Defence minister urges more British Muslims to join armed forces

[wth1257]

what do you think should be done with people who publically shun the armed forces of their country of residence at a home coming parade, calling them terorists, cowards and such?

That would depend on the country. In the United States they have every right to do so. Thoreau gave a scathing description on what sort of man a Marine was in his "Civil Disobedience". I suppose at one point some reactionary would accuse him of alternative loyalties and advocate his expulsion from the nation, much like Mark Twain's attacks on the rising tide of American Imperialism. Fortunately such forces did not succeed and now they stand as iconic figures of America political thought. One of the high points of an advanced liberal democracy is that the armed forces are not sacrosanct, nor are expansionist agendas. The idea that Muslims ought to leave because they refuse to participate in the hegemonic neo colonialism laying waste to the Muslim world is simply appalling. If it was the 1940's and the UK was facing an existential threat from a foreign power I would agree that every citizen had a duty to help defend their land and populace from such a threat. That is not the case today though.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

That would depend on the country. In the United States they have every right to do so. Thoreau gave a scathing description on what sort of man a Marine was in his "Civil Disobedience". I suppose at one point some reactionary would accuse him of alternative loyalties and advocate his expulsion from the nation, much like Mark Twain's attacks on the rising tide of American Imperialism. Fortunately such forces did not succeed and now they stand as iconic figures of America political thought. One of the high points of an advanced liberal democracy is that the armed forces are not sacrosanct, nor are expansionist agendas. The idea that Muslims ought to leave because they refuse to participate in the hegemonic neo colonialism laying waste to the Muslim world is simply appalling. If it was the 1940's and the UK was facing an existential threat from a foreign power I would agree that every citizen had a duty to help defend their land and populace from such a threat. That is not the case today though.

I completely agree except for the first part, which I'm not so sure about myself. I support the freedom of speech, which of ranges from writing a political article to drawing cartoons of some prophet to, as in this case, insulting the soldiers of your country of residence. But on the other hand what these people have done feels so terribly wrong that I would have deported this instance. Though I am aware I can't base the legilation of what I feel.
It's Muslims who constantly tell the world how freedom of speech has limits and should be used responsibly and at the same time you get this..

 

[Muezzin]

I completely agree except for the first part, which I'm not so sure about myself. I support the freedom of speech, which of ranges from writing a political article to drawing cartoons of some prophet to, as in this case, insulting the soldiers of your country of residence. But on the other hand what these people have done feels so terribly wrong that I would have deported this instance. Though I am aware I can't base the legilation of what I feel.
It's Muslims who constantly tell the world how freedom of speech has limits and should be used responsibly and at the same time you get this..

I for one felt those particular protesters were being silly and offensive for the sake of being silly and offensive. The returning soldiers were the wrong target for such a protest in any case. Plus, it looked like it was about to cause a fight.

So, in my humble-yet-annoying opinion - Danish cartoons: Abuse of free speech

Silly protest against returning soldiers: Abuse of free speech

 

[Dawud_uk]

I for one felt those particular protesters were being silly and offensive for the sake of being silly and offensive. The returning soldiers were the wrong target for such a protest in any case. Plus, it looked like it was about to cause a fight.

So, in my humble-yet-annoying opinion - Danish cartoons: Abuse of free speech

Silly protest against returning soldiers: Abuse of free speech

then your humble opinion is in this case wrong,

these brothers are the most sincere brothers i know, they go up and down the country doing dawah stalls, talks, study circles, calling to Allah. most of the dawah stalls i know of have links with them.

when the brother was assulted in leicester picking up his kids from school we knew straight away who we could call upon and ask for help, subhanallah more of these people you label as silly and trouble makers turned up than people from my local masjid.

 

[Muezzin]

then your humble opinion is in this case wrong,

An opinion in this case cannot be wrong. It can be stupid.

these brothers are the most sincere brothers i know, they go up and down the country doing dawah stalls, talks, study circles, calling to Allah. most of the dawah stalls i know of have links with them.

when the brother was assulted in leicester picking up his kids from school we knew straight away who we could call upon and ask for help, subhanallah more of these people you label as silly and trouble makers turned up than people from my local masjid.

I think they were the wrong targets (the right targets would be the politicians who sent them into combat in the first place), and I think it was about to start a fight. I don't think that is right.

But what do I know?

I apologise if I offended you or your friends.

(Many of my posts = abuse of free speech)

 

[Dawud_uk]

An opinion in this case cannot be wrong. It can be stupid.


I think they were the wrong targets (the right targets would be the politicians who sent them into combat in the first place), and I think it was about to start a fight. I don't think that is right.

But what do I know?

I apologise if I offended you or your friends.

(Many of my posts = abuse of free speech)

akhi,

it wasnt because they were my friends, if you check my other posts you will see i do try to defend the honour of my brothers and sisters when they are slandered and cant answer back.

it is like some people i know accuse islamic board of being saudi government following versions of salafi or following them, but i try to stick up for the brothers on here and tell them only a few are like that.

on the other point you make, i dont believe they were the right target for a number of reasons.

first of all it is a lie to say they had no choice but to go where the government sent them,

they had a choice not to sign up for job where they knew they would be killing people for money, anyone who kills for money is worse than a prostitute.

or they are nationalists, the motivations of seeing which dog pack's alpha male can pee up the tree the highest.

or they are truly believing in pushing their values on muslims at the end of the gun, in which case they are worse than either prostitutes or dogs.

anyone who goes and kills our brothers and sisters deserves our contempt and hatred much more than the general enmity we should give to the disbelievers in general, they are much worse.

this is in the same way that the mujahideen are much better than the general muslim, the kuffar who physically fight are much worse than the general kuffar, they are the ones who kill, rape and torture.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

If I had known that being in a country like the US would REQUIRE me to fight in their military, I would have packed up and left.

In reality, they can urge me all they want but I'm not going to fight for a government that doesn't have Islamic goals.

"Oh but you are safe here why don't you do your part,"

I give my taxes.
I don't break the law.
I contribute to society's well being by volunteering and etc.

That's doing my part.

Killing wasn't in the job description.

 

[Uthman]

Greetings Thinker, This was not the only reason for the Jizyah (tax) so that reason should not be looked at in isolation. This sums it up perfectly in my opinion:

The wisdom behind the tax/jizyah paid by non-Muslims to the Islamic state was fairness. This is for two reasons:

First, Muslims were paying zakah (the annual charity) to the Islamic state, which was used for all sorts of services and social welfare. Zakah is an Islamic act of worship, but it is only for Muslims. It was fair to make non-Muslim citizens of the same state pay a similar (in fact, smaller) amount as a tax, since zakah is not taken from them as it is taken from Muslims. Jizyah was calculated in different ways throughout different eras (a certain amount of money, certain percentage of the crops, etc), but it was consistently less than the zakah, which every Muslim had to pay anyway.

In addition to that, this tax was paid in exchange of protection of these non-Muslim communities (i.e., military protection) and exemption of their men from joining the Islamic army. At that time, this was a necessary and fair measure given all the wars that the Islamic state was going through based on religious divides. It was not fair to ask these non-Muslim citizens to fight with Muslims against fellow believers of their same religion.

Source​

Notice the emboldened part above. Under Islamic rule, it was considered unfair to ask Non-Muslim citizens to fight against fellow believers of their same religion.

 

[aamirsaab]

Seeing as we're living in the techno age, I think we should resolve our wars and disputes over a game of halo 3.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Seeing as we're living in the techno age, I think we should resolve our wars and disputes over a game of halo 3.

Halo 3 pshhh.... BattleField Bad Company is where it's at! Destructible environments ftw!

Though if you insist, I'll make you eat my Covenant plasma!