Compareing Islam and Christainty

[snakelegs]

I think that all three say that what you do DOES matter. While, for the Christian, one's own works don't earn you a spot in heaven; yet still, in the normal course of life, faith without works is understood to be meaningless. So it is that Jesus' own metaphor for the final judgment was a parable of separating sheep from goats based on how they had lived their lives in relation to providing forthe needs of "the least of these".

Thus, one would not deny the validity of deathbed confessions of faith. But is one lived a long life and never gave evidence of that faith in how one lived, it would seem reasonable that one might have to answer for the lack of fruit and question whether, to use another of Jesus' metaphors, one were really attached to the vine.

i guess i misunderstood. i thought that christians believe that faith alone guarantees you a spot in heaven. in any case, i think it's correct to say that there is more emphasis on faith than on works, whereas in islam and judaism both are required. (actually judaism is slightly different yet, but that's off topic).
there are laws governing the way muslims and jews live their life, down to the smallest act. i don't think there is an equivalent in christianity.
i think this is an important difference between the 2 faiths. and of course, christians have to have an atonement for original sin - that's another big difference i see.


mustafa

OK, I will grant that there are some who are honestly trying to learn. I was in that state of learning myself for a few weeks over Christmas break 26 years ago before Allah had mercy on me and guided me to Islam. From our perspective guidance comes but from Allah. If someone knows about the Message of Islam and he doesn't recite the shahada before his death, then I would not want to be in that person's shoes (so to speak, as we will all be naked) on that Day.

.

ok, i understand what you're saying.

 

[Talha777]

I think the essential difference between Islam and Christianity is the subject of tawheed (Oneness) of God. Tawheed is not just believing God is One, but acting upon that belief, by rejecting all false gods and idols, rejecting all intermediaries between man and God (such as priests), not taking any lords or minor "gods" beside Allah. This is how Islam is pure monotheism, all other religion I'm afraid deviates from this pure monotheism. The Christians say they believe in one God (heck even the Hindus claim to believe in one god who is anything and everything). All religions like to portray themselves as believing in one God. But Islam and only Islam stays true to this concept and its implications. In Christianity they say they have a triune god, One God but three distinct persons. This of course is limiting God and not befitting of His sacredness. At least Hindus believe One God with millions maybe infinite distinct persons. Hinduism in my opinion is a little more consistent with its beliefs that christianity. What is the essential difference between christian concept of God and hindu concept, if christians believe in only One god, im afraid Hindus are right to say they too believe in only one God.

Someone in this thread said all religions deviate from pure monotheism, including Islam. This person said in Islam we believe in minor gods like jinns and angels. This is completely false. Jinns and Angels are not divine, they do not possess any of the exclusive qualities which define who God is. Jinn and Angels like we human beings have no power or authority of their own, whatever power they possess is what Allah has given them, and so He can easily remove such power from them. This is why we Muslims say Alhamdulillah, All Praise is to Allah, not to anyone else. No one else deserves any credit besides Allah and this is the essence of tawheed (oneness of God).

Here is a list of differences between Christian and Islamic concept of God

ISLAMIC: Allah is One, no distinct persons, no competing wills, no traces of schizophrenia whatsoever

CHRISTIAN: God is triune, has three distinct persons who are equally God yet equally distinct from the other persons

ISLAMIC: Allah is Eternal, without beginning, without end, independent, no need for nourishment or sustainance

CHRISTIAN: God has beginning (John 1:1), God is subject to life and death (Jesus),

ISLAMIC: Allah is not begotten, nor He begets, such are attributes which negate divinity. Allah does not possess any quality or attribute which negate His Divinity. All of His attributes and qualities are fixed and eternal, and possessing these attributes alone is the definition of God.

CHRISTIAN: God can be born and possess any qualities without losing His Godhood, i.e. God can become a human being without losing His Godhood, God can become defficient in knowledge without losing His Godhood, God can become subject to sin and temptation without losing His Godhood

ISLAMIC: There is nothing like unto Allah, human being cannot visibly conceive of Him, He can only be known through His attributes and qualities, but He is above and beyond His creation

CHRISTIAN: God looks like a man, he has a body and private parts, he can come down to earth through the womb of a woman and mingle with his creation

You'll notice Islamic concept of God has no parallel, but Christian concept sounds a lot like hinduism or paganism. Christian concept of Jesus is very similar to Hindu concept of Krishna.

 

[snakelegs]

talha,

You'll notice Islamic concept of God has no parallel, but Christian concept sounds a lot like hinduism or paganism.

i know muslims do not agree, but jews would argue that their concept of god is parallel, and i would agree.

 

[Talha777]

i know muslims do not agree, but jews would argue that their concept of god is parallel, and i would agree.

Judaism is probably the closest, but even it has some deviations. Only Islam teaches a pure monotheistic concept of God which is called tawheed.

 

[Resigned]

You'll notice Islamic concept of God has no parallel, but Christian concept sounds a lot like hinduism or paganism. Christian concept of Jesus is very similar to Hindu concept of Krishna.

You'll notice also that islam has borrowed heavily from both Christianity and Judasim, both of which are much older faiths.

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for.

However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

Whilst we're waiting, let us contemplate the demographically validated scenario:

A relatively small percentage of humans do not concern themselves with matters of divinity, and a sizable minority deny the existence of all gods but one, a token, all-purpose, one-stop-shopping god of convenience . These folks come in different flavours, most conspicuously: Muslim, Christian, Jew.

They are inspired to spend a goodly amount of time and effort in sending one another to their respective makers. They voice the obligatory platitudes, but by their deeds shall ye know them.

Curiously, however, folks who have not allowed a monopolistic spirit realm to develop, notably the folks of India and China, largely polytheistic nations, are on the rise. By dint of population, growing wealth, and political influence, their ascendency portends an altered global mindset as all the gods shall be accorded a place in the ineluctable unfolding of human destiny.

Let us hope the tired, blood-drenched, monotheistic enclaves greet the arrival of the legions of deistic entities with relief and gratitude.

Polytheism is the irrefutable conclusion. Multiple, bustling deities - with a formidable union!

 

[Talha777]

You'll notice also that islam has borrowed heavily from both Christianity and Judasim, both of which are much older faiths.

Tell me the date judaism began and the date christianity began. I can tell you that Islam as a religion has always existed since God (Allah) has been sending prophets. The words judaism and christianity are not to be found anywhere in their respective scriptures. Islam is merely an Arabic word which the Quran uses to describe the true religion, which all the Prophets, including Moses and Jesus followed. True they may not have said our religion is called Islam, but Islam means submission, it defines the relationship between man and God, and the relationship between all the Prophets and their true followers with God was one of submission. In this way Islam is indeed the one and only true, universal religion. "Judaism" and "Christianity" are perversions of Islam. One religion does not recognize the Promised Messiah and the other makes the Promised Messiah into a deity. So the God of Islam (Allah) sent the Seal of Prophets to restore the religion of Islam and purify it from all the deviations and heresies of the christians and jews.

Curiously, however, folks who have not allowed a monopolistic spirit realm to develop, notably the folks of India and China, largely polytheistic nations, are on the rise. By dint of population, growing wealth, and political influence, their ascendency portends an altered global mindset as all the gods shall be accorded a place in the ineluctable unfolding of human destiny.

I see you realize how materialistic idolatry is. If success in this world, political and economic dominance are the halmark of the true religion, than perhaps Islam is false. But Islam teaches to give precedence to faith over all worldly affairs and cultivates in its followers the moral quality of zuhd which is other-worldliness. For the believers this world is a prison, but for the disbelievers who follow their desires and set up partners and equals with God, this world is their paradise.

Let us hope the tired, blood-drenched, monotheistic enclaves greet the arrival of the legions of deistic entities with relief and gratitude

I also see you like to promote false stereotypes. If polytheism is so spick and span and unviolent and unbloody, how do you account for the murderous campaign of Gujarat in 2002 when Hindu mobs of ordinary devout Hindus, not soldiers or terrorists, ordinary people, went on a killing frenzy, burning alive Muslims by the thousands, ripping open pregnant women, and tossing infants into a burning pyre? We Muslims never do such things. True we defend ourselves from aggression because we are not pacifists but we uphold justice, which is why Muslims are fighting the disbelievers in afghanistan, iraq, palestine, etc. But we are only fighting those who invade and started killing us first especially America.

 

[Resigned]

Tell me the date judaism began and the date christianity began. I can tell you that Islam as a religion has always existed since God (Allah) has been sending prophets. The words judaism and christianity are not to be found anywhere in their respective scriptures. Islam is merely an Arabic word which the Quran uses to describe the true religion, which all the Prophets, including Moses and Jesus followed. True they may not have said our religion is called Islam, but Islam means submission, it defines the relationship between man and God, and the relationship between all the Prophets and their true followers with God was one of submission. In this way Islam is indeed the one and only true, universal religion. "Judaism" and "Christianity" are perversions of Islam. One religion does not recognize the Promised Messiah and the other makes the Promised Messiah into a deity. So the God of Islam (Allah) sent the Seal of Prophets to restore the religion of Islam and purify it from all the deviations and heresies of the christians and jews.[/QUOTE[
Completely predictable, actually. This is just so much boilerplate reciting of clichés and slogans completely without substantiation or support.

Your claims are the claims of any number of zealots who use hate as a means of propagating their ideologies. Brave Islamist fighters are addressing this issue by the way. They're car bombing their fellow muslims in Iraq and elsewhere. This all makes perfect sense, right?

I see you realize how materialistic idolatry is. If success in this world, political and economic dominance are the halmark of the true religion, than perhaps Islam is false. But Islam teaches to give precedence to faith over all worldly affairs and cultivates in its followers the moral quality of zuhd which is other-worldliness. For the believers this world is a prison, but for the disbelievers who follow their desires and set up partners and equals with God, this world is their paradise.

Does that come with a jingle?

Apparently you have chosen to embrace the very materialism you claim to so despise by living in the West. It’s actually comical, Yours is a pathological manifestation of a gigantic need for attention that causes you to mount the battlements, waving a bloody shirt screaming at the top of their lungs “LOOK AT ME! I AM SUFFERING FOR MY BELIEFS”

And you do so by exploiting the advantages of the West. The very advantages simply not available in your islamist paradise.

I also see you like to promote false stereotypes. If polytheism is so spick and span and unviolent and unbloody, how do you account for the murderous campaign of Gujarat in 2002 when Hindu mobs of ordinary devout Hindus, not soldiers or terrorists, ordinary people, went on a killing frenzy, burning alive Muslims by the thousands, ripping open pregnant women, and tossing infants into a burning pyre? We Muslims never do such things. True we defend ourselves from aggression because we are not pacifists but we uphold justice, which is why Muslims are fighting the disbelievers in afghanistan, iraq, palestine, etc. But we are only fighting those who invade and started killing us first especially America.

More clichés and slogans. Honestly, is all this scripted?

We would have more respect for you and your ill thought out ranting if you supported your Islamic utopias by actually living in them and not waxing nostalgically about them from the lands that you have so much contempt for! Does the term Hypocrite mean anything to you?

By all means hate us, and what the West stands for, but by living here you only devalue your arguments!

 

[Talha777]

Let's get one thing straight my friend. The West is diseased and Islam is its cure. If you are living in an immoral environment you have two choices a) leave, or b) reform it. I have chosen the latter option.

 

[Resigned]

Let's get one thing straight my friend. The West is diseased and Islam is its cure. If you are living in an immoral environment you have two choices a) leave, or b) reform it. I have chosen the latter option.

How are we to believe that someone such as you is going to reform anything?

I don’t believe that misogynistic attitudes towards women, and an ideology of self hate is going to cure anything.

I will acknowledge that I prefer your honesty in being the openly hostile, jihad-proclaiming pious moslem that we in West call "radical" or "extremist," because I know where you stand. You're basically just a faithful moslem who employs taqiyya minimally and abides by the literal interpretation of the Koran and sunnah.

I'd just rather deal with unabashed fundamentalists like you, versus the "moderate" who ends up with the He was such a nice guy, I can't believe he'd do this! impromptu eulogy after murdering a bunch of infidels to please a deity. The former are easier to spot and imprison before they get their jihad on.

 

[Talha777]

My friend your ignorance is showing each time you post. I seriously recommend you read a book about Islam, better yet read the Holy Quran and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and see what this religion actually teaches, rather than confusing what a tiny fraction of Muslims do as Islam.

First you mentioned taqiya. Taqiya is a practice in Shi'aism, a dissident sect which only 10% of Muslims worldwide follow. Sunni Muslims do not practice taqiya, we must be 100% honest and truthful about our beliefs.

Second of all jihad is a religious duty to defend our religion, not just with the sword, but also with the tongue and the pen. And there is also the jihad against our own desires.

 

[Resigned]

My friend your ignorance is showing each time you post. I seriously recommend you read a book about Islam, better yet read the Holy Quran and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and see what this religion actually teaches, rather than confusing what a tiny fraction of Muslims do as Islam.

First you mentioned taqiya. Taqiya is a practice in Shi'aism, a dissident sect which only 10% of Muslims worldwide follow. Sunni Muslims do not practice taqiya, we must be 100% honest and truthful about our beliefs.

Second of all jihad is a religious duty to defend our religion, not just with the sword, but also with the tongue and the pen. And there is also the jihad against our own desires.

Ah. Here we have an instructive example of how to define a “Real Muslim”™

I’ll point out ahead of time that what follows is a perfectly circular argument, but here goes:

Anybody who disputes the Islamic dogma of a Real Muslim™is not themselves a Real Muslim™.

How do we know this?

Because a Real Muslim™ is anyone who does not dispute Islamic dogma.

How do we know this?

Because anybody who DOES dispute Islamic dogma is not a Real Muslim™

Therefore:

There are no Real Muslims™ that dispute any Islamic dogma.


A perfectly vicous circle.

How convenient.

 

[snakelegs]

How are we to believe that someone such as you is going to reform anything?

I don’t believe that misogynistic attitudes towards women, and an ideology of self hate is going to cure anything.

I will acknowledge that I prefer your honesty in being the openly hostile, jihad-proclaiming pious moslem that we in West call "radical" or "extremist," because I know where you stand. You're basically just a faithful moslem who employs taqiyya minimally and abides by the literal interpretation of the Koran and sunnah.

I'd just rather deal with unabashed fundamentalists like you, versus the "moderate" who ends up with the He was such a nice guy, I can't believe he'd do this! impromptu eulogy after murdering a bunch of infidels to please a deity. The former are easier to spot and imprison before they get their jihad on.

not sure what you're trying to say here. are you lumping all muslims together?

 

[Talha777]

He is only here to spew his venomous hatred for Muslims and our beliefs. these kind of people should be banned from the forum.

 

[Resigned]

He is only here to spew his venomous hatred for Muslims and our beliefs. these kind of people should be banned from the forum.

Gee whiz. Throwing the hatred for Muslims and our beliefs weasel, are we?

I'll invite anyone, moderator or otherwise, to read through the various threads and comment on who is spewing hatred.

 

[MustafaMc]

I will acknowledge that I prefer your honesty in being the openly hostile, jihad-proclaiming pious moslem that we in West call "radical" or "extremist," because I know where you stand. You're basically just a faithful moslem who employs taqiyya minimally and abides by the literal interpretation of the Koran and sunnah.

I'd just rather deal with unabashed fundamentalists like you, versus the "moderate" who ends up with the He was such a nice guy, I can't believe he'd do this! impromptu eulogy after murdering a bunch of infidels to please a deity. The former are easier to spot and imprison before they get their jihad on.

My, my, my ... you sound just like Jimmy Swaggert or any number of Muslim hating Christian evangelist or other talk show host like that Savage guy.

Now how in the world would you know what a "True Muslim" is? How many do you know?

If you knew anything of Islam, then you would know that a lot of what the West perceives as Islam is a modern day corruption by desparately oppressed people.

 

[Talha777]

My, my, my ... you sound just like Jimmy Swaggert

And like all the jimmy swaggarts of the world he will, insha Allah, be disgraced and humiliated.

 

[Resigned]

And like all the jimmy swaggarts of the world he will, insha Allah, be disgraced and humiliated.

Do think it promotes your religious faith to invoke the name of god in your petty attempts to spread your message of hate?

I've noticed your desperate attempts with the attendant lack of ability, talent, albeit apparent pleasure, at turning matters of religious faith into a juvenile exercise in vindictiveness.

 

[MustafaMc]

Wrong. I’m not Christian. Secondly, I hold no religious faith or politico-religious affiliation which explicitly sets forth that those who do not believe as I do are worthy only of hate and revulsion.

...but do you disagree that you sound as what I said?

Ah, yes. You've employed the "victim" moniker. Yes, exploiting the benefits of living in the West, I can understand what a victim you must be.

I am a Muslim American and I don't claim to be a victim. I was trying to get you to see that living in a refuge camp in Palestine after being kicked off of your land can make one do desparate things that are not in agreement with one's faith.

Yes, please explain your victimhood amidst the threats.

You obviously have no empathy for people in desparate circumstances.

 

[Keltoi]

...but do you disagree that you sound as what I said?
I am a Muslim American and I don't claim to be a victim. I was trying to get you to see that living in a refuge camp in Palestine after being kicked off of your land can make one do desparate things that are not in agreement with one's faith.

You obviously have no empathy for people in desparate circumstances.

I understand what you're saying, but why aren't thousands of Tibetans blowing themselves and other people up? Why don't Native Americans strap on bombs and blow up the local Wal-Mart? Pointing to injustice can only go so far. Do you believe suicide terrorism is strictly a by-product of oppression, or is there something within Islam(either politically or religiously) that promotes such actions?

 

[snakelegs]

repeating:

Originally Posted by Resigned
How are we to believe that someone such as you is going to reform anything?

I don’t believe that misogynistic attitudes towards women, and an ideology of self hate is going to cure anything.

I will acknowledge that I prefer your honesty in being the openly hostile, jihad-proclaiming pious moslem that we in West call "radical" or "extremist," because I know where you stand. You're basically just a faithful moslem who employs taqiyya minimally and abides by the literal interpretation of the Koran and sunnah.

I'd just rather deal with unabashed fundamentalists like you, versus the "moderate" who ends up with the He was such a nice guy, I can't believe he'd do this! impromptu eulogy after murdering a bunch of infidels to please a deity. The former are easier to spot and imprison before they get their jihad on.

not sure what you're trying to say here. are you lumping all muslims together?