Decline of Masculinity

[tango92]

i think this is a good place to mention a hadith on another recent thread

"Abu Hurairah narrated that Allah's Messenger Muhammad said: "Prophet Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying: 'He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.

Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled. Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying: '0 stone! Give me my garment!' till he reached a group of the children of Israel who saw him naked then and found him in the best shape of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there, and Moses took and put on his garment and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four, or five marks. This was what Allah the Almighty refers to in His saying: 0 you who believe! Be not like those who annoyed Moses, but Allah cleared him of that which they alleged, and he was honorable in Allah's sight! Surah 33: 69 "

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 616

so yh, its ok for men to work out and what not, with the intention of becoming strong. but we should remain extremely modest and shy if we wish to gain max honour in the sight of Allah swt.

on another note i feel the decline in masculinity is heavily influenced (especially in younger high school / college types) by females who are no longer in need of strong men but hunt down handsome and sensitive men instead. cause women are seeing an increasing role as providers of the family. thats why men are turning to fashion, although still trying to remain "cool" and "gangster" lol.

 

[h-n]

I like to add, that when Males are not being religious they become less of a Man.

It would be a nightmare in this world, if all the Males were strongly built, tall, they would go around being even more arrogantly, think to have sex with anyone, just because they are Masculine with little or no opposition etc.

Look at the sight of Males who turn their backs on Islam, the hindus look so worse, poor to call themselves Men and they worship idols.

The Males who run amock, going to nightclubs, drinking, they would behave a lot worse if they were strongly built and tall etc.

So I thank Allah, he is Mighty, Wise.

 

[h-n]

I dont agree with definitions of manhood that are being thrown around here.

Manhood is about being self-dependent, an intellectual, a leader, a commander, a manager, a dreamer, and a doer.

???? So what if someone is a Manager and he goes to Hell, what is he???

A Man going to Paradise is not the same as one going to Hell.

What makes a Man, is he who worships the one God, Allah, remembers the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. Which is what all the Prophets did, they were not accepted by people because they looked good, being intelligent etc. They were accepted as Allah's servants.

This is exactly why the women in Paradise are happy to get married to him, as well as Muslim women in this world. We don't get married to a Man because he has a flash car, and a nice house.

 

[Woodrow]

I dont agree with definitions of manhood that are being thrown around here.

Manhood is about being self-dependent, an intellectual, a leader, a commander, a manager, a dreamer, and a doer.

Akhi

Am I correct in assuming that by manager you mean it in the concept of self management. Meaning a man who plans for time for prayer, schedules his work load to keep a balance between adequate income and time with family.A well rounded person who lives a productive, quality and pious life all balanced to the levels of importance for each responsibility and duty.

Not the concept of the job title of Manager.

 

[Al-Indunisiy]

Akhi

Am I correct in assuming that by manager you mean it in the concept of self management. Meaning a man who plans for time for prayer, schedules his work load to keep a balance between adequate income and time with family.A well rounded person who lives a productive, quality and pious life all balanced to the levels of importance for each responsibility and duty.

Not the concept of the job title of Manager.

I think yes, since what he listed are collectively general attributes.

 

[Karl]

So is anybody else seeing a decline of Masculinity???

Yes, but I don't think it's mainly the same men becoming more effemiate, but rather more, as change in demographics. I think people are the same now as they as were, but there are shifts in representation and popularity of races. In 1950s America it was the alpha male Germanic races which were popular. The big square jawed wide shouldered hunks were very popular. Some icons would have been John Wayne, Charlton Heston, Gregory Peck, Rock Hudson, Marlon Brandow and the popularity Superman heroe figures etc. And later figures would have been Hasslehoff, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Dolph Lundgren etc. Country and Western singers such as Glen Cambell, Jim Reeves, Johny Cash etc. These were real looking men. Now it's not like that. Instead effeminate looking "men" such as Johny Depp, McCully Culken, and pop stars such as Hanson and Justin Beiber are all the rave. Why it's like that I don't know and it puzzles me why so many females melt over them. It would seem that they were lesbian or something. lol. The real looking men still ARE out there but they are off the popularity radar and effeminate races have become popular (the Romas, Semites, Indians, Latinos and many other Asian races etc). These races of course existed in the 1950s but were off the popularity scale as they were considered un-American. So yes it's not that the same family lines have become more effeminate over time but more a shift in racial demographics.

Another current trend in Hollywood is their representation of "Major" aged people (the legally imposed magic age of 18 and over) as being of more rugged rustic masculine races while their offspring or "minors" under 18 tend to be represented by effeminate looking races. It's a very wierd phenomenen of unrealistic fantasy and not of the real world, and I'm not sure why Hollywood likes to create this unrealistic and anomalous perception.

 

[Salahudeen]

Interesting points karl, I wonder how men/women would be if Hollywood/Bollywood never existed and there was no media influence in our lives.

 

[cat eyes]

whats wrong with that dress of the brother?

Isnt males awrah from navel till knees?

I think wearing a t-shirt and shorts is quite a humble dress. Compared to lets say suit.

we are not meant to resemble the kafir.

Shalwer kameez will suit you fine. don't worry

 

[Woodrow]

walaikum asslam,

yes bro that is what I meant. A person who manages his religious and worldly affairs with justice. A person who is good in devoting his time to duties according to their priorities.

A very necessary trait of true masculinity. The word man is included in manager. It is essential for a man to be a manager and be able to manage his manliness.

 

[titus]

What makes a Man, is he who worships the one God, Allah, remembers the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. Which is what all the Prophets did, they were not accepted by people because they looked good, being intelligent etc. They were accepted as Allah's servants.

Then what does that have to do with chemicals or voice changes that you mentioned in your original post? I am confused as it seems you have changed your definition of masculinity.

 

[h-n]

Then what does that have to do with chemicals or voice changes that you mentioned in your original post? I am confused as it seems you have changed your definition of masculinity.

See post 23.

 

[titus]

In post 23 you seem to insinuate that Muslim men are bigger and stronger than other religions because they are religious. Is this a correct interpretation?

In the original post you link to articles that have nothing to do with religion, but with chemicals and other such things.

You then state that your definition of a man is a Muslim.

I am trying to put the pieces together but it's not quite working. What exactly is your point, and what do the chemicals mentioned in your original post have to do with religion? And what does the size of a man have to do with his religion or the deepness of his "cool" voice?

 

[jimbo123]

I wanted to add something to do this.

I've noticed that men in this day and age, when it comes to exercise are more concerned with how muscles look as opposed to the functionality. I guess this is due to the media putting a lot of pressure on men to have 6 pack abs and massive biceps. Can't help but think that there was a time that men exercised for functionality first and and for mirror muscles second.

 

[Woodrow]

I wanted to add something to do this.

I've noticed that men in this day and age, when it comes to exercise are more concerned with how muscles look as opposed to the functionality. I guess this is due to the media putting a lot of pressure on men to have 6 pack abs and massive biceps. Can't help but think that there was a time that men exercised for functionality first and and for mirror muscles second.

Was a time in the very recent past, there was no need for exercise programs or gyms or the like. Work took care of that and even better it developed the muscles we needed to excel in our jobs.

Just my opinion but for a man to develop unneeded muscles is a bit like teaching a gold fish to ride a bicycle. Might look nice, but what purpose does it serve?

 

[jimbo123]

Was a time in the very recent past, there was no need for exercise programs or gyms or the like. Work took care of that and even better it developed the muscles we needed to excel in our jobs.

Just my opinion but for a man to develop unneeded muscles is a bit like teaching a gold fish to ride a bicycle. Might look nice, but what purpose does it serve?

http://www.bakkah.net/articles/strongbeliever.htm

 

[Woodrow]

http://www.bakkah.net/articles/strongbeliever.htm

Except that overall muscle building, especially that for appearance does not equate to greater strength. A person who works the fields is going to need greater strength in the areas of leg and back development. A person who is a laborer of metals is going to need the greatest development in the arms. A carpenter will have greater development in one arm. This does mean we ignore all muscles, but we need to concentrate on the development of those required for our task.

A person whose required strength for lifting considerable weights is going to have different muscle development than say a person whose strength is in running. To develop muscles for the sake of appearance, may result in an aesthetically pleasing body, but it may not be one of any usable strength. If you are stranded in the jungle it would be far better to have the greatest strength in the area needed for survival.

A man who has developed the muscles for prayer will have a different appearance than the man who has developed all of his muscles for the sake of appearance.

The well developed body builder makes me think the man has spent too much time on the gym mat and not enough on the prayer mat. While a man with all muscles developed may have some strength in all areas, it also send the message he has not spent the time needed to develop his needed strength to full capacity.

This concept of body building is of value only for the visual pleasure of members of the opposite gender and it is an appearance pushed on us through the media by the advertising industry. The media world is pushing sexual attraction and that comes to be the only strength the concept of body building is developing. A man all too often works out in the gym not for the purpose of attaining needed strength, but for the very same reason young girls engage in breast development exercises.

Exercise, yes. but spend the most exercise developing the needed strength and not to arouse a person of the opposite gender. Conentrate first on exercising the muscles needed for prayer, second on those needed for survival which means to excel in work, and ability to protect ones deen, family and the ummah. Forget trying to look like the Madison Avenue concept of a strong man. A strong man will often look much different.

 

[jimbo123]

Except that overall muscle building, especially that for appearance does not equate to greater strength. A person who works the fields is going to need greater strength in the areas of leg and back development. A person who is a laborer of metals is going to need the greatest development in the arms. A carpenter will have greater development in one arm. This does mean we ignore all muscles, but we need to concentrate on the development of those required for our task.

A person whose required strength for lifting considerable weights is going to have different muscle development than say a person whose strength is in running. To develop muscles for the sake of appearance, may result in an aesthetically pleasing body, but it may not be one of any usable strength. If you are stranded in the jungle it would be far better to have the greatest strength in the area needed for survival.

A man who has developed the muscles for prayer will have a different appearance than the man who has developed all of his muscles for the sake of appearance.

The well developed body builder makes me think the man has spent too much time on the gym mat and not enough on the prayer mat. While a man with all muscles developed may have some strength in all areas, it also send the message he has not spent the time needed to develop his needed strength to full capacity.

This concept of body building is of value only for the visual pleasure of members of the opposite gender and it is an appearance pushed on us through the media by the advertising industry. The media world is pushing sexual attraction and that comes to be the only strength the concept of body building is developing. A man all too often works out in the gym not for the purpose of attaining needed strength, but for the very same reason young girls engage in breast development exercises.

Exercise, yes. but spend the most exercise developing the needed strength and not to arouse a person of the opposite gender. Conentrate first on exercising the muscles needed for prayer, second on those needed for survival which means to excel in work, and ability to protect ones deen, family and the ummah. Forget trying to look like the Madison Avenue concept of a strong man. A strong man will often look much different.

I don't know if you read my original post (#33)? I said lots of guys are into bodybuilding as opposed to building functional strength. I never said that it's the right/wrong thing to do although getting built will happen if you exercise and eat right.

On another note, who's to say you won't need that strength? If you're approached by multiple muggers, you'll need the strength to fight them off. If you're at the edge of a cliff, you'll need the back/arm development to lift yourself up. If you're in a locked room you need strong legs to kick it down. Why not improve strength in all areas?

 

[jimbo123]

This concept of body building is of value only for the visual pleasure of members of the opposite gender and it is an appearance pushed on us through the media by the advertising industry. The media world is pushing sexual attraction and that comes to be the only strength the concept of body building is developing. A man all too often works out in the gym not for the purpose of attaining needed strength, but for the very same reason young girls engage in breast development exercises.

Of course it depends on the intention and doing it to arouse the opposite gender is wrong. But I wonder... what if you are married and are doing it to arouse your partner?

 

[جوري]

It is because robes are not attached to any one single time period, and are associated with times in which there was not much technology that many of the characters wear robes in that movie. That is the same reason that you see the wizards in the Harry Potter movies wearing robes (even the bad guys), because robes are often associated (in the West anyway) with a lack of technology.

I was in meeting on Wednesday when they introduced an orthopedic surgeon from Nigeria (Muslim) who would be spending a month with us in exchange of ideas and techniques, he was dressed like this:

no one seemed to care about his garb, but he did look to me and smiled saying, he didn't think he'd find anyone he can relate to on this new endeavor. I am not sure where you get the 'lack of technology bit' as an association with clothing.. in fact I think it is funny.. thanks for offering me a hearty guffaw!
I don't think clothing has anything to do with technology or lack thereof , primitiveness or lack thereof, smarts or lack thereof. masculinity or lack thereof..
What it is, is a personal statement that says something about who you are and how you view yourself.. it doesn't subtract from your IQ, your abilities, or your masculinity...

I don't personally define a person by their clothes, but they do leave us with an impression on the individual. I personally value someone who is covered more than one who isn't.. one who is covered will force you to view him or her for something aside from the clothes. someone who isn't has one thing to offer, at least first hand!

all the best

 

[Woodrow]

don't know if you read my original post (#33)? I said lots of guys are into bodybuilding as opposed to building functional strength. I never said that it's the right/wrong thing to do although getting built will happen if you exercise and eat right.

Simple answer is Yes, that is true.

On another note, who's to say you won't need that strength? If you're approached by multiple muggers, you'll need the strength to fight them off. If you're at the edge of a cliff, you'll need the back/arm development to lift yourself up. If you're in a locked room you need strong legs to kick it down. Why not improve strength in all areas?

In all cases it is far better a person learn to use the strength they have and not think in terms of developing the ultimate body. We need to take care of our bodies and keep them healthy, but not become worshipers of our bodies.

In nearly all instances of necessity and self protection it is the small lithe person who is the most proficient. A large, strong powerful enemy is much easier to defeat than a small framed person, who has the knowledge of fighting skills. The most powerful fighters and most capable of standing up against multiple fighters are not the large built muscular ones. It is the small fast ones who have developed muscles needed for speed and agility, not power and have knowledge in hand to hand fighting. Back in my younger days when I was somewhat obnoxious and antagonistic I looked for opportunities when I could get into a physical confrontations with multiple large, muscular assailants. I also learned that I could not defeat a small framed man who had the ability to fight. The worse beating I ever got in my life was at the hands of a man who looked so skinny he could have been considered anorexic. The fight only lasted a matter of seconds before I was knocked unconscious and then beat into a bloody mess by the little rascal.

Develop your body to it's fullest functional level, but be certain to develop more the muscles you will need most. Body building tends to concentrate more on spending equal time on each muscle group. That view point means we have less time to spend on the fullest development of the muscles we know we will need to use.