wilberhum
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 4,348
- Reaction score
- 339
I think Isambard is accurate.
Death penalty????
- Thread starter Mikayeel
- Start date
- Replies 261
- Views 30K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
جوري
Soldier Through It!
- Messages
- 27,759
- Reaction score
- 6,095
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Cost Comparisons:
Death Penalty Cases Vs Equivalent Life Sentence Cases
by Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
In comparing the cost of death penalty cases to other sentences, the studies are woefully incomplete.
Generally, such studies have one or more of the following problems.
1) All studies exclude the cost of geriatric care, recently found to be $69,000/inmate/yr. A significant omission from life sentence costs.
2) All studies exclude the cost savings of the death penalty, which is the ONLY sentence which allows for a plea bargain to a maximum life sentence. Such plea bargains accrue as a cost benefit to the death penalty, such benefit being the cost of trials and appeals for every such plea bargain. The cost savings would be for trial and appeals, an amount estimated to be at least $1 million per case. Depending upon jurisdiction, this may result in a zero net cost for the death penalty, depending on the number of plea bargains Vs the number of death penalty trials, or an actual net cost benefit.
3) FCC economist Dr. Paul Zimmerman finds that executions result in a huge cost benefit to society. "Specifically, it is estimated that each state execution deters somewhere between 3 and 25 murders per year (14 being the average). Assuming that the value of human life is approximately $5 million {i.e. the average of the range estimates provided by Viscussi (1993)}, our estimates imply that society avoids losing approximately $70 million per year on average at the current rate of execution all else equal." The study used state level data from 1978 to 1997 for all 50 states (excluding Washington D.C.). (1)
That is a cost benefit of $70 million per execution. 6 additional, recent studies support the deterrent effect. Deterrence report upon request.
No cost study has included such calculations.
Although we find it inappropriate to put a dollar value on life, evidently this is not uncommon for economists, insurers, etc.
We know that living murderers are infinitely more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers. There is no doubt that executions do save innocent lives. What value do you put on the lives saved? Certainly not less than $5 million.
4) a) Some studies compare the cost of a death penalty case, including pre trial, trial, appeals and incarceration, to only the cost of incarceration for 40 years, excluding all trial costs and appeals, for a life sentence. The much cited Texas "study" does this. Hardly an apples to apples cost comparison.
b) The pure deception in some cost "studies" is overt. It has been claimed that it costs $3.2 million/execution in Florida. That "study" decided to add the cost of the entire death penalty system in Florida ($57 million), which included all of the death penalty cases and dividing that number by only the number of executions (18). One could just have easily stated that the cost of the estimated 200 death row inmates was $285,000 per case.
5) There is no reason for death penalty appeals to take longer than 7 years. All death penalty appeals, direct and writ, should travel through the process concurrently, thereby giving every appellate issue 7 years of consideration through both state and federal courts. There is no need for endless repetition and delay. It currently takes about 12 years for appeals. A 5 year reduction in time, enforcement of the concurrent path for appeals and the end of repetitive appeals would save $200,000 per death penalty case.
Judges are the most serious roadblock in timely resolution. They can and do hold up cases, inexcusably, for long periods of time. Texas, which leads the nation in executions, by far, takes over 10 years, on average, to execute murderers. However, the state and federal courts, for that jurisdiction, handle many cases. Texas has the second lowest rate of the courts overturning death penalty cases. Could every other jurisdiction process appeals in 7-10 years. Of course, if the justices would allow it.
6) If a state is considering an execution moratorium, such costs should be included. All studies exclude the cost of a moratorium. A moratorium will add approximately $20,000/yr/inmate for a state's expenditures, for those inmates not executed during that period.
Justice
7) The main reason sentences are given is because jurors find that it is the most just punishment available. No state, concerned with justice, will base a decision on cost alone. If they did, all cases would be plea bargained and every crime would have a probation option.
Many more errors and omissions can be identified. The bottom line is that there are currently no studies which give us a true picture of the cost of death penalty cases Vs a maximum life sentence for equivalent cases.
There may be a cost benefit for the death penalty.
At the very least, with just this partial list of errors and omissions found in current death penalty studies, no one can use the cost issue as a reason for saving a jurisdiction money or for an execution moratorium.
1). "State Executions, Deterrence and the Incidence of Murder", Paul R. Zimmerman ([email protected]), March 3. 2003, Social Science Research Network, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID354680_code021216500.pdf?abstractid=354680
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail [email protected], 713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS, BBC and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
Pro death penalty sites
www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
www.dpinfo.com/
www.prodeathpenalty.com
http://www.prodeathpenalty.org/
http://www.yesdeathpenalty.com/ (Sweden)
www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html
www.vuac.org/capital
My focus has been on violent crime issues and what can be done, within the criminal justice and legislative systems, to lessen injury to the innocent and to prosecute the guilty. To accomplish that goal, involvement in community education, elections, legislation, victim's rights issues, including assistance in individual cases are all important.
http://www.dpinfo.com/cost_comparisons.htm
Death Penalty Cases Vs Equivalent Life Sentence Cases
by Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
In comparing the cost of death penalty cases to other sentences, the studies are woefully incomplete.
Generally, such studies have one or more of the following problems.
1) All studies exclude the cost of geriatric care, recently found to be $69,000/inmate/yr. A significant omission from life sentence costs.
2) All studies exclude the cost savings of the death penalty, which is the ONLY sentence which allows for a plea bargain to a maximum life sentence. Such plea bargains accrue as a cost benefit to the death penalty, such benefit being the cost of trials and appeals for every such plea bargain. The cost savings would be for trial and appeals, an amount estimated to be at least $1 million per case. Depending upon jurisdiction, this may result in a zero net cost for the death penalty, depending on the number of plea bargains Vs the number of death penalty trials, or an actual net cost benefit.
3) FCC economist Dr. Paul Zimmerman finds that executions result in a huge cost benefit to society. "Specifically, it is estimated that each state execution deters somewhere between 3 and 25 murders per year (14 being the average). Assuming that the value of human life is approximately $5 million {i.e. the average of the range estimates provided by Viscussi (1993)}, our estimates imply that society avoids losing approximately $70 million per year on average at the current rate of execution all else equal." The study used state level data from 1978 to 1997 for all 50 states (excluding Washington D.C.). (1)
That is a cost benefit of $70 million per execution. 6 additional, recent studies support the deterrent effect. Deterrence report upon request.
No cost study has included such calculations.
Although we find it inappropriate to put a dollar value on life, evidently this is not uncommon for economists, insurers, etc.
We know that living murderers are infinitely more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers. There is no doubt that executions do save innocent lives. What value do you put on the lives saved? Certainly not less than $5 million.
4) a) Some studies compare the cost of a death penalty case, including pre trial, trial, appeals and incarceration, to only the cost of incarceration for 40 years, excluding all trial costs and appeals, for a life sentence. The much cited Texas "study" does this. Hardly an apples to apples cost comparison.
b) The pure deception in some cost "studies" is overt. It has been claimed that it costs $3.2 million/execution in Florida. That "study" decided to add the cost of the entire death penalty system in Florida ($57 million), which included all of the death penalty cases and dividing that number by only the number of executions (18). One could just have easily stated that the cost of the estimated 200 death row inmates was $285,000 per case.
5) There is no reason for death penalty appeals to take longer than 7 years. All death penalty appeals, direct and writ, should travel through the process concurrently, thereby giving every appellate issue 7 years of consideration through both state and federal courts. There is no need for endless repetition and delay. It currently takes about 12 years for appeals. A 5 year reduction in time, enforcement of the concurrent path for appeals and the end of repetitive appeals would save $200,000 per death penalty case.
Judges are the most serious roadblock in timely resolution. They can and do hold up cases, inexcusably, for long periods of time. Texas, which leads the nation in executions, by far, takes over 10 years, on average, to execute murderers. However, the state and federal courts, for that jurisdiction, handle many cases. Texas has the second lowest rate of the courts overturning death penalty cases. Could every other jurisdiction process appeals in 7-10 years. Of course, if the justices would allow it.
6) If a state is considering an execution moratorium, such costs should be included. All studies exclude the cost of a moratorium. A moratorium will add approximately $20,000/yr/inmate for a state's expenditures, for those inmates not executed during that period.
