College Bars Muslim Student For Wearing Veil

[Blackpool]

Dear, Titus.

I understand if you have opinion that is sad. But actually I didn't talk about Muslim women in another place. I talked only about Muslim women in Indonesia.

There are some women in Indonesia who wear veil after they married and they have no activity out of the house because their husbands forbade them.
However, they are not sad because they have knew they should wear veil and probably their husbands would ban them working or go anywhere after they marry their husband.
And if they decided to marry their husbands, that because they agree to accept this condition. Muslim women have a right to refuse a marriage proposal.

My sister friend refused a marriage proposal because she didn't want to wear veil. A woman who wear veil refused my uncle marriage proposal. Also, I have a friend in high school, she is academy graduates but she decided to accept marriage proposal from an Islamic teacher, then she wears veil and became a housewife.

So once the lady marries a man she is not allowed to step out of the house, do the things she likes to do or allowed to work? She has to stay in the house and clean up after him whilst he enjoys his freedom? I echoe 'Titus'" words of "that is sad." That is like slavery.
I hope you don't support this mentality...?

 

[ardianto]

So once the lady marries a man she is not allowed to step out of the house, do the things she likes to do or allowed to work? She has to stay in the house and clean up after him whilst he enjoys his freedom? I echoe 'Titus'" words of "that is sad." That is like slavery.
I hope you don't support this mentality...?

Who said I support this mentality. ;D

Read again my post and you will be understand why I said "they are not sad". But, okay, I explain.

There is a girl. One day her daddy asks her "A guy want to marry you. But if you marry him you should wear veil and you are not allowed to have activity out of the house".
In every case like this a girl have two options, Accept or not accept this marriage proposal.
She is allowed to refuse to marry this guy if she doesn't like him or she disagree with condition after married. Also, she is allowed to wait another guy.
However, if she is agree to accept him as a husband, she must follow that condition as a consequence. And this is not slavery because no one forced her to marry this guy.

In Islam women have a right to refuse a marriage proposal. Forced marriage is not based on Islamic rules but based on tradition in some culture.

Sadly, forced marriage are still happen in some Muslims community. That why I said "I didn't talk about Muslim women in another place", because I didn't want to talk about another culture tradition.

 

[ardianto]

I hope you don't support this mentality...?

Okay, okay, I understand what you mean with "don't support this mentality".

Of course I cannot support someone becomes a slave, but I cannot prevent them to chose their way of life, because ......

First. There is no rule in Islam that ban a woman becomes a slave for the husband.

Second. Those women are not little child. They are adult and they have a right to make their own decision.

However, a man who want to marry a woman must explain, "If you marry me, you must follow my rule. And my rule is ....... ".
If the woman agree to accept this rule, this man can marry her. But, if the woman disagree, this man is not allowed to force her.

I have a true story. Few years ago my sister friend told me.
"A guy want to marry me. But he told me, if I agree to marry him, I must stop working and I should wear a veil that cover my face except my eyes"..
"So, would you marry him ?".
"Are you kidding ?. No .. !".
Then she refused his marriage proposal. In the next year she married another guy. And now she has a kid and she is still working in an office..

 

[JaffaCake]

It's her choice and right to wear niqab.
It's their choice and right to disallow it.

Where's the problem?

 

[Uthman]

Greetings,

It's her choice and right to wear niqab.
It's their choice and right to disallow it.

Where's the problem?

Well there seems to be a conflict between her rights and theirs and that's where the problem lies.

I think this whole issue exposes yet another indicator that orthodox Islam is incompatible with the West. The sooner everybody accepts it, the sooner we can work towards a solution.

 

[Snowflake]

Isn't is about time muslims got together and and set up a separate higher education system for muslims?

 

[Muezzin]

With a full mask like that I say this goes beyond mere anti-islamic sentiment. People simply don't trust people wearing masks. Its a deeply ingrained thing. I will bet you they wouldn't let me walk around campus in the summer wearing a ski mask either.

Couple that with the image Islam has garnered (unfair or not) for terrorism and it is rather predictable that her walking around in that is going to alarm some people and cause all kinds of administrative headaches. I can not fault the school for this decision. She could at least make her face visible and keep the rest of her covered so she is identifiable.

And no, her being the only one in the school wearing it doesn't make her identifiable. It gives cover for anybody else to pose as her. We see a black robe walking around we can't be sure its her.

You may have missed the part where she said she'd remove it if asked to for identification purposes.

Why black by the way? That just plays further into the psyche to alarm folks.

Black goes with everything.

 

[Raphael]

I have heard a lot of evidence to suggest that the niqab is fardh, of course there are two sides to that argument....

From an outsiders point of view, it reiterates a deep rooted cultural difference that probably will not go away. The accepted "extremes" for both cultures is very little clothing or complete covering.

micro skirt in the west
and a niqab in the Muslim world.

I would hate to see the micro skirt accepted in the Muslim world (although it is accepted and tolerated in the Islamic world that thrives on tourism), so why expect that the niqab is accepted in the West?

How many Muslim forum members would be ok with a non-muslim girl living in say Pakistan demanding that she be allowed to wear whatever she likes to a madrassa?

Tolerance is a double edged sword.

 

[Muezzin]

I have heard a lot of evidence to suggest that the niqab is fardh, of course there are two sides to that argument....

From an outsiders point of view, it reiterates a deep rooted cultural difference that probably will not go away. The accepted "extremes" for both cultures is very little clothing or complete covering.

micro skirt in the west
and a niqab in the Muslim world.

I would hate to see the micro skirt accepted in the Muslim world (although it is accepted and tolerated in the Islamic world that thrives on tourism), so why expect that the niqab is accepted in the West?

I see your point, but...

How many Muslim forum members would be ok with a non-muslim girl living in say Pakistan demanding that she be allowed to wear whatever she likes to a madrassa?

Tolerance is a double edged sword.

....Bad example.

A madrassa is a place of religious learning and as such, students would be expected and required to adhere to religious rulings, including dress code. The college in question is not religious in nature.

Anyway, as I said earlier, inshallah the Muslim sister concerned will find a college that will accept her.

 

[Raphael]

I see your point, but...


....Bad example.

A madrassa is a place of religious learning and as such, students would be expected and required to adhere to religious rulings, including dress code. The college in question is not religious in nature.

Anyway, as I said earlier, inshallah the Muslim sister concerned will find a college that will accept her.

Point taken.

How about in a Muslim school then?

 

[Muezzin]

Point taken.

How about in a Muslim school then?

Ehh... The college in this news doesn't discriminate based on religion (supposedly).

A like for like example of what you're trying to show would use a secular college located in a predominantly Muslim country.

Then again, I could just be getting pedantic.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The counter example to a niqab on a New York Subway is a nude beach in Saudi Arabia. Good luck with either, though I suspect the muslim on the Subway would survive longer.

 

[جوري]

Point taken.

How about in a Muslim school then?

I am a fan of conservative school uniforms myself imposed upon all and wouldn't mind it in college either.. went to a catholic school where every other girl looked like a run away hooker.. Seeking an education should be about just that, not clothes or other extra curricular events which include everything from sniping to hemming.

I don't generally enjoy any posts that discuss clothing, enjoy them even less when these goys think they have a say on what a woman should wear.. I am not sure why it is an issue at all?.. .. people should be allowed to wear whatever they want within reason..

:wa:

 

[Muezzin]

The counter example to a niqab on a New York Subway is a nude beach in Saudi Arabia. Good luck with either, though I suspect the muslim on the Subway would survive longer.

Counter example doesn't work for two reasons:

1) Wearing a niqab on a New York Subway is legal. Public nudity in Saudi Arabia is categorically illegal. The Government wouldn't allow people to allot a part of a beach for such purpose, and even if they did, if caught they would be punished because their behaviour is illegal.

2) The article in this thread involves a single UK college policy's against dress of this kind. New York subways are irrelevant.

The reason why it's so difficult to draw an analogy is because countries with Islamic laws tend to clearly define the minimum amount of the body that must be covered in public. Non-Muslim countries also have public nudity laws, which may be waived in the cases of nude beaches and the like, which must be on private property secluded from the general public anyway.

The thing is, except for say, France, predominantly non-Muslim countries do not define a maximum amount of clothing that may be legally worn in public.

It's a non-issue in this case though. There must be other colleges whose policies will allow this Muslim sister to study with her niqab.

 

[aamirsaab]

There was a niqabi in the college I went to. Don't recall her having any problems related to wearing the niqab.

I can understand for ID purposes why niqab could pose a problem, but to be honest that's why students are given ID cards!

Also, you can hear their voice quite clearly; so if staff members do have any suspicion, they can just ask her.

There are so many ways of identifying a college student (or anyone for that matter), it really is unbelievable they didn't let her enroll on the basis of wearing niqab.

 

[cat eyes]

there will be some cranky teachers in that college who don't want the girl to wear the niqaab because it will simply make it easier for them to identify the girls face like everybody else they will be thousands of students. do you think a ignorant teacher has the time or patience to simply listen to a girls voice to figure out who she is because its clearly ignorance that they all have in that place and inshallaah she will find another college because they cannot and wont ever be able to understand why we muslims want to cover from head to toe