Clarification on my Position on Israel

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SilentObserver said:
What that I'm an agnostic? I'll put it in if it makes you feel better.
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agnostics dont believe in God, they dont disbelief either. so how could an agnostic state God had given the land back to its rightful owners?

Abu Abdullah
 
Dawud_uk said:
agnostics dont believe in God, they dont disbelief either. so how could an agnostic state God had given the land back to its rightful owners?

Abu Abdullah
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Agnostics are unsure of the nature of God. Some are unsure of wether or not he exists. There are many different types of agnostics. I simply am unsure of his nature. I believe that organized religion is a manmade thing.
 
SilentObserver said:
Agnostics are unsure of the nature of God. Some are unsure of wether or not he exists. There are many different types of agnostics. I simply am unsure of his nature. I believe that organized religion is a manmade thing.
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how does the above go with

SilentObserver said:
What you described there is never going to happen, your fighting against God's will. God gave the land back to the rightful owners. It always belonged to the jews. The sooner muslims accept that, the sooner you can get back to....whatever it is that you would like to get back to.
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snakelegs said:
how does the above go with
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Whatever his nature, we must take what he has given as a sign of his will. What "is", is God's will. No matter what the arab countries have tried, despite having the odds stacked in their favor, they have not been able to defeat Israel. To me that's a sign of God's will. We don't need any organized religion to see that.
 
SilentObserver said:
Whatever his nature, we must take what he has given as a sign of his will. What "is", is God's will. No matter what the arab countries have tried, despite having the odds stacked in their favor, they have not been able to defeat Israel. To me that's a sign of God's will. We don't need any organized religion to see that.
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it could just as easily be said that the arabs haven't defeated israel because israel has superior weapons.
"what 'is', is god's will" - does this mean all the injustices that take place all over the planet are god's will?
well, i don't see that, and i have no idea what god's will is.
 
SilentObserver said:
Whatever his nature, we must take what he has given as a sign of his will. What "is", is God's will. No matter what the arab countries have tried, despite having the odds stacked in their favor, they have not been able to defeat Israel. To me that's a sign of God's will. We don't need any organized religion to see that.
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Anything that has happened is God's will by default.

The Crusaders controlled the Holy Land for much longer than Israel existed. What happened to them? Israel can win 1000 wars a year, but all it takes is 1 defeat for the Arabs to wipe them out. And then so much for your 'sign'.
 
SilentObserver said:
Whatever his nature, we must take what he has given as a sign of his will. What "is", is God's will. No matter what the arab countries have tried, despite having the odds stacked in their favor, they have not been able to defeat Israel. To me that's a sign of God's will. We don't need any organized religion to see that.
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Just because something is in a certain state now, doesn't mean it will always be in that state. You can rightly say that because the Jews are in Israel at the moment that it was a part of God's will that they are there, but no one can say that the future holds and say that God's will is that the Jew's will never leave- no one has the right to say they know what God is intending to do in the future. (unless God actually told them).
 
Trumble said:
The "muslim ummah" has nothing to do with it, nor any claim on it. It is precisely a matter of race (Jewish and Palestianian Arab) and geography, something everybody with any involvement in the conflict for its first fifty years or so was perfectly well aware of.





What do you mean "care"? They are very well aware of the fact, certainly, although, again, it is primarily because those nations are Arab NOT muslim. That fact has dominated their foreign policy for sixty years.. it had to. As to American help, they have never needed it.
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You are right when you call the guvernment arab, but the people are Muslims. They have never needed American help? Where do you think they get their wepons from and money? Dude what planet are you on!!!!!!:mad:
 
To be honest, this view will not lead to peace. It will lead to massive bloodshed. Maybe eventually you'll win, who knows. Then you can go start a re-reconquista ;). IMHO until this rigid uncompromising mindset changes Muslim countries will know little stability and development.
 
Stability? You talk about stability, this is something that we had in abundance when we had a Islamic state. Since the fall we have been working to re-build it. That is all we want a Islamic country that is non-secular and non-western, but with Islamic principles is that so much to ask.

The loss of Al-quds and the rise of Isreal was a big wake up call to us and we are working towards rebuilding our past glory. Why cant we have our own society where western ideals and democatcy is non-existant.
 
Dawud_uk said:
i would much prefer as little bloodshed as possible, a good negotiated settlement where the jews accept muslim sovereignty and the muslims accept a financial settlement for the land the jews took bt now dont want to leave.

Abu Abdullah
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why should Jews accept a foreigner govern their on homeland.
for someone who is basing it's claim via religion also should note they are too.
 
These settelements that Dawud is talking about are stolen property from the Muslims, so handding them back is essential if Isreal wants peace.
 
Malaikah said:
Just because something is in a certain state now, doesn't mean it will always be in that state. You can rightly say that because the Jews are in Israel at the moment that it was a part of God's will that they are there, but no one can say that the future holds and say that God's will is that the Jew's will never leave- no one has the right to say they know what God is intending to do in the future. (unless God actually told them).
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or no one can say God's will is to them to leave. whatever his plans, to us stays a mystery.
 
eagleye said:
why should Jews accept a foreigner govern their on homeland.
for someone who is basing it's claim via religion also should note they are too.
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Thats easy,..its not their homeland. Their homelands are bulgaria, romania, ukraine, russia, germany, usa, and a dozen other countries whence they came.
 
Look what ever the dispute, this will all become solved in due course. Whether the Mosiach comes to libirate the children of Isreal and than re-cliam Juruselum....oh wait they did that bit without him. Any way we will see what happens in the mean time we should establish as much peace in that region as possible. Also JUSTICE
 
SATalha said:
Look what ever the dispute, this will all become solved in due course. Whether the Mosiach comes to libirate the children of Isreal and than re-cliam Juruselum....oh wait they did that bit without him. Any way we will see what happens in the mean time we should establish as much peace in that region as possible. Also JUSTICE
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No peace without justice. Israel can't say they want peace while holding a gun to the head of the Palestinians. Until they stop oppressing Palestinians I will continue to believe that Israel has no right to exist since they have taken this right away from the Palestinians.
 
Jibril said:
Thats easy,..its not their homeland. Their homelands are bulgaria, romania, ukraine, russia, germany, usa, and a dozen other countries whence they came.
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wow, so many homelands :D
you basing on what it is not their homeland???
 

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