Justice
7) The main reason sentences are given is because jurors find that it is the most just punishment available. No state, concerned with justice, will base a decision on cost alone. If they did, all cases would be plea bargained and every crime would have a probation option.
Many more errors and omissions can be identified. The bottom line is that there are currently no studies which give us a true picture of the cost of death penalty cases Vs a maximum life sentence for equivalent cases.
There may be a cost benefit for the death penalty.
At the very least, with just this partial list of errors and omissions found in current death penalty studies, no one can use the cost issue as a reason for saving a jurisdiction money or for an execution moratorium.
1). "State Executions, Deterrence and the Incidence of Murder", Paul R. Zimmerman ([email protected]), March 3. 2003, Social Science Research Network, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID354680_code021216500.pdf?abstractid=354680
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail [email protected], 713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS, BBC and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
Pro death penalty sites
www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
www.dpinfo.com/
www.prodeathpenalty.com
http://www.prodeathpenalty.org/
http://www.yesdeathpenalty.com/ (Sweden)
www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html
www.vuac.org/capital
My focus has been on violent crime issues and what can be done, within the criminal justice and legislative systems, to lessen injury to the innocent and to prosecute the guilty. To accomplish that goal, involvement in community education, elections, legislation, victim's rights issues, including assistance in individual cases are all important.
http://www.dpinfo.com/cost_comparisons.htm
InToTheRain
it's all about LOVE!
- Messages
- 1,180
- Reaction score
- 323
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
[PIE] In the United States alone there have been 4047 executions
since 1930, and 188 were from 1977-1996. In 1996, there were a total
of 15,168,100 arrests; 33,050 for forcible rape; 1,506,200 involving
drug violations and 19,020 for murder and non-negligent manslaughter.
The death penalty was enforced 45 times. The death penalty is an
expensive punishment, since 1976 the united states have spent 700
million dollars in it. Methods of the death penalty include lethal
injection, gas chamber, electric chair, hanging and fire squad. In a
1986 poll 70% of Americans favored the death penalty as a punishment
for murder.
There is some evidence, however that the death penalty is
effective in the deteration of crime. "If all those caught producing
addictive drugs, plus all of those caught selling addictive drugs in
our country were confronted with capital punishment administered
without recourse, by local authorities throughout our 50 states-then
gradually this intolerable situation would be ameliorated and
eventually conquered." (W.H. Long) in 1988, Arthur Bishop was
executed. During that year there were 47 murders. Before the date of
the execution there were 26 murders executed and after that there
were 21. (19% difference). In 1960, 56 there were 56 executions and
9,410 murders. In 1964 there were 15 executions and 9,250 murders. In
1969 to 1975 there were no executions and 35,100 murders. This
clearly shows that the number of murders rise and the number of
executions decrease. Also, Isaac Ehrlich concluded from his research
that every execution prevented 8 murders.
[/PIE]
since 1930, and 188 were from 1977-1996. In 1996, there were a total
of 15,168,100 arrests; 33,050 for forcible rape; 1,506,200 involving
drug violations and 19,020 for murder and non-negligent manslaughter.
The death penalty was enforced 45 times. The death penalty is an
expensive punishment, since 1976 the united states have spent 700
million dollars in it. Methods of the death penalty include lethal
injection, gas chamber, electric chair, hanging and fire squad. In a
1986 poll 70% of Americans favored the death penalty as a punishment
for murder.
There is some evidence, however that the death penalty is
effective in the deteration of crime. "If all those caught producing
addictive drugs, plus all of those caught selling addictive drugs in
our country were confronted with capital punishment administered
without recourse, by local authorities throughout our 50 states-then
gradually this intolerable situation would be ameliorated and
eventually conquered." (W.H. Long) in 1988, Arthur Bishop was
executed. During that year there were 47 murders. Before the date of
the execution there were 26 murders executed and after that there
were 21. (19% difference). In 1960, 56 there were 56 executions and
9,410 murders. In 1964 there were 15 executions and 9,250 murders. In
1969 to 1975 there were no executions and 35,100 murders. This
clearly shows that the number of murders rise and the number of
executions decrease. Also, Isaac Ehrlich concluded from his research
that every execution prevented 8 murders.
[/PIE]
wilberhum
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 4,348
- Reaction score
- 339
Those who believe that deterrence justifies the execution of certain offenders bear the burden of proving that the death penalty is a deterrent. The overwhelming conclusion from years of deterrence studies is that the death penalty is, at best, no more of a deterrent than a sentence of life in prison.
(more)
hose who believe that deterrence justifies the execution of certain offenders bear the burden of proving that the death penalty is a deterrent. The overwhelming conclusion from years of deterrence studies is that the death penalty is, at best, no more of a deterrent than a sentence of life in prison.
(more)
hose who believe that deterrence justifies the execution of certain offenders bear the burden of proving that the death penalty is a deterrent. The overwhelming conclusion from years of deterrence studies is that the death penalty is, at best, no more of a deterrent than a sentence of life in prison.
crayon
subhanAllah
- Messages
- 3,238
- Reaction score
- 719
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
"vengenace is sweet"
I support the death penalty, but I don't even think of it that way. Allah will deal with them even if we don't.
The reason I support it is this: If someone murders a person, and the city gathers to see that person being executed, do you not think, that the next time someone thinks of committing a murder, he will think twice?
It may seem extreme, but I challenge you to tell me that it would not affect others who later thought of committing the same crime.
I support the death penalty, but I don't even think of it that way. Allah will deal with them even if we don't.
The reason I support it is this: If someone murders a person, and the city gathers to see that person being executed, do you not think, that the next time someone thinks of committing a murder, he will think twice?
It may seem extreme, but I challenge you to tell me that it would not affect others who later thought of committing the same crime.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
Switzerland 0.00921351 murders per 1,000 people
Jamaica 0.324196 murders per 1,000 people
I am against the death penalty and I guess I'm not a strong supporter of life in prison either. Criminals should be treated medically and taken into er custody until they've rehabilitated, if necessary until their natural deaths.
Jamaica 0.324196 murders per 1,000 people
I am against the death penalty and I guess I'm not a strong supporter of life in prison either. Criminals should be treated medically and taken into er custody until they've rehabilitated, if necessary until their natural deaths.
AvarAllahNoor
IB Expert
- Messages
- 3,170
- Reaction score
- 257
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Sikhism
For criminals like Ian Huntley, Ian Brady, Yourkshire Ripper etc they should have the death penaly as there is no way they can ever be found not guilty of the crimes they committed! Saves tax payers money to!
Keltoi
IB Legend
- Messages
- 5,061
- Reaction score
- 463
It's a difficult question. I've sort of switched back and forth on this issue throughout my lifetime. I think I've come to the belief that the death penalty is warranted in certain cases, especially murder of children and cases of mass murder. To me the question of whether it stops others from committing the same crime is almost irrelevant. We know for a fact it will stop one individual from ever doing it again.
Woodrow
May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه
- Messages
- 17,217
- Reaction score
- 4,224
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
The Death penalty seldom is a deterrent,for future crimes. The emotional state and frame of mind of a potential mass murderer, rapist, etc. Removes any concept of fear of death from them. They have no value for human life not even their own and the thought they might be killed plays not part in their actions.
However, this does not rule out that in some cases the death penalty is the best choice. But, we make a mistake if we think it is for the purpose of reducing crime.
If the fear of death was a real deterrent for anything, not only would it deter criminals, it would also deter, soldiers, martyrs, explorers, etc.
It would be wonderful if the death penalty served as a deterrent to crime, the same principal could be used to completely eliminate wars, illegal occupation, terrorism etc. But the fear of dying has yet to prevent any of that.
However, this does not rule out that in some cases the death penalty is the best choice. But, we make a mistake if we think it is for the purpose of reducing crime.
If the fear of death was a real deterrent for anything, not only would it deter criminals, it would also deter, soldiers, martyrs, explorers, etc.
It would be wonderful if the death penalty served as a deterrent to crime, the same principal could be used to completely eliminate wars, illegal occupation, terrorism etc. But the fear of dying has yet to prevent any of that.
aamirsaab
On vacation.
- Messages
- 4,459
- Reaction score
- 1,229
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
So instead of wasting tax payers money aswell as risking another attack (rape, murder etc) let's kill the jerkholes. Afterall, the reason for a prison sentence is to PREVENT it from happening again right? So let's nip it in the bud - eliminate the root and the bugger won't grow again.
Keltoi
IB Legend
- Messages
- 5,061
- Reaction score
- 463
So instead of wasting tax payers money aswell as risking another attack (rape, murder etc) let's kill the jerkholes. Afterall, the reason for a prison sentence is to PREVENT it from happening again right? So let's nip it in the bud - eliminate the root and the bugger won't grow again.
Life in prison is probably the way to go in most cases of murder, but I think in the case of child rape and murder there has to be a zero tolerance policy. It obviously won't stop most of those who have this urge from carrying out these sick atrocities, but for those who have lost children to these animals it can help them at least find some semblance of closure.
AvarAllahNoor
IB Expert
- Messages
- 3,170
- Reaction score
- 257
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Sikhism
So instead of wasting tax payers money aswell as risking another attack (rape, murder etc) let's kill the jerkholes. Afterall, the reason for a prison sentence is to PREVENT it from happening again right? So let's nip it in the bud - eliminate the root and the bugger won't grow again.
It's practiced in the USA (some states) so why not re-introduced it here. The thought of these monsters no longer breathing the same air as us, would give a sense of satisfaction.
*Makes a petition
Omari
Elite Member
- Messages
- 251
- Reaction score
- 28
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Yes, I fully agree with you, however they're are files now that prohibit Capital Punishment because it "apparently" violates international human rights.
In Afghanistan, when I was a kid, I used to run around all over the city, and I would never be afraid of kidnapping or murder, but when the new democratic law took event the crime rates have hit the roof.
Thats evidence right there, from personal experience.
Peace
Omari
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
People who commit such tremendous acts are seriously ill. Most of them are not objectively responsible for their actions, they do it, because they simply "have" to...So instead of wasting tax payers money aswell as risking another attack (rape, murder etc) let's kill the jerkholes. Afterall, the reason for a prison sentence is to PREVENT it from happening again right? So let's nip it in the bud - eliminate the root and the bugger won't grow again.
This is not nazi Germany, we don't kill people, we treat them.
I think pedophile killers, rapists etc are less eglible for a death penalty than people who kill because of financial fiancial benefits.
I am opposed to the death penalty, mostly because it is irreversible, but should it be introduced it should ionly apply to cold-blooded murderers, serial killers etc.
I know the family of the victims must be frustrated to know the killer of tehir child, brother, daughter-in-law breathes the same air as they do, but I don't think the state should act upon the feelings of unstable, traumatized people...
AvarAllahNoor
IB Expert
- Messages
- 3,170
- Reaction score
- 257
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Sikhism
You can't treat a peadophile. They do what they do, because they think it's right! - Removal of genitals (as been said) will do no good, because they may not have the sexual organ, but the desire within shall still exist. Earadicate this evil! Hang them!! 
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
You can't fully treat them, but you can lock them up and/or mechanically/chemically reduce their sexual urge.You can't treat a peadophile. They do what they do, because they think it's right! - Removal of genitals (as been said) will do no good, because they may not have the sexual organ, but the desire within shall still exist. Earadicate this evil! Hang them!!
It is not their fault they're like that so they, by no means, should be killed!
Omari
Elite Member
- Messages
- 251
- Reaction score
- 28
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Yeah? well, if they ruin the life of an innocent person he deserves death, how will you recover the victim who will in most cases commit suicide, [in developing countries anyway.]
Peace omari
Mikayeel
IB Expert
- Messages
- 1,988
- Reaction score
- 597
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
The problem with that is most of the time if they are released( they will try their best to get out quickly by behaving well) they will carry on killing agian... and that is a big chance to take..
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
Well, I guess the death of the rapist/paedophile can be a consolation to the victim...but I don't think this is the reason we should introduce the death penalty. Life in prison is a better option, together with a full medical and psychiatric assistance for the victim.
People rarely think that people to be executed have families too. IMO death penalty causes more trouble and more suffering alltogether than (life in) prison.
Last edited: