Death in a scientific point of view and Islam point of view

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Wow uncle woodrow i never thought of it like that.


You know i remember when i was 9 or 10 i use to look at really old people, 90ish people and think "thats scary, i never want to be that feeble, maybe if i stay strong and healthy i wont be like that". I wasnt denying death, i just never wanted to reach that state.

We are babies, we turn to adults, then if we're wise we become elders, if not we turn back into babies...
 
Muj4h1d4 said:
:salamext:



Come again ... :?
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i read this before in an islamic book and it was explained.

basically when your intelligent/wise/have emaan, Allah will bless you with honour etc so even in your old age you will have patience and gratitude and wont act like a baby. But you will notice there are people who in their old age go "senile", its because they havent got much emaan..
 
tetsujin said:
The Long Island lobster deaths are a well documented case. If that is the basis for the person declaring "natural" life expectancy of the lobster to be 50-100 years then I don't know what to say to him/her. Those are figures that relate to the rise of the fishing industry in the early 19th century, (which is an external factor) and quite obviously the average life expectancy of lobsters dropped as they were being eaten. That is not to say that the natural life expectancy is the same.

All we know is that they are capable of living beyond a 100 years, and from some old reports 150 years, keeping in mind that we are speaking of natural causes and not external factors such as fishing or terminal illness.

David Foster Wallace (2005). Consider the Lobster and Other Essays. Little, Brown & Company. ISBN 0-31-615611-6.


More importantly, they do not experience the process of getting old with age. A 100 year old lobster can be just as healthy and functional as a 50 or 25 year old lobster and it is that key to retaining their youthful vitality as they age that scientists are interested in. That may well be the fountain of youth.
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100, 150 or even 1000, at some point every living thing will DIE...
cell death happens in all creatures not just human beings ( I have posted a mini article on 'apoptosis' which is neat, natural way for cells to die w/out introducing an inflammatory response ( a clean death)... we might have different composition and different cycles for these events-- but when you get down to the basics we all share the same genetic code in different isomeric arrangements. starting transcription and translation is almost identical, eukaryotic transcription is generally more complex than prokaryotic transcription-- the general mechanisms don't change even if they happen to go into arrest in on and on speed dial for another-- that is an expansive topic and I don't have the luxury to go into molecular biology on LI or any forum for that matter.. certainly easy to buy a molecular bio book from amazon and browse through it...

You want to find that special gene Ret, Bax, Ras, Gag or pol, FoxM1B gene or whatever one is popular this month, use a retrovirus or a liposome, and introduce it into a human being and voila the 'fountain of youth'.. all I can say is be my guest, and You should try it first on children suffering from Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria syndrome... I can however, save all that money spent on worthless research and affirm that we are all going to die-- I gurantee it!-- It is the NATURAL progression of events, and it is what Allah has decreed for all living things!



cheers!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
100, 150 or even 1000, at some point every living thing will DIE...
cell death happens in all creatures not just human beings ( I have posted a mini article on 'apoptosis' which is neat, natural way for cells to die w/out introducing an inflammatory response ( a clean death)... we might have different composition and different cycles for these events-- but when you get down to the basics we all share the same genetic code in different isomeric arrangements. starting transcription and translation is almost identical, eukaryotic transcription is generally more complex than prokaryotic transcription-- the general mechanisms don't change even if they happen to go into arrest in on and on speed dial for another-- that is an expansive topic and I don't have the luxury to go into molecular biology on LI or any forum for that matter.. certainly easy to buy a molecular bio book from amazon and browse through it...
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Well yes, I suppose the very definition of life as you see it hinges on the experience of death.

I was more interested in why a living thing would die. On a time scale long enough you cannot escape every possible calamity that could befall you. So yes, living things will die. Will they die of natural causes, I don't know, will it they die of external factors, it's far more likely. As for cells dying a clean death, you're right, except that cells are constantly replaced. So my "definition" of death was "the inability of an organic body to regenerate or replenish its functional organs or parts." The whole issue with lobsters was that they just don't seem to degenerate natually. It's just some food for thought (no pun intended my lobster friends).


PurestAmbrosia said:
You want to find that special gene Ret, Bax, Ras, Gag or pol, FoxM1B gene or whatever one is popular this month, use a retrovirus or a liposome, and introduce it into a human being and voila the 'fountain of youth'.. all I can say is be my guest, and You should try it first on children suffering from Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria syndrome... I can however, save all that money spent on worthless research and affirm that we are all going to die-- I gurantee it!-- It is the NATURAL progression of events, and it is what Allah has decreed for all living things!
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You almost seem angry about it. Try to be a little more positive. Are you saying we should stop all medical research right now?
 
I don't think you know me or of me to assess whether I am positive or negative about it. I look at it from a different angle than you do. Aside from that I have no reason to want to live forever..I suppose some folks will wish to age a thousand or two.. it is their prerogative.. there is more to life than just being when there is no quality to life!..

as for stopping medical research. I personally would rather see it go where it is deserved not where it is squandered on nonesense!

One would think we'd try to annihilate some modern day killers like IDDM or HTN before we branch out into making 140 year old freaks last another hundred..but that is just me..


cheers!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
I don't think you know me or of me to assess whether I am positive or negative about it. I look at it from a different angle than you do. Aside from that I have no reason to want to live forever..I suppose some folks will wish to age a thousand or two.. it is their prerogative.. there is more to life than just being when there is no quality to life!..

as for stopping medical research. I personally would rather see it go where it is deserved not where it is squandered on nonesense!

cheers!
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Okay, that's fair enough. I just want to know if you see value in this research if it leads to a discovery that prevents the degeneration of our eyes, ears, and the rest of our body, as we grow old and increases the ability of our bodies to heal themselves because we still possess it.

I'm as stoic as anyone I know, and really I can't justify any one medical research over another.
 
when I was working on my masters, we had to constantly justify our research and the money we were spending, because our projects weren't 'esoteric' enough for those passing out grants.. luckily I left that behind in pursuit of something better at least in my opinion ..

still feel bad however, for poor Atul my research partner at the time, 16 months on the same project and still rejected in the end!

Research is alot like fashion, it is all about current trends and being stylish, if you are foolhardy enough to try to steer the winds in your direction you'd better hope you were independently wealthy or bob for your uncle because in the end you were still looking at being a lab tech-- but that is a topic for another day and another thread...

I think it is good to have the foresight and enough scientific knowledge to know of the projects that will not yield positive results... and focusing it on where it is actually needed... and fact is we are a long way yet from tackling some of the most common and very deadly diseases to branch out into arcane science to satisfy carnal and mundane urges of people who refuse to accept their mortality!

cheers!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
when I was working on my masters, we had to constantly justify our research and the money we were spending, because our projects weren't 'esoteric' enough for those passing out grants.. luckily I left that behind in pursuit of something better at least in my opinion ..

still feel bad however, for poor Atul my research partner at the time, 16 months on the same project and still rejected in the end!

Research is alot like fashion, it is all about current trends and being stylish, if you are foolhardy enough to try to steer the winds in your direction you'd better hope you were independently wealthy or bob for your uncle because in the end you were still looking at being a lab tech-- but that is a topic for another day and another thread...

I think it is good to have the foresight and enough scientific knowledge to know of the projects that will not yield positive results... and focusing it on where it is actually needed... and fact is we are a long way yet from tackling some of the most common and very deadly diseases to branch out into arcane science to satisfy carnal and mundane urges of people who refuse to accept their mortality!

cheers!
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I'm actually marketing/economics student, having realized that everything boils down to the ability to make money.
 

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