thing different is the timescales. As you implied yourself, the current generation of Israelis were born there. It's their home, all they know and they aren't going anywhere, nor submitting to anybody. End of story. The only way to peace is a genuine two state solution.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Same goes for the kids being born in Palestine, or at least those that get to survive.

 

[snakelegs]

islamway,
if the article you posted is true, apparently i was wrong. i thought the conflict was against the political movement of zionism and not against the jews.
if the article is true, then no matter what israel did - it wouldn't make any difference - the hate wouldn't go away.
does this mean that the zionists who try to label muslim anger as "antisemitic" to manipulate and negate criticism are not just doing a clever manipulation - but they're right?
oy.

 

[abdmez]

islamway,
if the article you posted is true, apparently i was wrong. i thought the conflict was against the political movement of zionism and not against the jews.
if the article is true, then no matter what israel did - it wouldn't make any difference - the hate wouldn't go away.
does this mean that the zionists who try to label muslim anger as "antisemitic" to manipulate and negate criticism are not just doing a clever manipulation - but they're right?
oy.

I guess so.

our struggle against the Jews

It is your bigoted struggle.

 

[Jibril]

I guess so.



It is your bigoted struggle.

The palestinian struggle against Israel is not a bigoted one. It is a struggle against oppression and one in which all people of conscience regardless of religion, support the Palestinians in. This is one reason why Israel is one of the most detested countries in the world. And not just among Muslims but among Europeans, Africans, Asians, and even Latin Americans. Nobody likes Israel because people inherently recognize oppression when they see it.

 

[arabiyyah]

The palestinian struggle against Israel is not a bigoted one. It is a struggle against oppression and one in which all people of conscience regardless of religion, support the Palestinians in. This is one reason why Israel is one of the most detested countries in the world. And not just among Muslims but among Europeans, Africans, Asians, and even Latin Americans. Nobody likes Israel because people inherently recognize oppression when they see it.

wow, i never knew latinos even knew about palestine lol.

 

[abdmez]

The palestinian struggle against Israel is not a bigoted one. It is a struggle against oppression and one in which all people of conscience regardless of religion, support the Palestinians in. This is one reason why Israel is one of the most detested countries in the world. And not just among Muslims but among Europeans, Africans, Asians, and even Latin Americans. Nobody likes Israel because people inherently recognize oppression when they see it.

I am a Palestinian. Jordan has treated us just as bad. Sudan, and Russia opress more then Israel, and I would rather live in Israel where I can practive my religion freely, then live in Shia run Iran as a Sunni for sure.

I and my family are in the cross fire. Are you? If so then tell me your thoughts on the conflict. If not then you shouldn't talk.

My cousin died from the conflict, want to guess who killed him?

 

[Jibril]

I am a Palestinian. Jordan has treated us just as bad. Sudan, and Russia opress more then Israel, and I would rather live in Israel where I can practive my religion freely, then live in Shia run Iran as a Sunni for sure.

I and my family are in the cross fire. Are you? If so then tell me your thoughts on the conflict. If not then you shouldn't talk.

My cousin died from the conflict, want to guess who killed him?

Just because Muslim countries are themselves oppressive it does not absolve Israel of their crimes.

And I don't think you can compare Jordanian mistreatement of Palestinians to the Israeli mistreatement. Israeli mistreatement is more brutal, more collective and more sustained.

Also, just because I am not palestinian it doesn't mean I can't express my views about the conflct. Its ridiculous for you to say I shouldn't talk. This forum is here so we can talk about such matters don't be so arrogant.

 

[Dawud_uk]

They actually bought most of it (or at least the bits anybody actually wanted) from the owners at the time, but why let the facts get in the way?

Pretty much the same can be said about every other nation on the planet. Each was "stolen" from somebody else in some way or other, the only thing different is the timescales. As you implied yourself, the current generation of Israelis were born there. It's their home, all they know and they aren't going anywhere, nor submitting to anybody. End of story. The only way to peace is a genuine two state solution.

i agree the ones who are there are not the original criminals, though they do continue with many criminal acts.

but a two state solution is not acceptable in islam, it is a non starter as no future islamic state would be bound to respect such conditions and such a peace and therefore why should the jews sign it?

Abu Abdullah

 

[islamway]

islamway,
if the article you posted is true, apparently i was wrong. i thought the conflict was against the political movement of zionism and not against the jews.
if the article is true, then no matter what israel did - it wouldn't make any difference - the hate wouldn't go away.
does this mean that the zionists who try to label muslim anger as "antisemitic" to manipulate and negate criticism are not just doing a clever manipulation - but they're right?
oy.

the article is 100% true.jazakallahkhair brother.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Just because Muslim countries are themselves oppressive it does not absolve Israel of their crimes.

And I don't think you can compare Jordanian mistreatement of Palestinians to the Israeli mistreatement. Israeli mistreatement is more brutal, more collective and more sustained.

Also, just because I am not palestinian it doesn't mean I can't express my views about the conflct. Its ridiculous for you to say I shouldn't talk. This forum is here so we can talk about such matters don't be so arrogant.

assalaamu alaykum,

exactly, this land belongs to the muslim ummah,

not to one people and no one has a monopoly of discussing this issue or any other due to their race of geography, though of-course someone who is there obviously should know more than the rest of us who are not.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah